Willow one-shot "Goddesses and Monsters"

[Jaz ♀♀]

coolness! thanks for showing us that!

[Emmie]

Wow. I love the top panel of the Willow/Kennedy kiss. The colors, the expressions, the angle that implies that Kennedy is the initiator of the embrace. So well done.

[weredog]

I can not stand Moline's work. I find it completely sloppy. The proportions are always off, always differentiating from panel to panel.

I don't understand how his penciling pleases (some) people. Care to share?

[wenxina]

Moline's linework is a lot more quirky than the other artists we've had on S8, thus far. Well... except for perhaps the guys who drew the "Tales..." oneshot, but that's more of a companion piece to S8 than S8 proper, but I digress.
However, his work in Fray was gorgeous, but then again, no likenesses to master. Moline's strength is not his likenesses but rather his gift of conveying motion and very dynamic scenes. For an example in S8, look at the opening sequence of #17, where Mel and her sister are flying above the city. That's his strength.
The proportions in his work are the same as when he worked on Fray; they're always very quirky looking. There are moments when Moline does nail likenesses, or at least the essence of the character. His Kennedy is one such example. She does bear a resemblance to the actress, but her mannerisms are what makes her believable.

However, that said, Jeanty's characters have a lot more subtlety in them. Their expressions, mannerisms, etc are usually a lot more nuanced than Moline's. Given the stiffer looking art of Cliff Richards and Moline's whimsy, Jeanty kinda falls between the two, with good likenesses, but characters that are animated.

[Hellbound Hyperion]

Dec 22, 2009 13:04:11 GMT -5 wenxina said:

Moline's linework is a lot more quirky than the other artists we've had on S8, thus far. Well... except for perhaps the guys who drew the "Tales..." oneshot, but that's more of a companion piece to S8 than S8 proper, but I digress.
However, his work in Fray was gorgeous, but then again, no likenesses to master. Moline's strength is not his likenesses but rather his gift of conveying motion and very dynamic scenes. For an example in S8, look at the opening sequence of #17, where Mel and her sister are flying above the city. That's his strength.
The proportions in his work are the same as when he worked on Fray; they're always very quirky looking. There are moments when Moline does nail likenesses, or at least the essence of the character. His Kennedy is one such example. She does bear a resemblance to the actress, but her mannerisms are what makes her believable.

However, that said, Jeanty's characters have a lot more subtlety in them. Their expressions, mannerisms, etc are usually a lot more nuanced than Moline's. Given the stiffer looking art of Cliff Richards and Moline's whimsy, Jeanty kinda falls between the two, with good likenesses, but characters that are animated.

Uhhh pretty much all of this. (lolz you gots an A-plus Xi! you so smarts )

Although I think I'm finding myself to be more a fan of Moline's work than Jeanty's. This may be just a holdover from being a decade-old Daredevil reader, but I prefer dynamic panels to the more subtle storytelling that pretty much IS Buffy. Of course, that's probably one reason why Jeanty is the lead artist here and not Moline.

[wenxina]

Dec 22, 2009 18:13:32 GMT -5 Hellbound Hyperion said:

Uhhh pretty much all of this. (lolz you gots an A-plus Xi! you so smarts )

Although I think I'm finding myself to be more a fan of Moline's work than Jeanty's. This may be just a holdover from being a decade-old Daredevil reader, but I prefer dynamic panels to the more subtle storytelling that pretty much IS Buffy. Of course, that's probably one reason why Jeanty is the lead artist here and not Moline.

The thing I appreciate about Jeanty's best work is that he understands dynamic panels too. "A Beautiful Sunset" illustrates this fantastically. The panels with Buffy doing some extreme parkour, those are some fabulous pieces of work. And then, he totally switches it around, conveying the tender moment between Buffy and Satsu, before Buffy kicks Satsu into the fray.
I will say that the best panels in terms of subtlety for Jeanty would still be the two of Gigi's face, when she dies (in #9). Two almost identical panels, yet so very different.

[Hellbound Hyperion]

Dec 22, 2009 18:55:28 GMT -5 wenxina said:

Dec 22, 2009 18:13:32 GMT -5 Hellbound Hyperion said:

Uhhh pretty much all of this. (lolz you gots an A-plus Xi! you so smarts )

Although I think I'm finding myself to be more a fan of Moline's work than Jeanty's. This may be just a holdover from being a decade-old Daredevil reader, but I prefer dynamic panels to the more subtle storytelling that pretty much IS Buffy. Of course, that's probably one reason why Jeanty is the lead artist here and not Moline.

The thing I appreciate about Jeanty's best work is that he understands dynamic panels too. "A Beautiful Sunset" illustrates this fantastically. The panels with Buffy doing some extreme parkour, those are some fabulous pieces of work. And then, he totally switches it around, conveying the tender moment between Buffy and Satsu, before Buffy kicks Satsu into the fray.
I will say that the best panels in terms of subtlety for Jeanty would still be the two of Gigi's face, when she dies (in #9). Two almost identical panels, yet so very different.

Oo absolutely, Jeanty has done some great dynamic panels no doubt (heck, I just wanna cuddle up with "A Beautiful Sunset" every night <3). I guess I've just always felt something visually more appealing to me in Moline's stuff than on Jeanty's, and I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it's something subtle, unconscious, psychological that I haven't figured out yet - but honestly, who wants to solve this Sudoku brain of mine? (Seriously. The last girl who tried is in a psych ward. True story. Kind of.) It might also not even be the pencils at all - could be inks, or colors. When I get access to my books again, I'll compare ToYL/Fray and something what might be considered Jeanty's better works in the season (Long Way Home? No Future For You? I'm also a big fan of #28, Retreat Part 3!).

[Wyndam]

I can already tell, after reading this, that this issue is going to have some polarizing opinions. There are things it did well, and things that didn't quite work.

So what worked? For me, Saga Vasuki (a.k.a. Aluwyn) finally became a 3-dimensional character. She has a personality, a more fleshed out history, and was very much humanized in a lot of respects. The reasoning for Willow choosing her over a more traditional guide was also excellent, since it mirrors the fact that Willow has never been a traditional witch in the first place.

Some will consider this a fault, but it is nice to know that Tara is 100% officially dead and buried. She was literally wiped away in this, and I'm happy for it. I never wanted Tara to return, and Willow being the one to put the kibosh in the possibility and fan speculation was pretty much awesome.

I say this a lot, but I love Moline. As with TOYL, I could stare at his art all day long. His style worked very well for this, as he is a bit more abstract and stylized than Georges, and this issue was all about the abstract. His cover also looks awesome, and Kennedy just looks damn sexy. ;D

So what didn't work? Well this issue didn't really provide many answers, which is what people were looking forward to the most. Perhaps more will be made clear after re-examing some past issues (those with Saga, the Elementals, etc.), but right now, I think the lack and any big revelations or anything will definitely polarize the readers.

Joss's writing was great though, and it is definitely a treat to have him on writing duties for this issue and the next, I'm just not sure what sort of impact this will have on the Season as a whole.

[Emmie]

*flails* This issue was awesome. I'll share more thoughts in the review I'm co-writing with Xi.

Wyn, I think the point of this issue was to set-up the Aluwyn/Willow relational dynamic. And I've got one thing to remind you of - Kennedy died. But only for a little while. Now remember how Aluwyn was trying to get her henchmen to corner Willow so she could ally with the "most powerful witch of her time"? How much you wanna bet that Aluwyn is the reason Kennedy died and the reason that Kennedy is now alive? And that Willow is in her debt?

Oh, yeah. Willow's been keeping a whole LOT of secrets. And I'm betting they're about to unravel in the upcoming issues. Most important of all, I'm remembering Willow's line in Anywhere But Here: "I won't betray you. Any more than I have."

That line - it could mean she's already betrayed Buffy. With Aluwyn. And Whedon's already set up that Willow regrets choosing Buffy at the cost of Tara. I'll lay down cold hard cash that this time, Willow chooses Kennedy over Buffy. And that it was all set up by Aluwyn as a trap to ally herself with Willow, the most powerful witch of her time.

[Wyndam]

Dec 23, 2009 18:17:20 GMT -5 Emmie said:

Wyn, I think the point of this issue was to set-up the Aluwyn/Willow relational dynamic. And I've got one thing to remind you of - Kennedy died. But only for a little while. Now remember how Aluwyn was trying to get her henchmen to corner Willow so she could ally with the "most powerful witch of her time"? How much you wanna bet that Aluwyn is the reason Kennedy died and the reason that Kennedy is now alive? And that Willow is in her debt?

If true, it will be interesting to see how this plays out. Saga was established pretty quickly to be an untrustworthy character, and even though Willow realizes that and accepts it (and encourages it, by choosing Saga), this could all blow up in Willow's face eventually. Not knowing what someone is planning or what an ultimate goal is because everything they say is a lie...well it's almost like jumping into a bottomless lake where anything could be waiting at the bottom.

[dragonweaver]

While I enjoyed reading the issue and was happy to see a more in depth perspective on Saga, I still feel underwhelmed. I guess I had too many expectations, but mostly I was really hoping the issue would do one of two things: either fill in some history that would answer questions and flesh out past issues OR help build a foundation for future issues.

Only time will tell if it accomplished the latter, but right now it feels like "Goddesses and Monsters" is a glorified seat warmer...something to just tide us over until the real story continues.

[AndrewCrossett]

I liked this issue, though I'll need to give it a closer re-read later.

I was surprised a bit by Aluwyn's persona (a chaos spirit) and her relationship with Willow (it was she who had to audition for Willow, not the other way around).

Not sure how well Will's decision to knowingly hook up with a chaos demon will work out, but I assume she knows what she's doing.

The fact that Aluwyn is a self-admitted liar makes it interesting to look back at her previous appearances in that light.

And yeah, the hardcore Willow/Tara fans are going to be very unhappy with the imagery of Willow wiping her away.

I liked the Elementals... especially the Mathematics one who weeps numbers and symbols. And I liked Aluwyn's motley crew of spirit friends/allies.

No sign of how Willow and Aluwyn's relationship became sexual (if it did). And no explanation of Kennedy's mystical death.

[Wyndam]

Dec 23, 2009 20:18:17 GMT -5 AndrewCrossett said:

I liked the Elementals... especially the Mathematics one who weeps numbers and symbols. And I liked Aluwyn's motley crew of spirit friends/allies.

I agree. Like Saga, the Elementals were made a bit more 3-D as well, which was very cool. Saga's team was also neat. I really liked the ending when the fly thing showed up and Saga yelled at it. Joss really introduced a ton of great characters in this issue, and heavily fleshed out those we have seen before. Not bad for a one-shot. I do wish we were getting more though.

[Jaz ♀♀]

I was one of the Willow/Tara fans that did want to see Tara come back some how but as Wyndam said that it was Willow herself that wiped the image and showed us that she has for sure moved on and Tara is 100% gone and not coming back, i wasn't too sad but instead it gave me the definite closure that i really really needed to see for me to put them as a couple and Tara specifically at rest ever since she died. So i too was happy to see that and also to see a beautiful image of Tara.


I loved this issue!! the only problem i had with it is that it wasn't longer!!

Also when the hell did Willow grew so bold as to jump out of the water and walk around naked in front of crowd of 4 and not be shy??? ....i'm very glad to see that she sees herself as the beautiful witch she is but i kinda miss the shy Willow.

[Smashed]

I'm one of the Willow/Tara fans that wasn't happy.

I've already been turned off enough by the series, and this kind of sealed the deal.

Oh well. Other than that, the issue was very interesting. I liked the art more than I thought I would.

[Hallow Thorn]

The best part about this is Tara.

[Iceeh★]

I'm scared to read this now Even though I do so love Moline's artwork.

[alex_krycek]

I thought the art work to this issue was great. Story-wise, I suppose I anticipated that more questions would be answered, namely to how the betrayal between Buffy and Willow connects to Twilight.

[Brian Lynch]

The art was insanely great.

[wenxina]

Dec 23, 2009 18:17:20 GMT -5 Emmie said:

*flails* This issue was awesome. I'll share more thoughts in the review I'm co-writing with Xi.

Yeah... I'll get on that ASAP. Currently stuck in a house with unreliable internet, bratty kids with narcissistic personality disorders, horrible plumbing and bathroom hygiene (I spent this morning scrubbing the tub, and toilet - shit crust that required some elbow grease - with Comet). In short, I'm in in-law hell. Sorry about the delay... I'll try to write it some today, and send you a draft. Really wanted to tinker about with Google Wave this time, but perhaps we'll debut that effort for #31.