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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 3, 2010 21:37:52 GMT -5
A very good issue, but a very sad one. SO many dead Slayers. I guess we can assume they're all dead, except for the ones with Buffy. By several orders of magnitude, this is the bloodiest thing Joss has ever plotted.
If there's any consideration of "redemption" or "greater good" around Twilight after this, I'm going to be one very unhappy individual. I want to see him dead... and if it means the end of the world, so much the better. Humanity has done nothing throughout this season except prove themselves worthy of destruction. I know that won't be the outcome, but it's the one I'd prefer to see.
Of course, Buffy can't possibly be gullible enough to think Amy, Warren and General are on the level. They can't be stupid enough to think she is, and Twilight certainly can't.
I'm proud and frightened to say I got all of the pop culture references.
As for the Scythe, I think we've seen the last of it. I think Buffy IS the Scythe now... the Slayer essence resides within her. It may be that killing her now would de-power any surviving Slayers in the world and end the line permanently.
If I were any good at anticipating Joss's story developments, I'd say logically now this will lead to a big mano-a-mano battle between Buffy and Twilight (or the Bigger Bad behind him), and that in order to give her the mojo to win, all the remaining Slayers will sacrifice themselves to her power. Including Satsu. Including Kennedy. Including Faith.
I thought the art was pretty strong in this issue, except for the matchstick figures business in one or two panels.
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Hellbound Hyperion
Bad Ass Wicca
$20 per soul, no refunds[/B]
Dude, you just rescued a puppy![Mo0:18]
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Feb 3, 2010 21:42:09 GMT -5
So if Faith holds her will she get a tingly feeling? Mano-a-mano might not be the way it'll go, of course, seeing how most of us here know who Twilight is. One thing's for sure: Meltzer knows his consequences. +1.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 3, 2010 22:00:46 GMT -5
So if Faith holds her will she get a tingly feeling? More than usual, you mean? Mano-a-mano might not be the way it'll go, of course, seeing how most of us here know who Twilight is. At this point if there is any kissage... any kissage whatsoever between them... I'm going to break down the bonds between fiction and reality, leap physically into the pages of the comic, and smack the CRAP out of that girl. I know she'll kill me, but I'll have the element of surprise and should be able to get one resounding slap in before my guts are strewn all over the pages of issue 34. Sigh... poor Vi. Poor Chao-Ahn. Poor Rona. (Well, okay, maybe not poor Rona.) It's a strange concept of female empowerment. One female gets empowered, the others get dead. +1. Even the Tick one.
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Hellbound Hyperion
Bad Ass Wicca
$20 per soul, no refunds[/B]
Dude, you just rescued a puppy![Mo0:18]
Posts: 2,268
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Feb 3, 2010 22:03:00 GMT -5
Even the Tick one. Also: @ your spoiler tag. So violent! But I don't think that will happen.
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Post by wenxina on Feb 3, 2010 23:08:33 GMT -5
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jellymoff
Ensouled Vampire
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Post by jellymoff on Feb 4, 2010 0:21:46 GMT -5
A very good issue, but a very sad one. SO many dead Slayers. I guess we can assume they're all dead, except for the ones with Buffy. By several orders of magnitude, this is the bloodiest thing Joss has ever plotted. Are we sure that they are all dead? We only saw Willow go to 3 locations. In further news, I really liked the issue. The explanation for Buffy's powers is pretty smart, and also really sad.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 4, 2010 0:35:07 GMT -5
Are we sure that they are all dead? We only saw Willow go to 3 locations. Three random locations, at which every single Slayer was dead or dying. The question is... does Twilight know that killing all those Slayers gives Buffy increased power? If so, how? And if so, why is he killing them? Does he want Buffy to have this power for some reason?
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Darth Rosie
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Post by Darth Rosie on Feb 4, 2010 7:14:30 GMT -5
I wonder how Buffy will cope with the source of her empowerment in the long run. I cannot even begin to imagine how hard it must be to bear this emotional weight: to have empowered the slayers and then to have lost so many of them in such a way, with such consequences. Even if it is, of course, not Buffy's fault, be there is a causal link. This storyline is incredible.
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Post by wenxina on Feb 4, 2010 9:24:27 GMT -5
Newsarama review HERE. Continues on the trend of glowing reviews. To sum it up, they say: "Buffy the Vampire Slayer continues to be a solid book in all respects. Meltzer’s take definitely has the energy that I would associate with, say, Season 3, of the television series, and the art really only gets better."
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Post by Mr. Savath Bunny on Feb 4, 2010 10:32:42 GMT -5
I agree, after finishing the issue I was VERY happy with where the story is going. In Retreat I never got that feeling... not sure how to describe it, but its that same feeling I got when something crazy happened to the scoobies and the Buffy story takes a sharp turn - for the worst (Like when we all found out Angel lost his soul, or when Warren shot his gun, or when Faith killed a man – and didn’t care)... This story did "that" to me. I really didn't know how Joss/Brad was going to pull off the Superman Effect with Buffy, but he did it - and broke me with his storytelling. Now when I look at the cover and see our #1 slayer zooming into the sky, my heart sinks a little knowing that it’s only possible because of the deaths of so many slayers all over the world - how sad is that. This is why I love this show.... well, comic.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 4, 2010 10:53:32 GMT -5
Any theories on what Amy, Warren and the General are really up to?
They can't possibly believe Buffy would be stupid enough to buy their "Twilight kicked us out, waaaah!" nonsense and let them into her inner circle. I'm thinking they're just trying to get close enough to pull off some kind of sneak attack. Maybe a forced teleport to Twilight's HQ.
I also wonder about this issue's liberal use of names, plot descriptions, and even the visual depiction of a device straight out of a Marvel comic. I'd think there would be intellectual property issues here, at least with regards to the artwork. And especially if Twilight's device is actually going to play a real part in the story.
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Post by wenxina on Feb 4, 2010 11:21:03 GMT -5
Unless Twilight really did kick them out in exchange for three more important pawns instead? Who knows? Twilight's master plan has eluded us this far... so I guess we'll next month. But did anyone else pick up on how the "moral" of "The Monkey's Paw" (something about how people are ruled by fate, and those who attempt to change it do it to their own sorrow) kinda paralleled Angel's advice to Buffy in #20? The bit about how telling someone about their future could possibly send it spiraling to who-knows-where.
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Feb 4, 2010 15:53:06 GMT -5
I really really wanna enjoy this issue. I do. It would be one of the best since TOYL... if it didn't have a potential continuity error. I'll try to explain this as easily as possible. Issue 30: Buffy wakes up to find Giles, Willow, and a bunch of other slayers being taken away by Twilight's army. Continuity error #1: Scott said Willow wasn't supposed to be taken away with the rest of them and it was an accident. Issue 31: Twilight has Andrew, Faith, and Giles at his HQ and he states that his Wiccans cast a confusion spell on Buffy and crew so they would take days to notice they were missing. Continuity Error #2: That's all fine and dandy if just Andrew, Faith, and Giles were taken, but what about the rest of the slayers that he took. Where are they? Continuity Error #3: Andrew, Giles, and Faith have different clothes on than when they were captured Issue 32: There's no way I can summarize then spit out continuity errors. They're all continuity errors. Continuity Error #4: Willow notices that Andrew, Giles, and Faith are missing but she remembers them being with everyone after the battle which could be due to the spell. Andrew, Giles, and Faith wake up in Twilight HQ, and they have memories of being with everyone else after the battle as well. I understand why Twilight would alter Buffy and crew's memories, but why alter the prisoners? I thought the point of the confusion spell was to stall the time Buffy found out they were missing. Why would Andrew, Giles, and Faith need false memories too? Continuity Error #5: After the battle, Willow made a force field that doesn't allow any teleporting in or out. Amy, Warren, and the general teleport in anyway. The explanation given is that Amy used a spell that teleported Andrew, Giles, and Faith out so they could take their places in Willow's bubble. If the confusion spell really did give everyone false memories, then Faith, Giles, and Andrew should've been captured by the army outside the bubble after the battle anyway. Amy wouldn't need to swap places with them. If Faith, Giles, and Andrew were still in the bubble but they were captured with Twilight's army, then that means Warren, Amy, and the General were in the bubble as well and they wouldn't need to find a way to get in. Continuity Error #6: Even if Andrew, Giles, and Faith had to be teleported out for Amy, Warren, and the general to come in, it still wouldn't make sense. Those three were taken hostage in #30 along with some other slayers. Where are those other slayers that were captured? They haven't been mentioned at all. If Twilight's army took the hostages out of parameter before Willow made the bubble, that would make sense, but then Faith, Giles, and Andrew would be out as well and Amy couldn't switch places with them. For me, continuity errors bring me out of the issue and cause me to stop enjoying it and work out a fanwank. I hate it. Am I missing something? Do you guys understand it? I don't.
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Post by wenxina on Feb 4, 2010 16:48:35 GMT -5
The confusion spell is actually quite unnecessary, and it does muddle things up a bit. But the first continuity error is valid, Willow wasn't supposed to be one of the ones taken. As for the Slayers taken as well, Scott mentioned that they are still captive, but held in a different location. Presumably, it's only the important captives that are with Twilight right now. And even then, the three of them were accidental captives, but hey, captives all the same.
As for the bit about the three captives having memories of being with the others after the war, that can be attributed to the confusion spell hitting them too. However, the more honest idea is that it is a slip-up of sorts. I kinda covered this in my response to the issue on an earlier page. Faith, Giles, and Andrew could very easily have just been taken after the war, without any real need for a confusion spell... Joss' #31 was pretty much a last minute fill-in between "Retreat" and "Twilight". My guess is he had to plug up a few holes, and the confusion spell business was just a random plot device to clumsily get us from #30 to #32.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 4, 2010 16:51:45 GMT -5
Considering what Twilight's people are doing to Slayers all over the world, I wouldn't count on any of his "captives" still being alive, aside from Faith and Giles and Andrew. I'm not sure why those Slayers would warrant any different treatment.
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Post by wenxina on Feb 4, 2010 16:54:12 GMT -5
Or, as AC points out, they could be dead in a valley somewhere...
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Feb 4, 2010 17:03:20 GMT -5
Thanks guys. That soothed my head a lot. The only thing I don't understand is Amy's explanation for how she got in Willow's force field. If they already captured Giles, Andrew, and Faith, they wouldn't be able to teleport them out to get themselves in.
Do you guys understand that too?
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Post by wenxina on Feb 4, 2010 17:33:00 GMT -5
Joe... it's a continuity error. No real way out of that one without some elaborate fanwank, and I'm talking bondage, paddles, clowns, trapeze artists, and contortionists for this wankage. So just let it go, and enjoy the story For me, I've kinda written "Retreat" into a hole of just messy clumsy writing (I'm still pissed at Espenson, and a little peeved that Joss and Scott weren't more careful when it came to editing, but then again, it sounds like that part of the story was quite fly by their pants, so whatever). If you kinda adapt what you see in "Retreat" to fit #31 and #32, it's much easier to stomach. Just blur your eyes...
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Joe
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Obsessive Paranoid Boob
"Gypsies are filthy people! We shall speak of zem no more!" *spits* -Ilona Costa Bianchi[Mo0:0]
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Post by Joe on Feb 4, 2010 17:38:59 GMT -5
Joe... it's a continuity error. No real way out of that one without some elaborate fanwank, and I'm talking bondage, paddles, clowns, trapeze artists, and contortionists for this wankage. So just let it go, and enjoy the story For me, I've kinda written "Retreat" into a hole of just messy clumsy writing (I'm still pissed at Espenson, and a little peeved that Joss and Scott weren't more careful when it came to editing, but then again, it sounds like that part of the story was quite fly by their pants, so whatever). If you kinda adapt what you see in "Retreat" to fit #31 and #32, it's much easier to stomach. Just blur your eyes... Ughhhh. Oh well. I'll just pretend the panel in #30 of the soldiers taking away the slayers never existed. Everything makes sense if I do. I'm even considering scribbling it out of my issue. (Not really but it's a nice thought )
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 4, 2010 17:52:22 GMT -5
Scott says they're going to re-do that panel for the Retreat trade paperback.
As I understand it, the correct sequence of events is that Giles, Faith and Andrew were *not* captured with the other Slayers... they were separately teleported out, and Amy, Warren and the General were teleported in to replace them.
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