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Post by wenxina on Feb 10, 2010 15:34:48 GMT -5
I suppose what I'm just saying is, there's gotta be SOME Slayers who have survived. Come on! Not all the girls are dead. Many, some 206 (according to Buffy in #33) are dead. That's nearly half the girls who were in the Slayer Army... there are still plenty of Slayers out there.
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cutiepatootie
Common Vampire
lay waste to the world, and everything in it[Mo0:0]
Posts: 87
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Post by cutiepatootie on Feb 10, 2010 15:36:57 GMT -5
Yeah, I hadn't read the spoiler for #33 when I wrote that
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Post by wenxina on Feb 10, 2010 21:26:16 GMT -5
Yeah, I hadn't read the spoiler for #33 when I wrote that Guess that goes to show that we don't know everything there is to know yet...
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D'Hoffryn
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 127
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Post by D'Hoffryn on Feb 14, 2010 6:13:43 GMT -5
Finally got mine today and loved it. I had to read posts and google because i know nothing about star trek and little about x-men comics. Issue was really long and well scripted and i'm becoming more convinced we still know jack about Twlight. So let me get this right, Buffy gets the slayers powers when they die, she is not slowly leaching them? In season 7 the first watchers offered her more power to fight the 1st but she said no as it would make her less human but now shes ok with that? Last thing I'm not 'hip' on the time space continum but will or have FD Willow's powers made a backlash through the ripple in time and end up in present day Buffy because that will make her a goddess maybe with enough power to seal away the demons and willow can fly slayers can't? Oh and MONKEY'S PAW
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Hallow Thorn
Bad Ass Wicca
Oh and You're Welcome
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2,306
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Post by Hallow Thorn on Feb 14, 2010 6:24:33 GMT -5
I suppose what I'm just saying is, there's gotta be SOME Slayers who have survived. Come on! Not all the girls are dead. Many, some 206 (according to Buffy in #33) are dead. That's nearly half the girls who were in the Slayer Army... there are still plenty of Slayers out there. As long as Faith, Leah, Chao-ahn, Vi, Alexia (if sired) and Satsu (and some Aussie slayers lol) are ok, I'm cool.
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Post by wenxina on Feb 14, 2010 11:19:37 GMT -5
So let me get this right, Buffy gets the slayers powers when they die, she is not slowly leaching them? In season 7 the first watchers offered her more power to fight the 1st but she said no as it would make her less human but now shes ok with that? They pretty much just learn the origin of her new powers and to answer your second question No, she's not okay with sucking the powers from dead Slayers, as seen in the released page for #33
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 16, 2010 11:24:36 GMT -5
It's hard for me to buy the Twilight Trio's (Amy, Warren and the General) story about being kicked out by Twilight and going to Buffy in search of revenge. And I think (hope) Buffy is even less likely to buy it than I am.
I could certainly imagine Amy and Warren trying to switch sides for their own selfish reasons... though I'm not sure why they'd expect anything other than imprisonment at best, and instant death at worst, from Buffy and Willow in view of the things they've done. Especially since Buffy has every reason to suspect them of involvement in the Slayer genocide that's been happening (whether they really are involved in it or not.)
But what's the General's excuse supposed to be?
Scott Allie told us in the last Q&A that the soldiers are regular U.S. Army, not mercenaries. This guy is a General in the U.S. Army... not just some foot soldier who might desert. If for some reason Twilight had dismissed him, he would report back to the Pentagon for further instructions and, if necessary, a new command assignment. It's not like getting fired by Twilight leaves him at loose ends.
It's possible, I suppose, that he's concerned for his missing men and wants to get in and see what Buffy has done with them... but is that really something a general would be doing as opposed to a recon specialist or a spy?
It's very puzzling to me what those three think they're going to accomplish here. Nobody with an IQ of double-digits or higher would believe their story for a moment.
I think it might just be a ruse to get close enough to Buffy to force-teleport her to Twilight's lair so he can do his big monologue and reveal.
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The Night Lord
Wise-cracking Sidekick
The Long Kiss Goodnight
There can be no love. Only pain exists[Mo0:1]
Posts: 2,654
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Post by The Night Lord on Feb 18, 2010 0:57:29 GMT -5
Read it yesterday and while I enjoyed it, I'm still lost...am I missing something between #30 and #31? Retreat pt 5 ended with Tibet under snow and nearly everyone captured, but then Turbulence opens up with grassy fields, Buffy used to flying and only Giles, Faith and Andrew missing, which no-one noticed until #32. Also, in #32, where the hell are they exactly?
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Post by wenxina on Feb 18, 2010 1:18:12 GMT -5
Apparently there are a bunch of Slayers rounded up, but being held elsewhere. Presumably, Giles, Faith, and Andrew are being kept at the HQ because they're important. Apparently the reason that no one missed them before #32 was because of a confusion spell cast by Twilight's wiccans. There was an art flub at the end of #30; that's not supposed to be Willow being rounded up with the rest of the people. The snowstorm in #30 was caused by the goddesses, and as they had trampled elsewhere by that point, the snow left too. #32 is still set in Tibet, though the vegetation looks really tropical, so presumably quite a ways from the temple. The core Scoobies have now relocated to another HQ. It's basically to focus the attention on them, while the rest of the army recuperates at the temple.
But I guess the thing to bear in mind is that there were shifts in the planning of "Retreat", and it really doesn't fit with "Twilight". There are some glaring continuity errors, like the fact that apparently Amy teleported herself, Warren, and the general in, whilst teleporting Giles, Andrew, and Faith out of the current HQ. Problem is, the three captives never saw the new HQ, since they were rounded up with a bunch of Slayers. Joss' #31 was kinda a patch job to try and connect the two arcs, but there'll be some major rewriting to do to fix some of those errors. Makes me hate "Retreat" even more than I did... the execution of the entire arc just left a lot to be desired.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 18, 2010 8:38:46 GMT -5
AThere are some glaring continuity errors, like the fact that apparently Amy teleported herself, Warren, and the general in, whilst teleporting Giles, Andrew, and Faith out of the current HQ. Problem is, the three captives never saw the new HQ, since they were rounded up with a bunch of Slayers. Joss' #31 was kinda a patch job to try and connect the two arcs, but there'll be some major rewriting to do to fix some of those errors. Makes me hate "Retreat" even more than I did... the execution of the entire arc just left a lot to be desired. The way I understand it is: 1. A bunch of Slayers were rounded up by Twilight's men, including Giles and Faith and Andrew (Willow's inclusion in that group was an error to be fixed in the trade); 2. While still within the boundaries of Willow's no-teleport zone, GF&A were separated out from the others. 3. The other Slayers were physically removed and either imprisoned somewhere or killed, depending on whether Twilight is the one responsible for the mass-murdering of Slayers currently happening; 4. Because there's a loophole in Willow's no-teleport spell that allows you to switch places with a person inside the zone, Amy cast a spell in Twilight's HQ that allowed her, Warren and the general to switch places with Faith, Giles and Andrew, thus allowing them to get inside the no-teleport zone; 5. The fact that FG&A appeared inside Twilight's HQ is pretty much proof that AW&G hadn't been "kicked out" by Twilight at the time Amy cast that spell, since they were obviously standing in the middle of his HQ when she cast it.
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Post by wenxina on Feb 18, 2010 9:54:31 GMT -5
AThere are some glaring continuity errors, like the fact that apparently Amy teleported herself, Warren, and the general in, whilst teleporting Giles, Andrew, and Faith out of the current HQ. Problem is, the three captives never saw the new HQ, since they were rounded up with a bunch of Slayers. Joss' #31 was kinda a patch job to try and connect the two arcs, but there'll be some major rewriting to do to fix some of those errors. Makes me hate "Retreat" even more than I did... the execution of the entire arc just left a lot to be desired. The way I understand it is: 1. A bunch of Slayers were rounded up by Twilight's men, including Giles and Faith and Andrew (Willow's inclusion in that group was an error to be fixed in the trade); 2. While still within the boundaries of Willow's no-teleport zone, GF&A were separated out from the others. 3. The other Slayers were physically removed and either imprisoned somewhere or killed, depending on whether Twilight is the one responsible for the mass-murdering of Slayers currently happening; 4. Because there's a loophole in Willow's no-teleport spell that allows you to switch places with a person inside the zone, Amy cast a spell in Twilight's HQ that allowed her, Warren and the general to switch places with Faith, Giles and Andrew, thus allowing them to get inside the no-teleport zone; 5. The fact that FG&A appeared inside Twilight's HQ is pretty much proof that AW&G hadn't been "kicked out" by Twilight at the time Amy cast that spell, since they were obviously standing in the middle of his HQ when she cast it. Except that during the round-up, Willow had no magic, which means that she couldn't have sustained the "no teleport zone". The zone was established afterwards, after her magic returned. There would have been no need for teleporting at all... and even if they wanted to, Willow's spell wouldn't have created any hindrance since it wasn't in place yet. Added to the fact that the three captives seem to remember being at the compound (presumably the new HQ), I'd say that there was some major reshuffling of the plot at one point, and as Allie said, the confusion spell was handy. But it does draw attention to the fact that everything seems to be way out of wack. Jane's arc got reshuffled some, and originally, a lot of the events of #31 were supposed to be contained in her arc, but because of the moving around of events, the discovery of the Xander/Dawn relationship got pushed back much further, and so the Buffy/Xander talk only happened in #31. Remember also that the #31 that we got was kinda shoehorned in... Meltzer's arc was supposed to start from #31, and from what we knew back then, was supposed to span 5 issues. The continuity issues between "Retreat" and "Twilight" indicates that the crew were really flying by the seat of their pants at this point (heck, wasn't it only last Con season that they finally kinda finalized the plot details for the end of S8?). This somewhat displeases me, since the sloppiness of 2009 is kinda mucking up the otherwise good beginning of 2010.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 18, 2010 10:40:52 GMT -5
I'm sure this is the main reason for the desire to keep season 9 shorter and smaller in scale. I like the idea being floated that Joss will meet with the arc writers next season "writers' room" style like with the TV show, to really make sure it hangs together as a cohesive story, instead of assignments being doled out by e-mail with lists of plot points to hit.
I don't know why they added the unnecessary complication of Willow's no-teleport spell in the first place. They could have just have assumed that FG&A were captured with the other Slayers... when Twilight recognized them among the prisoners he had Amy teleport them back to his HQ and put them to sleep... and then later AW&G simply teleported into the vicinity of Buffy's hideout to present their sob story.
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Post by wenxina on Feb 18, 2010 12:09:51 GMT -5
Well, for that matter, the confusion spell is quite unnecessary too. Would've just been simpler for FG&A to be nabbed sometime just before #32. That would make a lot more sense, since they remember being at the new compound. And Satsu claimed that Andrew was drawing a lasso for Buffy. All these things could've added up, without the complication of a confusion spell. Problem is, we saw Giles being nabbed in #30, so I guess unless a chunk of #30 was rewritten, this was deemed the best course of action.
I'll be glad for the "writers' room" style breakdown of the plot. Too much meandering in 2009, and although there were a few gems, it just kinda sank with the mediocrity of the majority.
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Post by DorothyFan1 on Feb 18, 2010 12:45:07 GMT -5
It's hard for me to buy the Twilight Trio's (Amy, Warren and the General) story about being kicked out by Twilight and going to Buffy in search of revenge. And I think (hope) Buffy is even less likely to buy it than I am. I could certainly imagine Amy and Warren trying to switch sides for their own selfish reasons... though I'm not sure why they'd expect anything other than imprisonment at best, and instant death at worst, from Buffy and Willow in view of the things they've done. Especially since Buffy has every reason to suspect them of involvement in the Slayer genocide that's been happening (whether they really are involved in it or not.) But what's the General's excuse supposed to be? Scott Allie told us in the last Q&A that the soldiers are regular U.S. Army, not mercenaries. This guy is a General in the U.S. Army... not just some foot soldier who might desert. If for some reason Twilight had dismissed him, he would report back to the Pentagon for further instructions and, if necessary, a new command assignment. It's not like getting fired by Twilight leaves him at loose ends. It's possible, I suppose, that he's concerned for his missing men and wants to get in and see what Buffy has done with them... but is that really something a general would be doing as opposed to a recon specialist or a spy? It's very puzzling to me what those three think they're going to accomplish here. Nobody with an IQ of double-digits or higher would believe their story for a moment. I think it might just be a ruse to get close enough to Buffy to force-teleport her to Twilight's lair so he can do his big monologue and reveal. Curiously, I believe your answer may explain why Dawn is not on GJ's alternate cover for issue #35. Since Amy had to figure out a way to get around Willow's spell, she could only transport three people from Twilight's HQ. This means if you're correct about Amy's loyalty still being with Twilight...then this means the only people Amy, Warren and the General are tasked to capture are Buffy, Willow and Xander since these are the only number of people they can trick into being captured by Twilight. However, I believe a better explanation would be having it be Buffy, Xander and Dawn they're able to capture...leaving the big one out of the net...Willow. Not by choice. Because I believe Willow would be far more suspicious of Amy and Warren. So Twilight will fail to capture Willow. She's the one he wants to kill right away. Remember Twilight's purpose is to end magic. So if he succeeds in capturing Willow..it's game over. Willow would be tortured and murdered almost instantly especially if Amy and Warren really are still on Twilight's team. So I believe the Jeanty cover for #35 is misdirection. There's no way Twilight would allow Willow at his HQ unless she were heavily under guard and under total control by Amy and her witches.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 18, 2010 12:48:03 GMT -5
And Satsu claimed that Andrew was drawing a lasso for Buffy. I guess that was just a wise-ass comment on Satsu's part and she hadn't really seen Andrew?
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Post by wenxina on Feb 18, 2010 13:19:46 GMT -5
And Satsu claimed that Andrew was drawing a lasso for Buffy. I guess that was just a wise-ass comment on Satsu's part and she hadn't really seen Andrew? Goes with the confusion spell thing, I guess. Everyone seemed to have "seen" the missing trio, until they were actually looking for them. However, if you remove the confusion spell from the equation, then having Satsu actually having seen Andrew earlier, and having GF&A nabbed after the establishment of the new HQ would work, since they remember being there. The thing that kills that is the end of #30, with Giles being taken away with the rest of the Slayers. And so... mess.
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Post by DorothyFan1 on Feb 18, 2010 14:31:36 GMT -5
This will all be fixed in the release of the Retreat arc in omnibook format on March 10th, correct? They said something about fixing this for the trade. So we'll have to see how they rearrange everything in those panels in the Retreat collection.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 18, 2010 14:45:01 GMT -5
As far as I know, the only change we've been told about for the trade is removing Willow from the scene of people being taken prisoner... removing Giles and the Girl Who Looks Like Dawn would be useful too. They'll probably just re-do that whole panel.
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Joe
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Obsessive Paranoid Boob
"Gypsies are filthy people! We shall speak of zem no more!" *spits* -Ilona Costa Bianchi[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2,786
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Post by Joe on Feb 22, 2010 14:44:28 GMT -5
As far as I know, the only change we've been told about for the trade is removing Willow from the scene of people being taken prisoner... removing Giles and the Girl Who Looks Like Dawn would be useful too. They'll probably just re-do that whole panel. I hope they redo the whole panel too. That'd be best. Whenever I reread #30, I just skip over that panel entirely. Everything else makes sense if you do.
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Nicholas
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
One Good Scare
Tonight I'm Dancing.[Mo0:16]
Posts: 656
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Post by Nicholas on Feb 23, 2010 21:01:38 GMT -5
So based on what Angel said to Buffy about a person knowing of their future could drastically affect them, could this be linked to ATF with Angel finding out his future??
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