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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jan 24, 2010 16:06:46 GMT -5
How are they not in order?
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Hellbound Hyperion
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Jan 24, 2010 16:14:14 GMT -5
How are they not in order? #23 takes place about a week after #17, #24-25 take place somewhere between Not Fade Away and #1, #26-27 happen sometime after (or possibly during) #23, Only Human takes place after #23 and who the heck really knows how Aftermath fits in. After the Fall has been the only consistent story arc for the Angel book to date, so it's the only one where timing is easiest to figure out. Willingham seems to have seized the reins and is finally moving forward, away from After the Fall as much as possible. I'm in complete disagreement with this thread, too. With the exception of a few average panels (and possibly Aftermath - I need to reflect more on Aftermath as a whole) the series has had some pretty great artists. Of course, I'm also in agreement with... I think it was Emmie? Said that Messina needs to be drawing the main book, and not backups/miniseries. He's amazing.
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jan 24, 2010 16:19:05 GMT -5
Oh, you mean like that.
It would be nice, getting a official statement of when the comics take place. Not exact date, but atleast how many days, weeks, between issues.
But at the same time, I realize that might make difficult for future writers, in case someone wants to squeeze a comic or two in between stories.
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Post by winterdreamer on Jan 24, 2010 16:33:20 GMT -5
I wouldn't say the art is going downhill at all....I would say there are parts in which the art is not to my taste~but if every artist had the same style things would get boring really fast. I really love the work by the guy who did Only Human (I'm rotten for names,sorry) and am not as fond of the art in the third AtF collection.....but thats just personal taste. However I have a lot of respect for the work comic artists do, (having done some freelance painting myself) and understand the pressures of deadlines ect. I am sure each artist gave the project their 'all' and , even if their work is not to everyones taste, they deserve some gratitude for bringing us some more Angel tales anyway. That said, the sample page the OP posted from 'boys and their toys' is supposed to look wonky, its supposed to be funny! Probably best to use examples from a section of Angel comics you have read~rather than one that (I thought) was hillarious in the story.
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Nod
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Post by Nod on Jan 24, 2010 18:32:50 GMT -5
I wouldn't say the art is going downhill at all....I would say there are parts in which the art is not to my taste~but if every artist had the same style things would get boring really fast. I really love the work by the guy who did Only Human (I'm rotten for names,sorry) and am not as fond of the art in the third AtF collection.....but thats just personal taste. However I have a lot of respect for the work comic artists do, (having done some freelance painting myself) and understand the pressures of deadlines ect. I am sure each artist gave the project their 'all' and , even if their work is not to everyones taste, they deserve some gratitude for bringing us some more Angel tales anyway. That said, the sample page the OP posted from 'boys and their toys' is supposed to look wonky, its supposed to be funny! Probably best to use examples from a section of Angel comics you have read~rather than one that (I thought) was hillarious in the story. Here is another comparsion to show you how bad the new volumes look compared to AtF, i blame it as much as on the bad inking job as i do on the artist. im hoping they get the old inker back because he seems to be the only one so far that knows how to ink a modern comic and not make it come off as a dated superhero comic. Urru's Art : i49.tinypic.com/2ymc294.jpgNew Art: i45.tinypic.com/1z1g3vd.jpgNew Art: i48.tinypic.com/anj8zp.jpg
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Post by Wyndam on Jan 24, 2010 18:37:09 GMT -5
Some of the art in the first link (the Spike/Illyria stuff from #6) is actually David Messina, not Franco Urru. Their styles are similar, but just letting you know that isn't Urru.
And in the third link the art by Stephen Mooney isn't from Aftermath, but #27-28 (Boys and Their Toys).
I personally love Stephen Mooney, he's my favorite artist after Urru, but again, this is all personal preference. I understand that you'd prefer Urru to do all of the art.
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Nod
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Post by Nod on Jan 24, 2010 18:40:59 GMT -5
Some of the art in the first link (the Spike/Illyria stuff from #7) is actually David Messina, not Franco Urru. Their styles are similar, but just letting you know that isn't Urru. And in the third link the art by Stephen Mooney isn't from Aftermath, but #27-28 ( Boys and Their Toys). I personally love Stephen Mooney, he's my favorite artist after Urru, but again, this is all personal preference. I understand that you'd prefer Urru to do all of the art. Oh i honestly thought it was done by him since he was credited on every AtF comic , both of them are amazing and the inking is incredible , it definitely reminds me of the show unlike the newer comics which feels fan-made and cheap more than anything else imho.
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Post by Wyndam on Jan 24, 2010 18:47:58 GMT -5
Franco Urru has only done the art for AtF # 1-5, 15-17, as well as issues #23-25 (and Spike: AtF). A few different artists did #6-8, Nick Runge did #9-11, and Stephen Mooney did #12-14, and #27-28 and the Annual. Dave Ross did the art for Aftermath #18-22, and now Brian Denham and David Messina are on the main title from #28 on.
David Messina also did the art for Angel: Only Human #1-5.
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jan 24, 2010 18:48:08 GMT -5
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Post by Wyndam on Jan 24, 2010 18:50:56 GMT -5
Yeah, Urru and Mooney both do their own inking.
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Nod
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Post by Nod on Jan 24, 2010 18:53:16 GMT -5
Yeah i think he is,the style of inking stopped with AtF so i assume it's either him or an inker that might have left the team. Also that's impressive artwork.
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Paul
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Post by Paul on Jan 24, 2010 19:21:47 GMT -5
The art for the Angel series has been all over the place. Urru's work has been consistantly suberb, he's definitely the best Angel artist to date. First Night was diverse, which is what you want from an anthology; Byrne's Lorne story was a highlight. However, it went straight to hell with Runge's three issues, which were downright unreadable for me. I came so close to dropping the book during his run, it was... just awful. Mooney picked things up a lot, luckily just in time for Cordelia's return. He's a good artist, but a little inconsistant; Boys and Their Toys was pretty hit-and-miss IMO. The art on Aftermath was extremely mediocre... not terrible, just rather cheap (I can't even remember the artist's name). And Brian Denham has yet to win me over with his claustrophobic, static close-ups on everyone's faces. You can draw likenesses, we get it. The most frustrating thing is how IDW have misused one of their best artists; David Messina has been wasted on non-canon rubbish ( The Curse, Old Friends, etc), pointless episode adaptations ( Smile Time), dull spin-offs ( Only Human), and the Eddie Hope back-up stories. He was the best thing about all of those projects, and should be drawing the main title. John Byrne's spin-off titles have been gorgeous; his classic drawing style really lends itself well to period stories like Blood and Trenches. He might not be on the main title, but he's had better material than Messina.
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Post by winterdreamer on Jan 24, 2010 19:22:14 GMT -5
But....I think the 'boys and their toys' arc was supposed to look like that. The issues were a play on superheroes, comics & spazzy fandom in general. Saying the art wasnt up to par with the more serious/epic arcs is like saying the acting in say...'Smile time' wasnt as gutwrenching as 'A hole in the world'. It simply wasnt meant to be. The art isnt the only thing that makes a comic worth reading, (there are some classics out there with some, what I consider to be wonky artwork~ yes, V for Vendetta, I'm looking at you ) and if the Boys' arc looked like a 'dated superhero comic' of well, I thought it was a very funny side story. Well worth reading, certainly worth reading before panning it.
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Nod
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Post by Nod on Jan 24, 2010 19:49:50 GMT -5
But....I think the 'boys and their toys' arc was supposed to look like that. The issues were a play on superheroes, comics & spazzy fandom in general. Saying the art wasnt up to par with the more serious/epic arcs is like saying the acting in say...'Smile time' wasnt as gutwrenching as 'A hole in the world'. It simply wasnt meant to be. The art isnt the only thing that makes a comic worth reading, (there are some classics out there with some, what I consider to be wonky artwork~ yes, V for Vendetta, I'm looking at you ) and if the Boys' arc looked like a 'dated superhero comic' of well, I thought it was a very funny side story. Well worth reading, certainly worth reading before panning it. Im not just talking about Boys and their Toys , im talking about everything after ATF. in some panels i honestly thought Angel was bruce wayne's lost birth brother or something. seriously: i49.tinypic.com/219o3u8.jpgBut i guess it sorta explains How Angel learned to fly in Buffy Season 8 : \
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Post by Wyndam on Jan 24, 2010 20:01:46 GMT -5
^ He only looked like that in Aftermath, which was just 5 issues and can pretty much just be disregarded anyway. Angel's looked normal from #23 on.
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Post by winterdreamer on Jan 24, 2010 20:10:07 GMT -5
agreed. It may make a difference that I came into the Angel fandom quite late....so all I had to catch up on was the hardbound collections. I've only been doing individual issues since the 2 issue Dru saga. So while I wasnt much a fan of aftermath, I was able to read it through in one sitting, not wait for it every month.(and I didnt hate it....it just felt a little cold to me) But like the previous poster said, Aftermath was only 5 issues....and since then I've very much enjoyed things. The new artist (again with the name-blank, sorry!) is, I think, fantastic & with Messina (oooh a name, hope I spelled it right) doing Eddie's story and Urru on the Spike series everything is looking pretty awesome. ....but I did rather like Kate's tight trousers from aftermath....those can come back.
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Post by Nod on Jan 24, 2010 20:17:19 GMT -5
^ He only looked like that in Aftermath, which was just 5 issues and can pretty much just be disregarded anyway. Angel's looked normal from #23 on. The cheapness of it is awful though, im hoping they stop experimenting with odd Artwork and instead try and follow the ATF art style. Buffy Season 8 has had less artwork changes than Angel had from what i've seen, it's just plain weird how they keep changing and replacing folks who are great at their job like Urru.
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Post by winterdreamer on Jan 24, 2010 20:26:47 GMT -5
I'm not trying to dog-with-bone this, honest, but....Aftermath doesnt really look cheap. Wonky from time to time, but it's inked and colored well, with high production values. Why should other artists try to make their work look like ATF? They are not Urru. They are not drawing ATF. I get that you like Urru's art best, but its pretty harsh to expect other artists to eumulate his way of doing things. Sorry if I seem snarky about it, but that does hit a bit of a nerve. I've done painting commisions for people who have asked that I 'paint like so-and-so'....an artists work is (not to be over dramatic) part of who they are....they cant just drop the style they have spent a lifetime developing becasue someone would like them to draw like another artist.
And I believe Urru is doing the Spike series, poor lad cant do everything. ;D
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Post by henzINNIT on Jan 25, 2010 12:19:19 GMT -5
Urru should have stayed for the entirety of ATF. I liked Runge on the whole but there were a few undeniably terrible panels. Mooney is good. ATF got shitty colourists for a stretch in the middle of the run which didn't help either. Quality varied, wouldn't say it dropped indefinately ever though.
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Post by Nod on Jan 25, 2010 19:16:13 GMT -5
I'm not trying to dog-with-bone this, honest, but....Aftermath doesnt really look cheap. Wonky from time to time, but it's inked and colored well, with high production values. Why should other artists try to make their work look like ATF? They are not Urru. They are not drawing ATF. I get that you like Urru's art best, but its pretty harsh to expect other artists to eumulate his way of doing things. Sorry if I seem snarky about it, but that does hit a bit of a nerve. I've done painting commisions for people who have asked that I 'paint like so-and-so'....an artists work is (not to be over dramatic) part of who they are....they cant just drop the style they have spent a lifetime developing becasue someone would like them to draw like another artist. And I believe Urru is doing the Spike series, poor lad cant do everything. ;D Im glade Urru is doing the Spike series but the art quailty of the newer volumes is too awful for me to be considered canon, Urru's work best emulated the dark feel of the show without trying to make the charcters look close to the actors because they would only come off as odd and cartoony. The newer ones look like something out of a poorly made fan-made comic book, i seriously can't enjoy looking at bad attempts by the artist to capture the likeness of the actors , they just came off as cheap and crude and don't look professional. I can easily see the newer volumes being out of someone's Devaintart's gallery. im paying to read something that is in the gray area of canon , i expect the quality to be good not a hit or miss between every arc. IDW should just stick with one artist and fire who ever the hell is doing the bad inking. Winter you're definitely coming off as biased though because you're an artist , they ARE drawing Angel comics , not spin-off's or one-shots. they drawing canonical comics that continue Angel Season 6 and i expect them to keep the high level of quality in both inking and drawing through entire arcs. Urru should have stayed for the entirety of ATF. I liked Runge on the whole but there were a few undeniably terrible panels. Mooney is good. ATF got shitty colourists for a stretch in the middle of the run which didn't help either. Quality varied, wouldn't say it dropped indefinately ever though. I definitely agree about Urru staying on board and having shitty colourists.
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