The Night Lord
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The Long Kiss Goodnight
There can be no love. Only pain exists[Mo0:1]
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Post by The Night Lord on May 25, 2009 6:58:33 GMT -5
Well, this is quite interesting. I'm enjoying this debate between you two. Very enjoyable, though I'm leaning more towards Emmie's side of the debate
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Post by ambersknight on May 27, 2009 12:39:29 GMT -5
I thought Season 4 was Angel's best season (my bugbear is with season 5 which i felt was a letdown).
As for jasmine, it made perfect sense to me. her intention was to enslave the human race with peace. Batter the human race with fear and confusion and keep its champions (Angel and his team) busy through one disaster after another) in order to get to the point of coming into being. By then the human race would be all the more willing and freewill more easy to control.
Wesley's comments are deliberately a weak excuse, it was a sign that under jasmine's aura the mind will sek out any explanation to excuse genocide 9as many religious people do to this day).
The season was huge and epic in scope and scale. After the emotional battering of season 3 (which was a hugely impressive season in its own right) season 4 was the right way to go. bigger, badder, more epic.
Its just such a pity that season 5 was such a come down.
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The Night Lord
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Post by The Night Lord on May 29, 2009 0:28:22 GMT -5
For those who don't consider Cordy to be the mother figure, there's this: Connor: (after remembering the time he slept with Cordy) "Fantastic. My first time was with my surrogate mother. I'm not only an immaculate vampire baby, I'm also Oedipus"
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Alexiness
Novice Witch
There is no me... I'm just a container.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 268
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Post by Alexiness on May 30, 2009 4:14:30 GMT -5
Wow, quite a debate going on there. Very fun to read.
The Night Lord, when did Connor say that? It's not ringing any bells for me.
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The Night Lord
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There can be no love. Only pain exists[Mo0:1]
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Post by The Night Lord on May 31, 2009 0:29:02 GMT -5
After the Fall #6, First Night part 1
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on May 31, 2009 1:27:49 GMT -5
For those who don't consider Cordy to be the mother figure, there's this: Connor: (after remembering the time he slept with Cordy) "Fantastic. My first time was with my surrogate mother. I'm not only an immaculate vampire baby, I'm also Oedipus" Except that that just gets back to my original point: we're repeatedly told after the fact that Cordy was a mother-figure to him, but how much evidence is there in S3 that actually shows and supports that? Emmie came up with a couple of examples and made a good case, but it still does nothing to change my mind that spending a couple of weeks as one of 5 or 6 people taking care of him doesn't make her enough of a mom to be worthy of the Oedipus references, and the countless "Eww!"s from the many fans. She was a babysitter for him for a very brief time--that's it. Just my own opinion. And completely off-topic, but Alexiness, I love your avatar! Groo rocks!!
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The Night Lord
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Post by The Night Lord on May 31, 2009 1:36:38 GMT -5
And everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Me, I've always seen Cordy as Connor's surrogate mum. I've always loved the whole Angel/Cordelia relationship and baby Connor is a nice little addition to that. It is a very nice 'parents & baby' image, but that's just me
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Post by snizapman6294 on Jun 3, 2009 23:00:56 GMT -5
i LOVED season 4...
ranking actually goes 1<2<3<4<5... i will give you the whole Cordy and Connor doinking is disgusting, but you have to admit: HAVING ANGELUS BACK WAS FUCKING AMAZING!!!! RIGHT?!?!?!
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Post by wenxina on Jun 3, 2009 23:34:41 GMT -5
Another F-bomb and I will go Faith on your Angelus.
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Post by Emmie on Jun 4, 2009 0:20:34 GMT -5
Any more gratuitous swearing and I'll go Giles on you Scoobies = wiping my glasses and pretending not to see.
...oops no. Wait. That's wrong!
Morale of the story: No gratuitous swearing please and thank yous.
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The Night Lord
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There can be no love. Only pain exists[Mo0:1]
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Post by The Night Lord on Jun 4, 2009 0:32:08 GMT -5
*tries to look innocent* I'm vewy, vewy, sowy, Mr Xi & Ms Em, I won't do it again *losing innocent look* Or if I do it again, I'll just have to remind myself to put an effing star in it. Okay, toning it down now...
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Alexiness
Novice Witch
There is no me... I'm just a container.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 268
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Post by Alexiness on Jun 4, 2009 8:04:50 GMT -5
After the Fall #6, First Night part 1 Ah, okay. I had a feeling it was from ATF. And completely off-topic, but Alexiness, I love your avatar! Groo rocks!! Oh wow, thanks. Haha. Yeah, after rewatching season 3 of Angel I just became obsessed with Groo. Ahahah. He's hilarious. i LOVED season 4... ranking actually goes 1<2<3<4<5... You could watch the seasons backwards to see them from favourite to least favourite. Haha. Although, I think my ranking would be slightly different from yours: 1<2<4<3<5
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Post by ambersknight on Jun 4, 2009 10:10:52 GMT -5
My seasons of Angel from fave to least fave is: 4 3 2 1 5.
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gumgnome
Junior Vampire Slayer
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Post by gumgnome on Jun 4, 2009 17:11:53 GMT -5
I'd say mine was 2>1>4>3>5
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The Night Lord
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Post by The Night Lord on Jun 5, 2009 0:35:22 GMT -5
I'll say mine is 5>3>4>1>2 S5: Spike, Illyria, Destiny, You're Welcome, Not Fade Away S3: Loads of Cangel goodness S4: Faith & Angelus S1: It's the start of the series S2: It's actually kinda boring for me... Anyhow, I think we're getting a little off topic, which is 'Season 4 - What was Joss thinking?'. And how about this: watch Provider, all of it, but mainly the Cordy/Connor scenes, then watch the last 5 minutes of Apocalypse, Nowish. Then, get freaked out and go 'ewwww'
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Post by snizapman6294 on Jun 5, 2009 1:14:43 GMT -5
Another F-bomb and I will go Faith on your Angelus. Another f*cking fantastic part of season 4... see i censored myself... you're f*cking welcome!
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The Night Lord
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Post by The Night Lord on Jun 5, 2009 1:26:09 GMT -5
^ Lol
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Hellbound Hyperion
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Jun 10, 2009 23:19:06 GMT -5
My first post on this forum and it's about Season Four, which I happen to be knee deep in currently... how appropriate. Greetings! Now then: I still don't know exactly how I feel about Season Four. The more I watch it, the more it makes sense for me, but as to whether it was good... I'm not quite sure. So here I'd like to sound off on the things I really like about the season. +Family themes. First episode begins with Team Angel around the dinner table, acting like a true family, but it's only a hallucination of Angel's; last episode ends with Angel watching Connor enjoying dinner with his new family, which is also kind of an illusion. Themes of family permeate the whole season - Gunn and Fred acting as parents to Connor, the whole Connor/Cordy/Angel Oedipus thing, etc. Family is very much a prime focus of Joss's shows, and having Connor as a major part of the show helped bring that into focus more, at least for Angel. +Spin the Bottle, Apocalypse, Nowish, Slouching Toward Bethlehem, The House Always Wins. All the allusions to doom and chaos may not have panned out the way Joss had hoped, but the setup was super cool, don't you think? +Faith/Angelus. One of the best moments in Angel (in my opinion, and many of yours as well I'm sure) is the ending of Season One's "Five by Five" when Faith is pounding on Angel's chest saying "Kill me! Kill me!" Faith was so made for this show post-Buffy Season Three, and I would have loved to see more of her as it is, but the three-episode arc in the middle of Angel S4 was absolutely perfect for me in the place of Faith actually joining the show. Orpheus especially is an excellent episode to rewatch if only because of the flashbacks - torturing Angelus by reminding him of all the things he hates about Angel, with Faith watching and getting a deeper understanding of the man who saved her own soul - beautiful. +Character development. Aside from Cordy, most of the major characters develop in some way that plays a role in S5 (except for Gunn - I guess it's debatable but I really didn't feel much development for him until S5) - Angel as a father figure, Fred gaining confidence, Wesley's dark self returning to the crew, and Connor... oh boy Connor. I really felt Connor's loss by the end of the season - his despair is different from everyone else's despair after Jasmine is gone because he comes to believe that there are no lies he can believe that will lead to goodness - all his actions are in vain. It's interesting that he reacts to the news differently than his father - instead of sleeping with his old flame, he attempts to blow her up. The one thing that really doesn't hold together for me is the plot. I feel rather cheated for the whole "it's all part of the Plan" deus ex machina that was pulled by Skip and Jasmine. I also feel like the story just pulls itself along from episode to episode without ever stopping for an adventure that doesn't involve the main story arc. Tell me I'm not the only one who noticed that every episode ended on a cliffhanger? <_< While I do like some of the singular episodes for their plot arcs (Orpheus, Shiny Happy People, Deep Down, Home, and the ones I mentioned above), the overall plot was really contrived. But hey, how 'bout that Season Five, yeah?
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The Night Lord
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There can be no love. Only pain exists[Mo0:1]
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Post by The Night Lord on Jun 11, 2009 0:48:12 GMT -5
Season 5? Let's see, Spike, Cordelia, Illyria, series finale, 100th episode, Lindsey, Connor...there's a lot I like about season 5. It's my favourite Angel season
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