Official Discussion of Scott Allie Q&A's

[Rebecca]

From a macro perspective, Joss may consider Angel and Spike to have the most potential for creative usage in the Buffyverse. Whether he had a plan for them specifically at the time wouldn't be necessary for good business planning

[AndrewCrossett]

Another eventful Q&A.

1. AndrewCrossett: In the Bones season 4 DVD set there's a trailer listed for a "Buffy season 8 adaptation." Can you tell us what this is, and if Dark Horse is involved at all?

Scott Allie: We're not involved, and I don't wanna talk about it. Sorry.

Hmmm. Doesn't seem like Scott is very happy with this situation. I wonder if it's because a) he's unhappy that DH was not involved or not consulted, or b) he thinks the project is crap and doesn't want to seem unprofessional by saying so in public.

9. slayerette: In a lot (if not all) of the Buffy seasons prior to 8, the audience usually has a heads-up on the big bad. I'm thinking Ben is Glory/Glory is Ben. The first can look like anyone. etc. Will the readers get to see Twilight in all his non-masked brilliance before the characters do? Or do we get shock and awed at the same time as Buffy and/or Team Buffy?

Scott Allie: You'll see when the heroes see.

So it sounds like the Twilight reveal will be in front of the group, and not just a "private showing" for Buffy.

11. buffycomic: As there's another 12 issues left if Season Eight is running 40 issues, are there any more guest artists filling for when Georges takes a break between arcs?

Scott Allie: Yeah. Karl's doing the Will oneshot after #30, then we'll do something, maybe a 2 parter, after Meltzer's last ish.

Is this the first time we've heard there'll be another break between Meltzer and Joss? And a two-month one at that?

23. NotaViking: In "Harmony Comes To The Nation", Harmony actually admits on TV that vampires are evil and that they kill people. How can the public still believe that vampires are the good guys?

Scott Allie: Watch the news, man, the public will let anything pass if there's a cute skinny blond involved.

So, all Obama needs to sell health care is to get Paris Hilton touting it on talk shows?

See, this is the problem with injecting a major element of farcical satire into a story that isn't otherwise a farcical satire. It just causes complete cognitive dissonance.

Yeah, we know peeple have an unfortunate tendency to buy into what they see on TV. But they also have a tendency to become paranoid and panicky when it's revealed that there are dangerous outsiders living undetected among them for the express purpose of killing them.

This is like saying that Americans would have been OK with 9/11 if Al Qaeda had put a beautiful spokesmodel on TV to explain their motivations.

30. girlinquestion: So Xander and Dawn are now together. This has been developing for awhile, but at the beginning of Season 8, Xander and Renee had a romantic thing going on there. She was my favorite new character, so I was rather upset when she was killed off so early, Now that I see Xander with Dawn so quickly after he lost Renee, I wonder: What was the point of Renee's existence in the series? What was she supposed to add to the story?

Scott Allie: Characters don't move along straight lines. Xander's relationship with Renee meant that he didn't move straight from Anya to Dawn. It was a relatively ideal, conflict free relationship, and it had him growing in one direction. He had to get through that to get where he was going with Dawn, just as Buffy had to go through the thing with Satsu—not to say that that door is totally closed—before she could come to the conclusions she came to in the recent issue.

(Emphasis mine.)

I don't think I have to say how happy this makes me, do I?



(No, I still don't think it's likely Buffy and Satsu are fated to be a long-term couple... I just want to see it made clear that Buffy's feelings for Satsu mean more to her than just "missing the sex".)

28. Emmie: Sorry, Scott, but this is going to be a long one. Season 8 is full of storylines that the fandom is hungry to have explored more - When will Spike appear? And Angel? What about the Decoy? And the Immortal? What happened between Chosen and The Long Way Home? What led to Buffy becoming a bank robber (her mindset, motivation)? Most of these are treated as unimportant and pushed to the side. That they're not relevant to the main thrust of the storyline and space is tight in telling that story and doing it justice.

Which brings me to the choice to have 'humanity discovers vampires and likes them' as a secondary storyline. The storyline in itself is so complex and carries so much potential to be explored, that many fans find it odd that it's pushed to the shadows. And because of its complexity, it's been hard for fans to breeze by it with assumptions and just accept it as what's happening without further exploration. Fans wonder why humanity is accepting vampires across the globe when they're obviously evil and killing people, why everyone is so easily accepting. The story of humans discovering vampires and Slayers is complex, yet it's been boiled down to its most basic function to tell the main story.

What's your take on this balance of maintaining a focused story (keeping it close to Buffy) versus not filling out the secondary storylines of Season 8? Where do you draw the line between keeping the story tight and perhaps losing the audience's suspension of disbelief when storylines meant to be taken for granted and accepted simply aren't? It's interesting in a meta way that the storyline is that humanity is so easily accepting, yet the "fandom humanity" of the Buffyverse is not...

Scott Allie: Oh, Emmie. Hard to answer. Joss and the writers and all of us are following the storylines he wants to follow. I think in the end you'll find that the 40 issues are pretty damn full. Running off on the side stories you're suggesting would require something else. I'll give you the vampire thing—there's potential stuff there that we could deal with. But Where's Spike, Angel, the Immortal, the Decoy, those things don't matter at all, in the context of this story. There could be stories in the bank robbing and the time between Chosen and The Long Way Home. But it's not what we're doing. Joss wasn't interested in puttying in the space between the stories; he was interested in getting to the place where things would be new and fresh, and run from there. And I think that's the right choice for this book. There are books where the point becomes to putty in the spaces between the important events. I often find those books tedious. I prefer what Joss's doing.

I may be misinterpreting this response, but this makes it sound like Spike and/or Angel will *not* be putting in an appearance in official season 8, despite Joss commenting otherwise. Could "Always Darkest" really be what he had in mind when he said we "have to see our boys?"

38. AndrewCrossett: I'll now fulfill my monthly duty and ask: is there a title yet for Brad Meltzer's arc that you can share?

Scott Allie: Crapola, I do, but I don't have it handy.

"Crapola" is an unexpected choice of title... but probably quite appropriate from Buffy's viewpoint, considering where things seem to be going.

Oh, wait... that's not the title. I hope he'll get back to us on this?

42. NotaViking: Willow has a dramatic reversal of viewpoint upon being handed Oz's baby and then reacts very calmly to the news that Buffy killed her in the future. Is it the creative team's intention that the reader view both of these points as very strange behaviour or not?

Scott Allie: Not.

That may not have been the creative team's intention, but it was certainly the effect they had on me.

The mood swing thing I can accept, but the reaction to Buffy's confession... come on, Willow, no surprise at all? Not a smidgen of concern? Really?

Just... weird.

[Emmie]

So, all Obama needs to sell health care is to get Paris Hilton touting it on talk shows?

See, this is the problem with injecting a major element of farcical satire into a story that isn't otherwise a farcical satire. It just causes complete cognitive dissonance.

Yeah, we know peeple have an unfortunate tendency to buy into what they see on TV. But they also have a tendency to become paranoid and panicky when it's revealed that there are dangerous outsiders living undetected among them for the express purpose of killing them.

This is like saying that Americans would have been OK with 9/11 if Al Qaeda had put a beautiful spokesmodel on TV to explain their motivations.

We all keep fixating on the "world loves vampires" storyline which we haven't seen much of. At all. What we have seen is that the world hates Slayers. I think this is the important fact. As Allie says later on, he's sure that there are factions who don't buy that vampires are harmless. But they're not important to the story. Just like maybe there were some women in Bewitched Bothered and Bewildered who weren't chasing Xan down hoping to lavish love on him. Did we see them? No. Because they weren't relevant.


It's also really important to not let what Allie says completely guide the expectations of the story. The "vampires in public" name for "Predators and Prey" turned out to be completely misleading since it, in fact, didn't explore vampires much at all after Harmony's debut. Everyone was very disappointed. It's like how if you go in to watch District 9 with certain expectations, you're going to be disappointed by what you get. So to be clear, "talk" about the world loving vampires has been what we've heard the most. Within the story, not so much. In fact, find a line or a situation where it says "the entire world loves vampires"?


All we've seen is that Harmony is popular. That makes sense. She's very much the blonde diva that Hollywood would pump out. And yes, she's not all that evil. She's evil, but meh. It's easy to be overlooked because she acts so human.

All we've really seen from humanity is that the media is fascinated by them and some fringe morbid teenagers want to be vampires. The media is trickling down to affect people's opinions, those who have never laid eyes on a vampire. But mostly, the hostility is directed at Slayers who are busy working in secret and being demonized by Hollywood first, then the media.

That's the focus. That Slayers are now viewed as bad. That's why the "yay vampires" storyline isn't being fleshed out. Because it's not the whole world and because it's not relevant to Buffy's story. The world hating Slayers is relevant though. And all the world has to go on is their videotape of Soledad attacking Harmony and Simone's actions in Rome. Plus a whole bunch of sketchy accounts worldwide, no doubt. The "world hates Slayers" story has been established. Focus on that.

[AndrewCrossett]

I was under the impression that the world hates Slayers specifically because they like and sympathize with vampires.

I would be much more able to buy this scenario if they'd just focused on the anti-Slayer aspect and left the pro-vampire one out.

To say that Slayers are dangerous and scary because they're a shadowy, secretive, dangerous, worldwide paramilitary army that's accountable to no one... that would work. Especially since it's true. Get some video footage of Slayers dusting vampires and tell everyone that these mysterious terrorists have some kind of new disintegration weapon, and are accosting people in alleyways at night and killing them with it. Now that would cause panic and fear and hatred of Slayers.

But to say that they're hated *because* they are protecting humanity from roving packs of self-admittedly evil, demonic killers... does not compute.

The "Slayers are hated and feared" storyline is perfectly plausible to me.... but not for the reasons presented in the story.

(The women in B, B & B were acting that way because they were under a spell... there probably *weren't* any exceptions. But we've seen no evidence, either in the story or from Scott, that the Slayers/vampires situation is due to anything other than 99% of humanity being gullible idiots, it seems.)

It all comes down to the fact that this "social commentary" just doesn't work. It may be true that the public today is gullible and apathetic and lacking in critical thinking skills. But they're also paranoid as hell when they are under attack in their own communities by scary, evil outsiders.

Bah. But it is what it is. I see it as a serious story flaw... the biggest drawback of season 8. But I'm not going to let it spoil my enjoyment.

[NotaViking]

I think the question I asked pretty much gives away my feelings on the subject. I completely agree, AndrewCrossett, that the "slayers are dangerous" plot would work far better by itself, in terms of both believeability and satire. I do see what your saying, Emmie, but if the "world loves vampires" aspect isn't important, then why have it at all?

In fact, find a line or a situation where it says "the entire world loves vampires"?

You're probably correct that there's nothing this explicit in the story itself, but in the recap in the current arc it says "Vampires and humans have found a way to live side by side".

All we've really seen from humanity is that the media is fascinated by them and some fringe morbid teenagers want to be vampires. The media is trickling down to affect people's opinions, those who have never laid eyes on a vampire.

Again, I just can't get past the fact that Harmony's been on TV saying that vampires are evil and kill people.

And as I said over at whedonesque - your epic question 28 was excellent.

[wenxina]

Vampires and humans have kinda worked out this weird quasi-symbiotic relationship. As seen in the "Tales..." one-shot, a bored teen allows himself to be sucked on by vampires for the high. He's not alone, or at least I doubt he is. Yes, it's a young guy... but do you really think that the "vampires are sexy" opinion is shared by a broad demographic?
And as I said before, while establishing Slayers as having superpowers may work in terms of establishing an anti-Slayer sentiment, the pro-vampire viewpoint was established as a by-product of outing Slayers. It was through Harmony's TV show that Slayers were outed. Harmony's show was floundering before then... the producer guy or whatever his role was said so in the tattoo shop, saying that the show was most likely going to be cancelled. It's only when Soledad decided to become the Lauren to Harmony's Heidi (and yes, I actually had to use Wikipedia to make this reference) that the show actually takes off... I wonder why, since sycophants just love empty drama.
Also... having vampires be seen as more trustworthy than Slayers turns everything we've known about the Buffyverse on its head. It's a complete upheaval of the status quo. Having Slayers just be distrusted doesn't quite achieve that; for years, Buffy had to operate in the dark (pun!) under the eye of Snyder and other such suspicious authoritative figures.
The only time that Harmony has said that vampires kill people was on the Cobert Report... which from my limited understanding, is pretty much social satire. Which means that even if she was telling the truth, who would know? The Buffyverse public is notoriously dense about demons and such. Those that know better... well, they would account for a very small minority, given how black ops the Slayer operation is in the first place.

[Hellbound Hyperion]

As seen in the "Tales..." one-shot, a bored teen allows himself to be sucked on by vampires for the high. He's not alone, or at least I doubt he is.

Also not the first time we've seen something similar; Riley in Buffy S5 and the Orpheus drug from the Angelus/Faith arc of Angel S4 spring immediately to mind.

I'm surprised at the lack of hints about Faith: "blah blah anything significant going to happen with Faith? NO SPOILERS FAKSL;JFAOPUERIW". I'd have thought at least a little tiny hint... but nothing? I'm curious to see what's in store for her now.

[AndrewCrossett]

Sept 6, 2009 12:09:15 GMT -5 wenxina said:

The only time that Harmony has said that vampires kill people was on the Cobert Report... which from my limited understanding, is pretty much social satire. Which means that even if she was telling the truth, who would know? The Buffyverse public is notoriously dense about demons and such. Those that know better... well, they would account for a very small minority, given how black ops the Slayer operation is in the first place.

But Colbert already knew vampires were evil... he pointed out to Harmony that she was evil and she agreed. Then she confirmed that vampires don't just suck on people in some kind of symbiotic kinky play... they kill them for food. And can't help doing so.

All of this was treated as common knowledge by Stephen and Harmony.

The fact that Harmony wants to end magic in the world... a wish that is directly, obviously and inexplicably suicidal for her... is even stranger.

Sorry, but short of magical manipulation or some similar fancy storytelling footwork, there's no way this whole situation is going to work for me. I'm just going to have to ignore the illogic as best I can.

My only hope is that all our asking about it will convince Scott that maybe a bit more substantial explication is necessary, somewhere down the line. He seemed to almost admit as much in his answer to Emmie's essay question.

[neowhobaz]

I'm surprised noone's come right out and said the obvious thing about this. It's a parody of twilight and I dont mean the stoic, maniacal big bad of the comic.

All through the season the've been spot on when it comes the the vampy cat and faux Anderson cooper and Larry king. This is clearly supposed to be a play on the twilight series and the phenomena of vampire love its brought on. I don't think its so much about people hating slayers though Harmony clearly isnt helping their public image, it's more about the fascination of something that isn't supposed to be real but now is.

[AndrewCrossett]

Scott Allie: We generally won't answer questions like this, because it ties our hands storywise down the road. I know that frustrates fans, but the story is a live, moving thing, and anything that hasn't been specifically said in the story should be left fluid as we watch the story develop. I'm genuinely curious what that sounds like to you guys. The creative process wants to leave room for as much flexibility and adaptability as possible. But it think fandom works the opposite way. Maybe next time I have to interview you guys.

I think this is a great idea, BTW. How about if in addition to the usual Q&A next time, Scott submits a list of questions for us? Maybe the offer should at least be made.

(And I really hope he's gonna get back to us on the title of Meltzer's arc... I'm dying to know.)

[AndrewCrossett]

Guess he's not going to get back to us about the arc title.

[Emmie]

Sept 10, 2009 12:51:49 GMT -5 AndrewCrossett said:

Guess he's not going to get back to us about the arc title.

He actually got back to me and said he couldn't. That it was too spoiler-y.

[wenxina]

Sept 10, 2009 13:46:41 GMT -5 Emmie said:

Sept 10, 2009 12:51:49 GMT -5 AndrewCrossett said:

Guess he's not going to get back to us about the arc title.

He actually got back to me and said he couldn't. That it was too spoiler-y.

And the suspense builds... thanks a lot Scott, you tease!
Perhaps, for good effect, they'll even delay solicitations...

[AndrewCrossett]

Sept 10, 2009 13:55:22 GMT -5 wenxina said:

Sept 10, 2009 13:46:41 GMT -5 Emmie said:

He actually got back to me and said he couldn't. That it was too spoiler-y.

And the suspense builds... thanks a lot Scott, you tease!
Perhaps, for good effect, they'll even delay solicitations...

I kind of wish they would.

I wonder if one reason for the breaks between arcs is to avoid spoiling too much with solicitations. Especially the hinted 2-month break between Meltzer and Joss. With a 2-month break we wouldn't see the solicitations for #36 until we'd already read #35.

Too spoilery, eh? "Requiem" perhaps?

[wenxina]

As good a place as any to post this I guess. If anyone here attended DragonCon '09, perhaps you could corroborate this slightly confusing report by Geeks of Doom.

Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Season 8 comic book series (Dark Horse) will tentatively conclude at issue #41, according to editor Scott Allie, who sat on a Dark Horse Comics panel at Dragon*Con 2009 earlier this month.

While Allie kept mum on all future plot details, he did say the final story arc would be a four-issue run written by Brad Meltzer (DC’s Identity Crisis mini series, Justice League of America) with art by series regular Georges Jeanty.

Buffy head honcho Joss Whedon will follow up the Meltzer/Jeanty run to tie up loose ends and set the stage for Season 9.

“We will do a Season 9 but there will be a break after Season 8 [ends],” Allie said, with no indication of how long the duration of the break would be.

Allie also said Season 9 could have a different editorial approach, possibly having one creative team as opposed to the rotating crop of writers and artists that was done in Season 8.


Jeanty, who joined Allie on the panel, said he would like to be involved in some capacity for Season 9 but had not made a decision to reprise the role of the book’s regular artist.

The current issue of Buffy Season 8 (#28) hit the shelves September 3.

That's a LOT of issues for tying up loose ends... unless they were mistaken when they reported that Meltzer's arc will be writing the final story arc. Or does that mean that Joss' issues will be less arc-y? Why can't people ever report more completely?! Q&A fodder!

[Emmie]

I love this news that it would be an editorial team more so than the game of passing the football of Season 8. Mutant Enemy Writer's Room FTW!

But yeah, that report was confusing. Even if Joss' story is less arc-y, more Restless coda - that's still 6 issues of non-arc. That just seems unlikely. I'm going with sketchy reporting on this one.

[AndrewCrossett]

My guess is that dealing with Twilight, the Man, will happen during Meltzer's arc. Dealing with Twilight, the Idea, will take a bit longer and will be the real story of season 8.

[wenxina]

6 issues is still a lot of issues to be dealing with the epilogue, though. Talk about a backup of character moments... they saved it all for the very end. Hope that's not the case... 6 issues of talking about "feelings" will get old real fast. BtVS has always juggled feelings with action, and too much of one element at a time is heresy!

[AndrewCrossett]

I think there will be more to it than six issues of denouement. I've suspected for a while that this season's challenge goes well beyond dealing with a man in a silly costume. The consequences of dealing with him may be more of a challenge than actually dealing with him.

[wenxina]

I like epilogues... as long as they're not Harry Potter-esque ones...