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Post by Rebecca on Jul 21, 2009 15:13:21 GMT -5
Rebecca, I do agree with what you are saying, but couldnt that cause an inconsistancy considering if when Buffy died the second time, she came back and was still a Slayer. The Slayer power shouldnt have returned with her, correct? Having the inconsistency in the slayer line to bring about S7 being Willow's resurrection spell is the most consistent with the Boljoxa's Eye scene. I just think that was a retcon because she had already died. Willow's spell was on a larger scale, but Buffy's S5 death and S6 resurrection wasn't even a blip on the slayer line.
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Marcos
Novice Witch
Define "human".[Mo0:30]
Posts: 210
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Post by Marcos on Jul 21, 2009 17:33:26 GMT -5
This topic is really interesting!! Had a blast reading all the history teaching, about the Old Ones and theories on TPB... ;D Andrew, your theory on the TPBs showing up on season 8 or 9, well, congrats man, it's a damn fine storyline, it would be just perfect epic fit to the frakintastic epicness of this season. Buffy's saga is getting bigger and bigger to the point it's kinda of a (delicious and nostalgic) shock go way back to season 1 and rewatch Buffy struggling between patrols and boys and bio or math. Well, the theme of fate and redemption really was more of Angel's league. To me, Angel is (like River), an Existentialist icon. His journey has always been about destiny, purpose, and dealing with it. Buffy is very existentialist too, but the approach differs. In Buffy, it's kinda like
"HOLDEN: Does He exist? Is there word on that, by the way? BUFFY: Nothing solid."I mean, if there was a God or higher powers, it doesn't really matter because it's HER mortal and human butt that is in line. It kinda reminds me of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and the fouth book's "God's message to humanity", which is "we apologise for the inconvenience" . Angel, on the other hand, had the TPB getting in his way since the beggining. I mean, higher beings gave Buffy power and that was it. She was supposed to obey to Watcher's council, but she proved that it wasn't a big deal. Her duty, her destiny, it's a case of "power and responsability", not a case of "follow the higher plan". Angel at first thought that he had to be a "worker of the Highers" to get his redemption. And then came the Shanshu, and all. But the moment he said: "if nothing we do matters then all that matters is what we do"He realized that even though there are higher beings trying to pull the strings, he won't be an obedient puppet anymore. He became more like Buffy, and the show became as existentialist as Buffy (not in the sense that there is no God, but in the sense that if it does, it's irrelevant, not doing much to help. Which is, btw, my own personal belief. We're on our own). But in season 8, the storyline really touches the issue, 'cause her idea of sharing power changed everything that was "supposed" to be. And Twilight is trying to fix that. Which makes me believe that his goal is to fix what Buffy did when she messed with the "higher plans". Is he, maybe, an agent of the PTBs? I guess this season's big philosophical question is: the magical balance that Buffy broke was a matter of higher purpose?? If so, was she really wrong doing it? Or was the balance really important to humanity's integrity, and without it the magic would take over this dimension? In this season, and also on the 7th, the topic of "higher plans" and the TPBs are a perfect fit. So, *karma* for Andrew and his PTB theory.
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Post by Rebecca on Jul 23, 2009 13:56:46 GMT -5
Interestingly, if Buffy does indeed back the de-powering of all slayers including herself, it could be considered a self-shanshu, she could finally be human again, another link to Angel as is the PTB theory Andrew posted.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Aug 8, 2009 9:32:07 GMT -5
Oh, God. This is gonna be even worse than we were expecting, isn't it? So most or all of the Slayers are going to die, and the story is going to be so brutal that we're going to want to kill the storytellers. I'm practicing my fetal position...
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neowhobaz
Respected Watcher
"Beyond the Shadow you settle for, there's miracle illuminated"[Mo0:0]
Posts: 594
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Post by neowhobaz on Aug 8, 2009 14:01:33 GMT -5
well I mean with the whole Fray future I kinda figured it would happen at somept. I tried not to get too attached lol
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Aug 9, 2009 0:28:09 GMT -5
Sgt. Fury, Scott. Sgt. FURY.
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Post by Rebecca on Aug 9, 2009 0:30:56 GMT -5
lol hahaha
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Post by Emmie on Aug 9, 2009 0:50:15 GMT -5
Hee. Nobody's perfect.
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nickb123
Innocent Bystander
Take your time.[Mo0:16]
Posts: 41
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Post by nickb123 on Aug 9, 2009 6:53:26 GMT -5
I don't like how when asked about if Anya, Joyce, Tara will make an appearance - he just says "no plans".... but when you say Spike or Angel he says "no spoilers". My spidey-sense is tingling.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Aug 9, 2009 7:54:09 GMT -5
Well, Joss has just about come out and said that Angel and Spike will make an appearance before the end. ("We have to see our boys" or something like that.)
I'm assuming he's referring only to Dark Horse comics (since Angel: AtF is also canon), and I'm also assuming he's forgotten that Tales of the Slayers and Tales of the Vampires have also always been considered canon.
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Joe
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Obsessive Paranoid Boob
"Gypsies are filthy people! We shall speak of zem no more!" *spits* -Ilona Costa Bianchi[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2,786
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Post by Joe on Aug 9, 2009 8:42:32 GMT -5
Is it just me or his answer to the last question just screaming Dander?
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Aug 9, 2009 9:41:53 GMT -5
Is it just me or his answer to the last question just screaming Dander? Actually, this talk of Xander's "emotional state" (not the first time Scott has used that term when talking about his season arc) makes me think he might be the betrayer. He's been through a hell of a rough time the last couple of seasons and hasn't really dealt with it emotionally... just telling Buffy and Willow that he's dealing with it himself. But the loss of his eye, losing Anya, his year with Dracula, losing Renee... Maybe things will go wrong with Dawn. Maybe Buffy will find out about them and freak out... and Xander will decide Buffy has cost him three girlfriends, an eye, and his dignity, and respond accordingly.
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Post by wenxina on Aug 9, 2009 9:57:07 GMT -5
Responding accordingly would be to quit, leave Tibet, take a nice tour of Europe, and possibly actually take that road trip he was planning on in between S3 and S4. Betraying an old friend because of some grudge would just be... I dunno, kinda strange considering it's Xander. Especially knowing what Twilight has done. This of course only assuming that the betrayal comes after, and isn't ongoing. Which is what you're saying.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Aug 9, 2009 10:03:45 GMT -5
Well, the scenario I envision involves Xander reaching a breaking point and snapping, and doing something he would never, ever consider in a rational state of mind.
And probably having profound remorse later on when he sees the consequences of his actions, and sacrificing his life to help make it right.
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Joe
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Obsessive Paranoid Boob
"Gypsies are filthy people! We shall speak of zem no more!" *spits* -Ilona Costa Bianchi[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2,786
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Post by Joe on Aug 9, 2009 10:24:24 GMT -5
Well, the scenario I envision involves Xander reaching a breaking point and snapping, and doing something he would never, ever consider in a rational state of mind. And probably having profound remorse later on when he sees the consequences of his actions, and sacrificing his life to help make it right. Ooo I really like that idea. I see that happening as well as Dander. I just hope he can make up for it in the future.
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Post by wenxina on Aug 9, 2009 10:29:52 GMT -5
Well, the scenario I envision involves Xander reaching a breaking point and snapping, and doing something he would never, ever consider in a rational state of mind. And probably having profound remorse later on when he sees the consequences of his actions, and sacrificing his life to help make it right. Only problem with that scenario is that it's much better suited for Andrew, and that's pretty much what happened in S7, except, well, he didn't die. But it would go very well with Buffy's ending words to Andrew in #23; the bit about getting used to screwing up when trying to do the right thing because he's one of the family. Xander would be hard sell for me, though. We'll see soon enough.
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Post by diabeticdude202 on Aug 10, 2009 5:53:34 GMT -5
I don't think Xander will be a betrayer to Buffy. I mean, Joss said himself, he could never let something really, really terrible happen to the main core of the Scoobies. In saying that, I know they've been through a lot but they grow from it.Willow went evil, but learnt how to control the power inside by the end of it. Xander lost Anya, and a lot of other things, but learnt how to deal. When he said he was dealing with it himself, I guess it could be viewed as supressing his feelings, causing them to build up inside, but I think maybe the worst thing Xander will do this season is take a life.
I think this season will be another "Xander saved the world" things. But it won't be a defining moment for him. I can see Twilight being revealed and Xander killing him. That's about it. I really don't want to see another shred in the gang. They've been through a lot, and I'm afraid if something really big happens again between them all, they won't recover so easily for a ninth season.
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Post by Rebecca on Aug 10, 2009 14:30:45 GMT -5
Well, not allowing anything major to happen to the main core of the scoobies went right out the window for me when I saw Future Dark Willow. Something MAJOR is happening there, and I believe this is the beginning of a permanent rift between Willow and Buffy. So really, scoobies are fair game, as far as I'm concerned. Which makes me more suspicious of Dawn, who more or less has replaced Giles as one of the "core four". The closest, the most unexpected. Who's closer to Buffy than Dawn? They share the same blood, so in a physical, genetic respect, she is the closest, while also being completely unexpected from Buffy's viewpoint and the audience's. I don't like how when asked about if Anya, Joyce, Tara will make an appearance - he just says "no plans".... but when you say Spike or Angel he says "no spoilers". My spidey-sense is tingling. I think you might be on to something.
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neowhobaz
Respected Watcher
"Beyond the Shadow you settle for, there's miracle illuminated"[Mo0:0]
Posts: 594
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Post by neowhobaz on Aug 10, 2009 19:29:46 GMT -5
Well, not allowing anything major to happen to the main core of the scoobies went right out the window for me when I saw Future Dark Willow. Something MAJOR is happening there, and I believe this is the beginning of a permanent rift between Willow and Buffy. So really, scoobies are fair game, as far as I'm concerned. Which makes me more suspicious of Dawn, who more or less has replaced Giles as one of the "core four". The closest, the most unexpected. Who's closer to Buffy than Dawn? They share the same blood, so in a physical, genetic respect, she is the closest, while also being completely unexpected from Buffy's viewpoint and the audience's. I don't like how when asked about if Anya, Joyce, Tara will make an appearance - he just says "no plans".... but when you say Spike or Angel he says "no spoilers". My spidey-sense is tingling. I think you might be on to something. They said that at the beggining of the series and we have had two appearances...in dreams. I wouldn't rule out seeing Spike or Angel...in fact it would make for a good break if it happened in Joss's one shot after retreat but Even if they are there in flesh and blood, I think it would be similar to the episode Forever(Buffy season 5) where Angel Comes and comforts Buffy...it's nice to see but not important to the story...
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nickb123
Innocent Bystander
Take your time.[Mo0:16]
Posts: 41
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Post by nickb123 on Aug 12, 2009 7:41:03 GMT -5
I'm not sure, it seemed like Joss only allowed AtF IDW would release the rights and allow him to use anyone he wanted from the Angelverse. Maybe Joss did it cause he just wanted the freedom to be able to say "ok we can mention these guys and see them in passing" but it seemed like they were big to the narrative of this season in some way... even if by that they are just in dreams pushing Buffy's psyche.
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