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Post by Skeptic on Jul 17, 2009 18:22:09 GMT -5
I think Willow's way past the point of being able to 'give up' magic. Magic is now as much a part of her as the Slayer is a part of Buffy. You can't just operate and pull the witch/Slayer part out.
Now I know why Superman II has been in the back of my head nagging me incessantly lately. It's that whole scene where he gives up his power so he can lead a normal life and not be responsible for saving the world. I guess I'm wondering if Buffy is about to do something similar, and regret it just as much.
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Post by Skeptic on Jul 17, 2009 14:47:22 GMT -5
Would she have skinned a human enemy to get information from him under similar circumstances? I don't know. But I think we may find out. She skinned that demon!? I thought he was skinless to begin with... Oh god, Will.... Seriously. It's like she's lost her moral compass. It's actually like she and Buffy both have.
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Post by Skeptic on Jul 17, 2009 13:38:07 GMT -5
neowhobaz, you bring up something I'd never wondered about before: if magic is gone, what happens to Buffy, who was brought back to life by magic? I would assume that, once the world is devoid of magic, then all the things that the gods do, and help people do, will be cancelled, null and void, removed from existence, but that it won't be a neat and clean cut, but rather a bloody tearing-out of a deeply-rooted system. If this hurts Willow somehow, and she's connected to Buffy because of the dark magicks she used to resurrect her, what happens to Buffy?
For that matter, Kennedy suffered a mystical death of some sort between Season 7 and 8 and if I understand correctly, Willow brought her back, as well. If magic is gone, is that mystical death null and void? Will she be ok? Will she die for real?
faithswatcher, I do believe that humanity is part of the Big Bad this season. The story is definitely not showing our good side. There are a lot of roadblocks for Buffy and the crew this year, a lot of red herrings to make us wonder who's in cahoots with whom, and which of them is the ultimate Big Bad.
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Post by Skeptic on Jul 15, 2009 21:23:37 GMT -5
Wow, what an interesting cover. I almost feel like it's part old-style supervillain sketch, part stained glass, part chiseled out of stone. And no, at first I didn't like it: the colors didn't actually seem to really match; styles were mixed; the colors and lines were either too soft or way too strong. But now I think I really like it. I had to look it up, but I think that is actually a take on the flag of Tibet: Emmie and Andrew, your thoughts on there possibly being a finite amount of power are intriguing, and I tend to agree with everything you've said so far. I also tend to think that all women didn't end up with the power, because not all women are potentials. I think the mystery of how potentials and slayers actually come into being will always remain a mystery, though. I think we're getting enough small, albeit vague, pieces of the mystery to start trying to piece a bigger picture together, though. I think by the time Season 8 is said and done, we will know more about the Slayers and their existence than we've ever known before. I've long suspected that #30 might be a turning point, since it's a good, round number and occurs right after a tumultous arc. I saw Scott Allie's comment about #30 in the Q&A and feel like we're really switching gears right now, because after this arc, the terrain and landscape changes and the effects and repercussions of the final arcs of the season will resonate and change the whole story - Buffy's, Fray's, the potentials, the slayers, the future - forever. I seriously think this is it - I seriously feel like Joss is slowly turning the boat to face into the sunset. Whatever's coming, though, I'm ready and excited. Unless Satsu gets killed. Then I'm cranky.
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Post by Skeptic on Jul 13, 2009 12:52:19 GMT -5
What's worked for me in the past when trying to get people to watch, is to pick out one thing that would work as a hook for them specifically, and tell them about it. For that one person I converted, who then become a hardcore fan, it was relating Faith's experience to her own. She watched and then had to know more, which meant she started watching the other eps. Someone in their late 30s or older might be interested if you mention that the guy that plays Giles was that handsome, English, Folger's coffee guy from that commercial in the 80s (seriously, he was a superfox and everybody remembers him). Or someone who watches Bones, might be interested to know David got his start on Buffy when he was like 19, and then show them his eps. For someone looking for a positive romantic relationship between two women (or any g/l characters), ask them if they've ever heard of Willow & Tara. There is a lot of truth to the line in that song. "The hook brings you back." So if you just think of the one thing that that person would like, that's the hook. In my experience, going on and on about how awesome the show is and how complex or funny or dark or thematic it is, isn't going to net a conversion as easily as telling them the sexy guy from the Folger's commercial is in it.
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Post by Skeptic on Jul 12, 2009 20:31:26 GMT -5
I finally got my hands on the issue. And so now I've got like 15 or 20 pages of thread to read. I should be done by, oh, next Tuesday. P.S. I thought the issue was great! Felt like it would have been one epic mid-season ep, and it felt like we're really getting into position to start working toward the finale. The last few frames, and especially the final one? Freaking perfection. Jane in the hizzouse!
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Post by Skeptic on Jul 8, 2009 17:36:23 GMT -5
I know, right? It's like they're perfect for each other!
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Post by Skeptic on Jul 8, 2009 17:29:54 GMT -5
If you can believe the gossip, Megan Fox is mouthing off now that she hates doing shows where there's no actual acting involved (Transformers), as if she wants to sail on talent now. And the director of Transformers is complaining that Megan Fox is immature and ridiculous.
LOL
Hollywood: We're Our Own Cancer.
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Post by Skeptic on Jul 7, 2009 21:58:33 GMT -5
I think this is the first episode where I really felt like the "voice" of the show had developed. You can literally take this ep and compare it to several eps in future seasons and it has much the same banter, feel, and tone.
Buffy's really feeling her work, here. She's really feeling that her work means that she's not going to be a normal girl who worries about nail polish and dating. She thinks about ambush tactics and beheadings. Having Cordelia rub it in doesn't help matters.
It's so hard to picture this Cordelia alongside the Cordelia that joined Angel in LA, and later the Cordelia that got a strong taste of character assassination in one of the worst plotlines I've ever seen on TV. I miss this Cordelia. She's witty, razor sharp, and decisive in her attacks, but underneath it all you just know she's trying to figure herself out and is probably feeling scared and lonely like every other teenager. Her coping mechanism is to make everyone else low, so she can feel that much higher.
This is the first time I really noticed Willow, too. She's starting to transform from quiet nerd dressed by mom, to goofy but cute girl testing the waters of adolescence. And she's cementing her friendship with Buffy, and wondering what it'd be like to date a cool guy in a band.
This episode is also when Xander gets his Army guy stuff, which we constantly play back to for the entire series. In fact, the Army guy stuff is front and center in Season 8, and no doubt a big reason why he's the General's right hand.
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Post by Skeptic on Jul 7, 2009 21:34:18 GMT -5
It was explained to her what money meant, really. I don't gather she had much use for it, or had a care about what capitalism or consumerism were, before she was turned human again. All that stuff evolved while she was a demon, and she didn't need money for her work. I gather she was very good at manipulating people for money, if she found she needed it, but if that was so, it was merely a tool on the periphery of the job at hand.
In really simple terms, it was explained that capitalism and consumerism are the keys to survival in our society. If you master both, you're winning the game. And the way to master both is to have command over money. So she realized if she got piles of money, and used it to become a better capitalist, the process would cycle naturally ad infinitum, and she'd become rich, and thus have the power and command. I'm sure in a lot of ways, she meant to master it to take the place of her former job, which she was an ace at.
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Post by Skeptic on Jul 6, 2009 17:29:34 GMT -5
I'm SO cranky. I went by the comic shop and they are out of the issue. They won't get more in until next week. Oh god... I waited so long. Surely I can wait another week? Can't I? I really don't know if I can. I'm trying not to read this thread but I'm dying to, because I want to know what happens and talk about it! Argh.
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Post by Skeptic on Jul 5, 2009 14:15:33 GMT -5
I really wish Jo Chen were able to do the interior art. Because damn, I love it. I love the realism feel of it. The way it looks sketched, artistic, thoughtful, like a person in motion in the world physically, emotionally, mentally.
I also love the inks. I am still just a baby when it comes to comics, but I have learned how hand-in-hand inks and pencils go. You cannot just draw something and have anybody ink it. You must convey feeling, even with ink.
The muted colors really, really work well for this. Skin is pale, red is maroon, pastels paint the backdrop, greys are subtle but evoke the feeling that this is happening in a dark place. All the colors are washed out and just not quite right, further conveying that this is a dream.
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Post by Skeptic on Jul 4, 2009 18:58:21 GMT -5
I thought the title of this thread meant something completely different lol. "Did Buffy fall after dying in the Gift?". I thought you were wondering if Buffy got worse and lost peoples interest after season five i did 2 at first! Not to thread hijack, but dude, I love your icon/banner. Where's it from??
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Post by Skeptic on Jul 4, 2009 18:55:42 GMT -5
How many hours of footage are there of Buffy/Angel stuff, between the two shows? I've always been curious about that, in terms of who Buffy ultimately had the most 'relationship time' onscreen with. I'm tempted to say it's Riley, oddly enough.
I'm not a crewman on the SS Bangel, but I sure appreciate the position Angel has in Buffy's life and what they mean to each other. In the be-all, end-all, even though I doubt they'll ever be a couple again, and they may both move on with life, I think they'll always have the kind of connection that allows them to revisit each other and have it feel like they've never skipped a moment in time. I have an ex like that. We dated before we both realized we were gay (lol) but he's exactly the kind of person I can not talk to for 5 years, then get in touch with again, and the connection is as close and deeply loving as it always was.
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Post by Skeptic on Jul 4, 2009 18:31:06 GMT -5
Wow, that last one is just....BAD. They're imaginative and obviously somebody put a lot of work into them. I can definitely say I like the idea, and it's very creative. That said, wth is Buffy wearing and what's wrong with her legs? I like that Kennedy is itty bitty. Edit: Shouldn't this be in the S8 section?
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Post by Skeptic on Jul 3, 2009 20:07:12 GMT -5
Wow, I didn't even think of that. I kept looking at the hand, and wondering about it, but it didn't even dawn on me for some reason that they weren't fighting humans in that scene.
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Post by Skeptic on Jul 3, 2009 13:20:19 GMT -5
A lot of people mention Buffy/Satsu as experimental. Where they get that idea, I don't know. The only things Buffy said or felt before she landed in bed with her were her feelings of lonliness, and missing sex. She took whatever Satsu offered her that night because she needed it, not because she was voicing curiosity suddenly about sleeping with women. Buffy has never been one to take sex just randomly, for the sake of sex. Even with Spike, she needed connection, passion.
I haven't put much thought into the Spangel thing, except that dreams often tell us things in an offhand way. Could be that Buffy's worried that she was never enough for either of them, or that she feels like she never understood what they really wanted. Vampires have more in common with vampires, and slayers with slayers. Makes sense that that would also extend to the bedroom. Maybe it's also her brain's strange way of telling her that.
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Post by Skeptic on Jul 2, 2009 17:12:01 GMT -5
I like your theory Unkle. I like the idea that they're going to try everything to stop the future from happening and this is exactly what is going to bring it about. How perfect. How beautiful. I really think this is turning into a classic tragedy. Tragedies, done well, are very moving - painfully beautiful - deeply stirring, deeply memorable. God knows Joss can spin a comedic line that can have you in stitches, but he also knows how to tell a tale that will break your heart. Willow's and Buffy's friendship is one of the best parts of BtVS, IMO. They have been through hell and high water together, they've both fought each other, truly hated each other, healed each other, been distanced, seen lovers come and go, parents die, made colossal mistakes, and they still love each other. I know Buffy loves Xander as well, and he's irreplaceable to her, but her friendship with Willow is special in a really unique way. Anyway, it just makes sense to me that Joss is poking that friendship and seeing what trials and tests it can withstand. After Buffy had killed Willow in the future, then ran back and cried in Willow's arms, I went back and watched "Welcome to the Hellmouth" and got a serious lump in my throat. These characters were so young and naive, and even smiled a lot. To look at them now, you can tell they've "been through the wars", as they say.
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Post by Skeptic on Jul 2, 2009 16:39:33 GMT -5
I'm not even sure there's rhyme or reason behind the wedding dream. I think maybe it's a cross between standard dream stuff that makes no sense whatsoever, and stuff your brain is actually trying to rationally make sense of. And if you look at many of the people attending the wedding, there are more than a few who represent some of the crossroads Buffy's come to in her life. Something significant happened in her life with several of the attendees, or they represent something that happened.
I like how Sweet is sitting in the very back row, hanging out by himself, just looking kind of bored or unamused. Sweet's appearance in the show was a major turning point for Buffy, because it marks a time when she not only openly showed that she was unsatisfied with pretty much everything since her resurrection, but she revealed that Willow had torn her from heaven. This knowledge helps later spur Willow into deciding to abuse magic, which also marks a major turning point for Willow. After this point, both are irrevocably changed and neither can go back and undo what was done. Buffy can't be un-resurrected and Willow can't stop being a part of magic.
And although Faith wasn't in this one-shot (is it called a one-shot?), I think (hope) we'll deal with her a little more head-on later.
And semi-tangent: I'd like to know what Buffy feels about Faith, at all. Faith is one of the few people that has had earthquake-sized impact on Buffy's life, and yet there's nary a peep about her. We got Faith and Buffy fighting, again, but no damage control after. Not a solitary thought about it. Not a moment where Buffy even wishes she had someone to vent to about it. It's suddenly like Faith, who is a major player, just isn't significant. And then when we're more than ready to check in with her and Giles, their issue is like it's written by someone who has no idea who the characters are, the issues they're facing, or how they act and react to their work. I feel like we've been baited and then kinda jipped, with regards to Faith.
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Post by Skeptic on Jul 1, 2009 23:17:29 GMT -5
May I jump in with an observation? Since we're now talking about Dawn in connection with the betrayal room... Conversations With Dead People anyone? "When the time comes, Buffy won't choose you... she'll be against you." Or am I the one reading too deep now? Even if you feel like you might be, it's entirely possible Joss felt like doing something more substantial with that line, and felt like it could fit with this arc. I really like the idea. ETA:
What line in Living doll made you think Buffy was ready to kill dawn? The very last one. Call it a portend. And in general, the last page, plus a panel or two on the previous one. It's all about this same stuff: Buffy worrying that she can't protect Dawn from herself (herself, being, her world, being as dangerous as it is to live in, and herself, being, Buffy). I know Buffy meant it as a joke to Dawn, but the funny thing about life (and also about Joss) is that the moment you crack a joke about something you've always feared, you're screwed.
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