Skeptic
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Post by Skeptic on Jul 1, 2009 23:05:33 GMT -5
I don't believe she actually wanted to kill Dawn, but she admitted it had crossed her mind (S5? to Giles? drawing a blank here), if it would ever become necessary to stop Glory. The dream during her catatonia was a result of her fear that it would happen, either: that it would become necessary to kill Dawn, or that Dawn would die just because everybody always dies around Buffy. Either way, her fear was that she wouldn't be able to ever really protect her sister from herself.
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Skeptic
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Post by Skeptic on Jul 1, 2009 21:34:48 GMT -5
Hey, welcome! That's a great post.
My speculation about future Willow is that she survived because Buffy eventually told her (in present day) about what happened. Which set into motion a chain of events that led to the future Willow existing.
Other theories: Magic is banished from the world because of Buffy. Probably has something to do with that final battle talked about in "Fray"; and with the threat of magic disappearing, Willow may disappear, so Willow takes magic "into" herself and literally becomes magic, which renders her immortal.
But Buffy dies in the process, or gets sucked into a hell dimension, or something.
Magic is Willow, Willow is magic, so if magic goes, Willow will die. I don't think Willow wants to die, and I think she would probably beg and plead with Buffy if there was some other way, and if there wasn't, who knows, she might feel like it's inevitable (especially if Buffy had already told her about future Willow), and kill Buffy to stop her.
So my theory on the betrayal is that Buffy betrays Willow, Willow betrays Buffy, and they both betray themselves. They kill each other for the greater good, not knowing that doing so brings about the whole cycle.
Sooo... that's my theory right now. In drama, the most obvious betrayer is always the best friend, and the most pain is always love.
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Post by Skeptic on Jul 1, 2009 21:19:25 GMT -5
"Everybody die always" + posture & heavy brow = Beer Bad Buffy
Gotta say, this was pretty damn funny but also pretty curious and obviously there's a lot more going on than is immediately obvious. This has got to be one of Buffy's dreams, what with it being a lot about her personal fears, mixed with a little bit of the future visions. I wonder if this is the first time Buffy's dreamt of the fight in the stone room?
Xander as an anime character was... unique. I wanna read deep into that. If I try hard enough, I'm sure I could connect it to "Antique" (his Dracula days), where he was drawn really cartoony, and Buffy's dream in TLWH2 where Buffy wants to go to bed with him, and Buffy sleeping in his bed in "After These Messages..." but I'm not gonna try that hard.
The title itself "Always Darkest [Before the Dawn]". Buffy's dreams in "Restless" mentioned Dawn before she ever showed up. In "Living Doll", the last few lines of the issue might have even been an anvil; god knows Buffy's had nightmares before about killing Dawn, and has even confessed it's crossed her mind. I just see the comic drawing connections and asking what should be made of them. To me, the title, including the part that can be inferred, "Before the Dawn", is a reference to her sister and the betrayal in the stone room.
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Skeptic
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Post by Skeptic on Jul 1, 2009 20:36:56 GMT -5
Twilight is Buffy. Yes! What? C'mon, the thought hasn't crossed your minds? (if I win, I rule the world!)
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Post by Skeptic on Jul 1, 2009 14:51:28 GMT -5
Anyways like I said, you tell me what's wrong here; Ep ; Grave, s6, 31:40ish Buffy's missing her lower torso?
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Post by Skeptic on Jun 29, 2009 22:34:25 GMT -5
Sounds like it's going to be a fascinating read. One of the first things that jumps right out at me is Buffy's attitude over the seasons, going from, basically: I don't want this job and we should do what's right all the time; to: I'm the slayer, and hence I'm the only law, and everything and everyone will go my way or we'll have a problem. The problem might be dealing with Buffy's anger for getting in her way, like when she went to go kill Anya, or the problem might be not falling into step with her orders, like the infamous "Everyone sucks but me" speech from Season 7's "Get It Done": ( Buffy Dialogue Database) Other good examples of law and morality: Warren killing his ex-girlfriend, and Andrew submissively allowing Warren to get away with it, while Jonathan wants to go to the authorities. Andrew had a line that Warren crossed, but he was more willing to grey that line out, whereas Jonathan struggled with the idea of keeping his morality about sexual assault and murder black and white, or grey. The whole situation with Warren's ex and the purpose they had her there is still one of the few things in the series that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Anya agreed to D'Hoffryn to pay by law for the crime of wishing back the lives of all the frat boys she killed in Season 7. She recognized she had broken the law in the human realm, and she felt the moral consequences (guilt, sorrow, revulsion). But instead of going to the police, she went the route of having the killings undone, and was going to offer herself in exchange. There was a penalty that she didn't know she would have to pay for breaking D'Hoffryn's law, though, and that was sacrificing her friend Hallie. It was self-sacrificing of her to give herself to D'Hoffryn to get those lives back, but arrogant of her to think that justice would be served on her terms.
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Post by Skeptic on Jun 29, 2009 22:09:36 GMT -5
Money and other reasons that would make no sense if I explained them, unless you knew the circumstances, which I won't bore you with.
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Post by Skeptic on Jun 29, 2009 13:44:45 GMT -5
Oh god, it really sucks that I can't be there. Me and a friend (actually, the girl that I converted into a hardcore Buffy fan) were going to go to the con this year. Had a frakking brilliant suite booked, all the luxuries, overlooking the water, and everything. For months we talked and planned. Sooo excited.
Turns out neither of us can attend.
*weep softly*
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Post by Skeptic on Jun 29, 2009 13:07:48 GMT -5
Don't forget to check out the Joss written, and Jo Chen pencilled MDHP tie-in too. It's a good week to be a Buffyverse fan... I think the Lynch/Urru terrible duoship has the Gunn one-shot coming out too... Is the Whedon/Chen tie-in out yet? It's going to be on the same website as the other tie-ins, isn't it? Whoa, can you guys link me? I know I had that bookmarked somewhere but it must've got eaten by the other bookmarks. Wednesday is a loooong day at school for me. Same with Thursday. I probably won't be getting the issue til Friday. I've waited this long, I think I can hold on...
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Post by Skeptic on Jun 28, 2009 18:32:17 GMT -5
Whoa... this was the "haters" thread? I was just curious. I didn't see that one anymore, and suddenly there was this one, so I decided to finally take a peek. I avoided the one called haters... because even though I have some issues with some various things in BtVS, including S6, I definitely don't hate BtVS or S6. And as Paul said above, it was depressing looking at the thread title. S6 is actually when I came aboard the fandom. So, I have a soft spot for it, I guess. I enjoy the harsh reality of it, and the dark drama of it, but in all, it ends up being the least-watched of all the seasons for me. It's so intense. I think some of the best writing of the series went on in S6, too, including OMWF, which is one of the most genius things I've ever seen in my life (wouldn't it be cool if OMWF was a full-length Broadway play?), but the overall tone of the season is darkness. And not just any darkness, but Buffy's. The whole season was a giant exercise in welcome-to-my-hell. Buffy went through the darkest period in her life in the season, which only seemed to get darker at the end. Between the crap Willow was doing, and the bullshit Spike tried, those were probably the darkest days ever on this show. To me, though, I see a sort of natural continuation from S6, all the way through S7 and into S8. It's all focused on Buffy's issues, most especially her loneliness she's really had a hard time with since she was resurrected. And in regards to her resurrection, to me, that is an enormous violation as well. Spike attacked and tried to rape Buffy. I can't ever condone such a thing, but in Spike's warped mind, he was trying to love her. Even chipped, Spike is still a demon, though, and could not be trusted. Buffy's mistake was trusting him and Spike's mistake was thinking he could be a better man, when in reality his was obsessed, stalkery, and then violent. But Willow also did something horrible to Buffy. One can argue that Willow did what she did because she loved her, and she wanted her to be safe and happy. However, in all the time that Buffy was gone, it never even crossed her mind that Buffy might actually have died and gone on to some sort of happy afterlife, and wanted to stay dead. By the time S6 rolls around, we're getting to see something different in Willow, as well: she's got too much power, and she often only uses it for her own benefit, and sees what she does as a favor to everyone else. The confrontation she and Giles had in the kitchen after he came back to Sunny-D, and the confrontation they have at the end of the season, is proof, not to mention all the abusive things Willow does with magic all during the season. I would think that, if I were Buffy, I would also not be able to easily forgive Willow. The act of resurrection was also a physically violent and terrifying ordeal for Buffy, and its an event that's still echoing in her life even now. My 2 cents for now. Sammich time. Gumgnome's banner is making me hungry. lol
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Skeptic
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Post by Skeptic on Jun 28, 2009 18:12:31 GMT -5
The reboot can suck it. The motion comics I'm looking forward to, though.
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Post by Skeptic on Jun 27, 2009 16:54:47 GMT -5
I don't think Buffy has what it takes to kill someone dear to her. Angel just heard you say that, and busted out laughing. And Willow. She also has no problem running over someone dear to her, to kill someone dear to them. Xander, Anya. And part of me thinks she would have killed Willow if that was the only way, back in S6. She just delayed the inevitable with that...
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Post by Skeptic on Jun 27, 2009 0:37:38 GMT -5
Oh, duh. See? Already forgetting the story and there's only 5 pages to remember. lol Guess it can also be chalked up to just not really feelin' the big retreat due to poor storytelling last time. But the new arc kicks off in a few days, so I'm happy.
There are about 10 squads, I think, but not all the slayers are in squads, only those who the Scoobies were able to round up after the fall of Sunnydale. Buffy's got the biggest squad, of 500. With the Tokyo contingent, plus those that Willow brought, etc. there must be several hundred at the secret hideout on the "island". I would hazard a guess that there are still at least as many still on the outside, either in squads, or running around loose. My guess is the squads are probably trying to assemble together? Strength in numbers? Maybe there's a plan for this.
God, I really can hardly wait for the next few issues. I have so many questions, and so many theories, it's hard to not let my imagination run completely away.
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Post by Skeptic on Jun 26, 2009 22:01:33 GMT -5
Bwah! Andrew's comment about decorating was a real knee-slapper. I was totally in the moment for that one. I can't believe that just in one page, the dialogue and pacing felt so right, when the pacing and dialogue have been my chief complaints over the last arc, primarily.
Still, I feel like we're being left hanging in the breeze as to the how, when, and why of all the various squads going underground. Obviously, this has been a concerted effort. No small feat. Get all the girls (aren't there about 1500?) into hiding. But I'd loved to have seen the moment of epiphany Buffy obviously had when she realized this fighting Twilight thing wasn't going to work, and now was the time to beat retreat and disappear. We know our girl Buffy - she does not like to leave a battle and admit defeat. She has learned from the experiences in S7, though; it's a shame we didn't get to see her go through the moment of realizing the order needed to be given, and giving it.
I'm still trying to figure out from which direction all the commanders are coming from. Andrew is hiding in Rome. What about the squads in Cleveland (Robin), Chicago (Rona), etc. the other US-based squads. Wonder if they're all meeting together to go underground and await orders? Satsu's in Tokyo, I assume we'll see her shepherding her girls to safety next, followed by other squads. This issue so far has literally been the actual retreat of the slayers.
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Post by Skeptic on Jun 26, 2009 14:23:21 GMT -5
One so far, and she really started watching because the Faith character was intriguing to her and she thought Eliza was hot. So she started watching Buffy with only the Faith stuff, then she had to know what was happening and why, and started watching the rest. But, she's a really hardcore fan now. Following S8, inhales fanfic, can discuss the show for hours. Do I get bonus points for that?
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Post by Skeptic on Jun 26, 2009 12:40:17 GMT -5
This is a very interesting question, Neil. But it's possibly just trying to read too deeply into what Joss intended with having the Slayer-ness split. I think I know what you're asking, though. If 2 of the mother's eggs were fertilized, we get fraternal twins, so obviously only the female one gets the Slayer-ness. The male one (in theory, I guess) gets nothing. But somehow, Harth got half, even though he was from another egg. So, why are the slayer powers split? Could be because they are just twins. Sharing the same space during creation. Or could be because the re-introduction of magic to the world caused something to go bzzzzt! when the Slayer line came back into being, and the mother having two fetuses, when Mel was potential-ized, Harth was as well.
It's pretty interesting stuff to me. But I think for the purposes of the story, it's possibly reading too deeply into it. I think Joss' goal was probably just to throw a spanner in the works by saying that somehow, in this post-Battle-of-Starbucks-world, a male child got half the slayer powers. I don't think it means Harth would be capable of passing the "Slayer chromosome" on, though, since all we know up until Mel & Harth is that it's not a thing that's passed by genes. It's passed by whatever mystical forces have been at work since the First Slayer was created.
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Skeptic
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Post by Skeptic on Jun 26, 2009 12:12:08 GMT -5
I'm totally jonesin' to see this movie. Been a while since I've seen a really decent horror flick.
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Post by Skeptic on Jun 26, 2009 12:11:07 GMT -5
Oh god...
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Post by Skeptic on Jun 26, 2009 12:07:46 GMT -5
Not loving the anti- Season Eight slant to this discussion. "Oh, Buffy must be crazy because S8 is just so unbelievable!!" Uh, whatever. In the show, Buffy can fight Dracula and robots and hellgoddesses and nobody blinks an eye. But in the comics, she lives in a castle and all of a sudden she's ker-azy! The mental hospital thing was from Season 6, though. So it's been a running theme, beneath everything since then, albeit it's a running theme nobody likes to discuss. Blame Joss for throwing it out there, though, for even planting the seed of doubt in the first place. Apparently his intent with the ending was ambiguity, so we can all ask ourselves the question from time to time: is this real or not?
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Post by Skeptic on Jun 25, 2009 19:50:49 GMT -5
Whoa! Had no idea. Hope he had a great day!
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