AngelFaith
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
I rolled the bones. You for me.
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Post by AngelFaith on Apr 13, 2010 2:48:59 GMT -5
Oz. (Btw, I love this game! Jumping on in!)
"You always open both doors when you enter a room?"
"And here I was thinking revenge."
"Go where?"
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AngelFaith
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
I rolled the bones. You for me.
My forgottendreamer[Mo0:12]
Posts: 641
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Post by AngelFaith on Apr 12, 2010 20:17:43 GMT -5
Second - Someone said earlier that Spike and Buffy was so violent and degrading, but I think that was the point. Up to that pont Buffy had been put on a Pedastool and we all loved her for having the answers and being in control but when she feels like she's fallen off that 'throne' then she dosnt care anymore and acts as low as she feels. I know it's the whole point, but for me it was never about Buffy "falling off a pedestal" because I never idolized her in the first place, she is actually one of my least favourite characters (I know this is going to open up the whole if-you-don't-like-the-main-character-why-do-you-like-the-show thing, but that's better left for another time). The reason I hate the relationship (at least in Season 6) is because it parallels an abusive relationship way too much - both ways. I don't like the violence and the abuse that they both dish out. I have a hard time watching a lot of scenes, the sex is way to animal, empty and degrading and Buffy hates herself so much and Spike revels in her pain and disgust way too much. Come Season 7 it's much better and I actually like the friendship.
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AngelFaith
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
I rolled the bones. You for me.
My forgottendreamer[Mo0:12]
Posts: 641
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Post by AngelFaith on Apr 10, 2010 23:10:29 GMT -5
Which ships can you just not stand? Mine are:
Angel/Cordy (I loved their friendship, but I just felt they had no romantic chemistry) Spike/Buffy (Too violent, too brutal, too degrading) Willow/Kennedy (I just never liked that they moved Willow on that quickly. I mean, it was less than a year after Tara's death) Willow/Xander (I know this one's not really a canon ship, but I never liked the idea of them together)
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AngelFaith
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
I rolled the bones. You for me.
My forgottendreamer[Mo0:12]
Posts: 641
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Post by AngelFaith on Apr 10, 2010 22:59:12 GMT -5
This definitely always bugged me. As people have pointed out, Willow could have easily gotten a part-time job to help Buffy out. Or even moved back home or back on-campus once Buffy came back to life. There was no reason for her to still be in the house, except if she was helping out.
And now that I think about it, where did Willow get money from? I mean, we see her over the later seasons buying magic supplies, always in new clothes, taking Dawn out for burgers/movies etc. Did she just hit up her parents whenever she felt like it? That goes for Buffy and Tara too (Buffy pre-Joyce's death, obviously). None of these girls had jobs and I don't think America has Austudy like we do in Australia.
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AngelFaith
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
I rolled the bones. You for me.
My forgottendreamer[Mo0:12]
Posts: 641
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Post by AngelFaith on Apr 9, 2010 2:17:29 GMT -5
Would she get her soul back during the transformation or would she be a soulless human? That would be an interesting concept. I think that could have been really interesting if they had had a truly soulless human in the Buffyverse. The dynamics would have been different from the vamps. It could have been really cool. I was always disappointed by that. Again, it could have been so interesting to see what would have happend if a Slayer had been vamped. Would they have been turned into some sort of uber-vampire? Lots of possibilites there.
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AngelFaith
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
I rolled the bones. You for me.
My forgottendreamer[Mo0:12]
Posts: 641
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Post by AngelFaith on Apr 9, 2010 1:45:03 GMT -5
Wow, way too many to choose from. I'll try to narrow it down to my absolute favourites.
-I Will Remember You "I'll never forget, I'll never forget" -Hero as Angel realises what Doyle is about to do and yells out "Doyle! DOYLE!" Breaks my heart every time -Five By Five Faith in the rain, begging Angel to kill her "Just do it, Angel, please just do it!" -Home when Lilah finds Wes down in file storage and realises that he's trying to burn her contract with Wolfram & Hart -Quickening when Darla and Angel both realise that she's carrying a human child and Darla breaks down in Angel's arms "Not my baby!"
There are so many more, but those top the list.
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AngelFaith
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
I rolled the bones. You for me.
My forgottendreamer[Mo0:12]
Posts: 641
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Post by AngelFaith on Apr 9, 2010 1:26:33 GMT -5
Without a doubt, Tara. I was so devastated when she died. She's one of my favourite characters and her and Willow are one of my favourite couples. They just fit together so perfectly. Plus then Kennedy could disappear, so bonuses all round.
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AngelFaith
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
I rolled the bones. You for me.
My forgottendreamer[Mo0:12]
Posts: 641
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Post by AngelFaith on Mar 30, 2010 0:37:19 GMT -5
Shouldn't this be in the shipper threads? Yeah, I realised that once I'd put up both threads. I'm a newbie, still feeling my way around. Apologies
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AngelFaith
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
I rolled the bones. You for me.
My forgottendreamer[Mo0:12]
Posts: 641
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Post by AngelFaith on Mar 29, 2010 21:09:47 GMT -5
angelfaith is my new favourite member of the week for that, couldn't have summed up better myself. Ooh, thanks EvilWillow! I feel so loved
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AngelFaith
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
I rolled the bones. You for me.
My forgottendreamer[Mo0:12]
Posts: 641
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Post by AngelFaith on Mar 29, 2010 21:06:35 GMT -5
Now it’s no secret that I can’t stand the Spike/Buffy relationship. That said, I do find the relationship fascinating – the dynamics, the abuse and the aftermath of Spike getting his soul back.
Now I might hate Spike and Buffy together but I do believe that Spike did love her. Yeah, before he got his soul it was an obsessive very unhealthy love, but it was love all the same. And that is what I believe motivated him to do all the “good” that he did. I mean, the chip in his brain prevented him from killing, so he needed to get his yayas somehow. Beating up on demons seems a good way to get his violence in. But all the other good he does – protecting Dawn etc., is driven purely by his obsession with Buffy. After Glory tortures him to get information on the key, Spike confesses to Buffy (posing as the Bot) that he did it because losing Dawn would tear Buffy apart. Notice that he doesn’t say that he did it for Dawn – it was for Buffy.
Their sexual relationship in Season 6 is what fascinates and repulses me the most. It is such a horrendous relationship – they abuse one another, tear each other down, f*** each other (it cannot be described in any other way) senseless and keep coming back for more. What they do together obviously repulses Buffy – she confesses to Tara how disgusted she is with herself, how much she hates herself and Spike for it, but on some level she does need him. She keeps coming back. I think that she does feel for him as well but that it is nothing on what she will come to feel for him in Season 7. She needs him on a basic level, to feel alive, to feel anything, but this leaves her feeling empty and full of self-loathing and at the same time she hates him as well. It is obviously not healthy and she takes her hatred out on Spike, the same way he takes his hatred out on her. The whole relationship is degrading, horrendous and damaging to both of them.
I can’t write about Spike and Buffy without mentioning the attempted rape. I know that Spike didn’t have a soul, but I can’t ignore the fact that Spike loved Buffy when he did this to her. The Spuffy’s like to go on about how Spike did good even without a soul but when it comes to the attempted rape they fall back on the whole “Spike didn’t have a soul” defence. What’s interesting is that of all of Spike’s crimes, attempting to rape Buffy is perhaps the most human of all of them. The attempted rape is one of the main reasons I hate the Spike/Buffy relationship. I find it unforgiveable and it probably forever had an effect on Buffy. I doubt, no matter what her feelings for Spike were, that she would ever be able to have a sexual relationship with him again.
Now, I do believe that Buffy developed feelings for Spike as early as Season 6. As I said before, as much as she hates herself for sleeping with him, she does need him on some sort of level. I think after he got his soul back she began to trust him again and by the end of Season 7 she cared for and needed him. I don’t believe that she was in love with him – Spike himself didn’t believe it, shown by what he said in Chosen “No you don’t. But thanks for saying it.” Buffy’s look after he says this seems to confirm it.
Ultimately, even though there were real feelings there in the end, so much of their relationship was caught up in violence, abuse and hatred that it’s hard to understand how it was sustained. In the end I don’t think they could ever be together but I think Buffy will always feel something, no matter how small, for Spike.
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AngelFaith
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
I rolled the bones. You for me.
My forgottendreamer[Mo0:12]
Posts: 641
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Post by AngelFaith on Mar 29, 2010 21:05:42 GMT -5
Warning, this is going to be a long post. I’m bored and feel like getting my thoughts about Angel/Angelus/ Buffy out. Btw, I’ll also be posting another thread on Spike/Buffy. Nehoo, read on.
It is my firm belief that Angel and Buffy are true soulmates. That said, that doesn’t mean that they will end up together or that, ultimately, they even belong together. In my way of thinking, soul mates means that they are connected at the deepest and most spiritual level. They can feel the other one when they can’t see them. They never seem to be able to break away completely. Even though they both go off and fall for other people they still have an unbreakable bond. Every time they meet after Angel leaves Sunnydale they become physical and the topic of their relationship comes up. They can’t be together and yet they don’t seem to stop wanting to be. They both know the obstacles and yet they both seem to hold onto some tiny glimmer of hope. That said, I honestly don’t think they could ever make it work between them.
Now, it really grates my cheese when people lean on the “Buffy was in highschool, so it wasn’t real love” defence. Because, quite frankly, it’s crap. Just because a romance starts in highschool, doesn’t mean it can’t be a valid, deep relationship. Buffy and Angel were clearly in love, even though she was young. That doesn’t mean that her feelings were shallow, or based purely on her hormones. She loved Angel. She couldn’t kill him after he turned, even after he killed Jenny. It wasn’t untill the world was literally about to end that she did what she needed to, resulting in a near-breakdown and a summer vacation in Hell.
Now Angelus, he’s interesting. He’s a creature of pure evil and the things he did to Buffy and her friends were horrendous. His love of torture, the way he plans every single move is fascinating. It’s not enough for him to just kill Buffy – he wants to make her pay for the fact that Angel fell in love with her. For the fact that he can still taste the humanity she left in Angel’s mouth.
I think the reason that I (and most Bangels) find it easy to forgive Angel for all his evil acts is because Angel and Angelus are so often portrayed as two separate entities that just happen to exist in the same body. Angel makes several references to the demon that lives inside his body (ie. Angelus) and the Angel episode Orpheus even goes as far as to show the two separate personas battling inside Angel’s mind. Angelus is a horrifying creature, and when I think of how he tortured Giles, killed Jenny and stalked Buffy I find myself hating Angel a bit. But, as I said, the way they have portrayed Angel and Angelus on both shows makes it easier for us to keep them as separate entities and therefore let’s us still love Angel despite the evil he’s done as Angelus.
Bottom line, I love Buffy and Angel together. That doesn’t mean that I have blinders on and believe that they can sort through the emotional mountain of baggage that they have piled between them or that Angel is some soulful, wonderful vampire. He has done evil even with a soul and I am well aware of that. But I believe that they will never be able to completely break free of each other – some part of them will always belong to the other, despite who they end up with in the end.
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AngelFaith
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
I rolled the bones. You for me.
My forgottendreamer[Mo0:12]
Posts: 641
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Post by AngelFaith on Mar 29, 2010 1:42:42 GMT -5
I'll totally jump on this bandwagon! I cannot stand Twilight (well, maybe except the fourth book, that was was o-kay. Not fabulous). I think the problem is that nothing happens in these books! Well, next to nothing. There are pages and pages that don't move the plot along at all. Allow me to sum up all the books Twilight -Edward -Vampire -In Love -Bitten -Saved New Moon -Edward -Depression -Werewolves -Italy -Proposal Eclipse -Edward -Jacob -Edward -Jacob -Newborn Vampires -Engaged Breaking Dawn -Married -Pregnant -Baby -Vampire -Volturi -The End
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AngelFaith
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
I rolled the bones. You for me.
My forgottendreamer[Mo0:12]
Posts: 641
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Post by AngelFaith on Mar 29, 2010 1:16:10 GMT -5
1. Do you prefer Faith pre jailtime or post jailtime? Post jailtime Faith, but I still love pre jailtime Faith almost as much.
2. Do you think she's sexy? Oh God yes. I'd totally swing for her.
3. Who would you like to see her with? Did you like her with Principal Wood or Xander? Wood, definitely. They had good chemistry, plus I liked that he wouldn't stand for her "Isolationist Slayer Crap."
4. What is your favorite Faith moment? -Any moments she has with the Mayor -When she breaks out of jail to save Angel -When she refuses to kill Angelus because Angel is the only person who's ever believed in her -Her in the rain, begging Angel to kill her -When she calls Buffy out during "Empty Places"
5. What is your least favorite Faith moment? I don't like it when she tortures Wesley. I know she's trying to get Angel to kill her, but oh my God, poor Wes!
6. What is your favorite episode featuring Faith? On Buffy: Dirty Girls, Empty Places. This Year's Girl In Angel: Five by Five, Orpheus
7. What is your least favorite episode featuring Faith? Who Are You, because it's the only episode where the character of Faith gets more screen time than Buffy and we are subjected to Sarah's poor impersonation.
8. Why do you think Faith(In Buffy's Body in Who Are You) asked Riley Who are you? What do you want with her? And says this is meaningless? She obviously freaks out because she has never connected with anyone on that sort of level. To her, sex is meaningless, a way to escape so she doesn't know how to react when someone says "I love you." It is completely foreign to her.
9. Just how much do you really think Buffy would have to change to be like Faith? It wouldn't be about Buffy changing, it woudld be about Buffy's circumstances changing - she would need abusive parents, no Watcher, no friends and no stability.
10. What relationship do you think Faith and the Mayor really had? It was definitely a very loving father-daughter relationship. The Mayor feels very deeply for her (he puts The Ascension on hold when he thinks she's missing in Graduation Day) and Faith obviously loves him back. I think he is the first person in her life who has accepted her for who she is and doesn't betray her in some way.
11. How would you describe Faith? Tough, jaded, self-destructive, strong, spunky and, quite simply, awesome
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AngelFaith
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
I rolled the bones. You for me.
My forgottendreamer[Mo0:12]
Posts: 641
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Post by AngelFaith on Mar 29, 2010 1:03:02 GMT -5
1. Which season Buffy do you like? I don't mind Season 1 Buffy or Season 2 Buffy.
2. Do you think Buffy's sexy? She's cute and she has some sexy moments, but overall she doesn't really have that sexy "edge".
3. Who do you prefer her with Angel, Riley or Spike? Angel. I truly believe that they are soulmates, even though their relationship has so many obstacles. That said, I don't know if they would ever be able to really make it work.
4. What was her best moment? When she willingly goes down into the Master's lair, knowing that she is going to die but that it's the right thing to do.
5. What was her worst moment? Oh God, too many to list. Let's see: -The entirety of When She Was Bad -Her constant abuse of Spike in Season 6 (although that goes both ways) -Her "Everybody sucks but me" speech in "Get It Done" -Her indignation that Xander was "spying on her" in "Revelations" when she was in the wrong by hiding Angel
Hmm, I'm out for the moment, but I know there are more.
6. What is your favorite episode featuring Buffy? Becoming and The Gift
7. What is your least favorite episode featuring Buffy? Euugh, Beer Bad
8. What would have happened if Buffy had had another watcher? I'm guessing she would have been more hardened and work-focused, the way she is in "The Wish".
9. What if she'd never met Willow and Xander? Again, see above.
10. What do you think Buffy would be doing if she wasn't the slayer? Well, she probably wouldn't have snapped out of Valley-Girl persona, so maybe something like personal shopper?
10. How would you describe Buffy? Self-centered, God-complex, brave, loyal, whingey
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AngelFaith
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
I rolled the bones. You for me.
My forgottendreamer[Mo0:12]
Posts: 641
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Post by AngelFaith on Mar 29, 2010 0:42:14 GMT -5
For starters, we're talking about a guy that left his bride at the frickin' altar!! I think that has to be possibly the worst thing one person can do to another without getting arrested for it (murder, rape, arson, etc., all being worse, obviously, but also against the law). In fact, an argument could be made that this might be the single worst act committed by any character on either show. Yes, others did things that, on the face of it, you could rank higher, but they either didn't have souls (Spike, and possibly Anya), were under the influence of something (Willow), or were doing it for a good reason, such as trying to save a life (Wesley). Xander has no excuses. He did what he did out of fear and personal weakness. Others on the show have done worse with souls (Dark Willow anyone?) Or what about the abuse that Buffy puts Spike through in Season 6? I have never felt the need to vilify Xander for leaving Anya at the altar. Yes, it was a horrible things to do and my heart just breaks for Anya, but let's look at this objectively for a moment. Xander obviously loves Anya. He proposes under dire circumstances and then starts to have doubts and fears. You can see over the whole of Season 6 that he is trying to figure out if he's really ready for this kind of commitment. But he still charges through, right up to the ceremony. Then he is shown a future where everything he fears comes true. That's enough to scare anyone away. And even when he finds out that it's not real, I think by this point, the fear has just been instilled too far. There is that heartbreaking shot where Xander looks at his parents and sees his father on the verge of hitting his mother and he realises that it would be a mistake to marry Anya. They just aren't ready. So yes, he really could have handled things better, or called off the engagement earlier. But he never meant to hurt Anya. It's obvious just how much he loves her. He did make a mistake but there was no malice in what he did. I get why Xander is hurt and angry here. Yes, he left Anya, but he never stopped loving her. To see her having sex with someone so soon after a breakup is probably akin to her not caring anymore. And to add insult to injury, it's Spike, who, to Xander, is nothing more than an evil, soulless thing. So going after Spike with an axe is understandable. I don't think Xander would have gone after a human with an axe. But Spike is (at this point) still just a demon. I will completely agree with you here. I always hated they way Xander treated Buffy in regards to Angel. He was such an ass and when he says the whole "Willow says .... kick his ass." I wanted to crawl into the TV and kick him in the head ... several times. That said, I really like how Xander grows over the series. He becomes such a good friend and a trusted ally for Buffy. There are aspects I don't like but overall I think Xander is a good guy.
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AngelFaith
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
I rolled the bones. You for me.
My forgottendreamer[Mo0:12]
Posts: 641
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Post by AngelFaith on Mar 28, 2010 21:52:03 GMT -5
I can't see Angel and Faith ever becoming romantically involved, even if Buffy had never been on the scene. He's never had an sort of romantic inclination towards her and, despite her going after him in Consequences, I don't think she ever really had an romantic interest in him either. He was just another thing in Buffy's life that Faith coveted. Buffy had the mother, the friends, the Watcher and the boyfriend, and I think Faith just wished that she had all of that too.
I think if there had been no Buffy/Angel, Faith and Angel would have ended up with the friendship that they have in Se4 of Angel.
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AngelFaith
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
I rolled the bones. You for me.
My forgottendreamer[Mo0:12]
Posts: 641
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Deaths.
Mar 28, 2010 3:11:02 GMT -5
Post by AngelFaith on Mar 28, 2010 3:11:02 GMT -5
Joyce I loved that they deliberately made her death a natural death, I think if she had died from a demon attack it would have lost emotional depth and meaning.
I also think that she had to die in order for Buffy to really feel the full weight of what was put on her shoulders during Season 6. If her mother had still been around she would have leant on her too much and Season 6 would have lost its impact.
Tara: I get that they needed to kill off Tara in order to have a catalyst for Willow's magic rampage but I hated that they did. Tara was one of my favourite characters and I found her death really distressing. The scene that always breaks my heart is when Buffy finds Tara's body and you just hear Dawn's little voice coming out of the dark "I didn't want to leave her alone."
Anya: Others have said this, Anya's death was put in mainly because they had to kill someone in the final battle and they weren't about to kill off one of the core four. We wouldn't really care about Robin if he died and to kill Faith would have been blasphemy!
I actually loved the way they did Anya's death. The quickness and brutality of it left me speechless and I liked Xander and Andrew's little moment concerning it. I like that they didn't make a huge deal out of it, it would have been too cliched if they had.
Spike: Meh, I didn't really care one way or another with Spike. I knew he was coming back for Angel, and I never really saw his death as some heroic sacrifice, because he actually didn't know what the amulet did when he wore it. For all he knew it was going to give him uber-powers.
Angel: I always find the "Close your eyes" scene heartbreaking, but beyond that I don't really find this one sad because a) Angel comes back and b) he's not technically dead.
Jenny: I was horrified by Jenny's death scene. The snapping of her neck is horrific! I also feel so so sorry for Giles when he comes home and finds her lying on his bed.
I wasn't exactly sad to see her go, however, she was never one of my favourite characters. I mostly just cry because of poor Giles.
Buffy: Never felt sad when Buffy dies (either time) because you know she's coming back. I did feel sorry for her in Prophesy Girl when she found out she was destined to die.
With The Gift I don't feel sad. I cry during that episode mainly because of the music and also the poor Scoobies left to grieve. Plus, I always wonder if her death was more of a suicide than a sacrifice?
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AngelFaith
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
I rolled the bones. You for me.
My forgottendreamer[Mo0:12]
Posts: 641
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Post by AngelFaith on Mar 26, 2010 6:34:58 GMT -5
Graduation Day. Love that episode.
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AngelFaith
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
I rolled the bones. You for me.
My forgottendreamer[Mo0:12]
Posts: 641
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Post by AngelFaith on Mar 26, 2010 6:25:32 GMT -5
Buffy/Angel (They're my favourite) Wes/Lilah (I loved this pairing! They were just so hot together!) Willow/Tara (It's just such a beautiful relationship and I love that they never over-sexualised it for ratings) Fred/Gunn (Always loved them way more than Fred/Wes) Angel/Darla (Seemed simple, but so complex)
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AngelFaith
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
I rolled the bones. You for me.
My forgottendreamer[Mo0:12]
Posts: 641
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Post by AngelFaith on Mar 26, 2010 5:26:28 GMT -5
I love this thread! Here are mine:
-"Close your eyes" -"Your shirt" -Buffy and Angel dancing at the Prom -Dawn lying next to the BuffyBot -Anya's speech in The Body -Buffy telling Giles that he can't destroy himself because she can't do it alone in Passion -Tara telling Willow she can be strong like an Amazon -Buffy's speech to the Potentials in Chosen
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