El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
|
Post by El Diablo Robotico on Mar 4, 2010 15:30:23 GMT -5
Fair enough - can't really argue with this, although on my own watching I certainly don't tend to forgive Xander any faster for his mistakes than anyone else. I think that it's natural for people to like Xander more than Gunn because he's a more central character than Gunn, and people tend to stick by their central characters. magic already pointed out a couple of the things I would've mentioned about the unfairness in the treatment Gunn receives compared to Xander. Different show, different writers, but still, a cynical person might also say, "Sure, dump all the crap on the brother, and let the white guy off with a slap on the wrist." I wouldn't say that, but someone else might. But I think the main reason the fans like Xander more than Gunn isn't that he's a more central character, but that he's a more relatable character. I'm going to strictly play the percentages of the US, Canadian, UK, and Australian populations (since that seems to be where BtVS/AtS is most popular) here in making this hypothesis, and assume that most of us grew up as middle-class white kids, like Buffy, Xander, and Willow. We relate better to Xander, because we've been thru a lot of the same things as him. Gunn, on the other hand, grew up in almost a whole other world than most of us. So we relate well to Xander, and therefore we like Xander, and we're more likely to just kind of brush it off when he does something really bad, which is exactly what you're saying about people sticking by their characters. I would say that the change even after the basement is pretty clear. He's clearly trying to be the old Spike in "Beneath Me" but he can't do it - when he impales the guy, the game is up. Spike is still at the height of crazy in "Beneath You". The sanity is an act, something that looks right on the surface, but is easily broken. It does break a bit at the Bronze when, after a quick fight, Buffy tells him that he hasn't changed. At that point he sort of becomes like a DJ taking requests, and since he thinks that's the song she wants to hear, he slips back into S2 Spike (it's actually a really cool, subtle performance by JM, who even goes back to his S2 accent). Then, once he impales worm-boy, the act is shattered completely, and he goes back to being Crazy Basement Guy for the next 3 eps. I think you're right, but the lack of any apparent remorse for all her horrible acts is still pretty troubling. There's definitely conflicting evidence there, and that's why I've always tried not to think too deeply into it. I love her for who she is, and since the writers never really gave us enough to work with when it comes to trying to judge her against Angel or Spike, I'd rather just set her off to the side and leave her out of the debate completely.
|
|
El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
|
Post by El Diablo Robotico on Mar 4, 2010 15:02:17 GMT -5
Omg, for the longest time i thought she was in a random store. I had no idea that that was at his appt!....i never questioned why she went to a random store but used the logic that every store in Main St. was bugged (because it was hinted earlier that they had every single key to those Main St. stores, so why not but the phones as well) They probably do have all the phones bugged. Remember: "They're the government--it's what they do." But it's definitely Riley's apartment, because a few scenes earlier he and Buffy are having sex, and tho the camera is mostly focused on the bed, you can see that the room behind them is the same place. I guess they were just lucky that nobody walked up to his door while they were doing it, cupped their hands against the glass and looked inside, and yelled, "Hey, y'all carry gardening supplies, or what?"
|
|
El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
|
Post by El Diablo Robotico on Mar 4, 2010 14:53:58 GMT -5
^^ Anya came into to her true self again a vengeance demon,which to me explored the whole bitter way of marriage which to me it was dark. It continue in season 7 at the beginning when Anya killed again. Going threw redemption again. Which explored the after math of the marriage the emotion where their in season 7. The vengeance demon thing was such a short and unsatisfying arc, tho. They didn't really do much of anything with it outside of "Selfless", after which she was back to being human, and she and Xander were left to stand around with pretty much nothing to do for the final 17 episodes. I agree with gumgnome that there were so many more opportunities for great storylines with them had they gotten married. Xander backed out because he was worried they'd turn into his parents. Well, what if he'd had those fears but gone thru with it anyway, and then as S7 began he started to notice those fears coming true? Does he leave her right away, or stick it out and try to turn things around? And like gg suggested, what if Anya tells him she's pregnant, and now he has to weigh not only his commitment to her, but his responsibility to the baby in trying to decide whether or not to leave? Instead, the wedding didn't happen, Anya became a vengeance demon again, and it led to one interesting episode for the two of them--"Selfless". On the other hand, had they gotten married, it would've opened up so many more great possibilities, both happy and painfully-angsty, that could've kept them going all thru S7, and many seasons after that. No two ways about it: the writers screwed this one up, big-time.
|
|
El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
|
Post by El Diablo Robotico on Mar 4, 2010 14:40:17 GMT -5
Restless, it just seems pointless to me. There's no plotline to it. There is a plotline to it, but it's sort of a subtle one. The spirit of the First Slayer is pissed at them for their joining-spell, and decides to kill them all in their dreams. It gets Willow, Xander, and Giles, and tho it's never made completely clear, I got the impression that if Buffy hadn't stood up to it and it'd killed her, too, they all would've died for realsies. But that part of the story is really secondary. It's mostly about getting into the characters' heads, examining their fears, and learning more about them. They probably do as much character-development in that one episode as it'd take four 'normal' episodes to accomplish.
|
|
El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
|
Post by El Diablo Robotico on Mar 4, 2010 3:28:33 GMT -5
That may be the coolest word ever. Then, umm, I totally made it up myself. Just now. Yeppers, that was all me. (Actually heard it somewhere awhile ago, and thought it was just as cool as you did. )
|
|
El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
|
Post by El Diablo Robotico on Mar 4, 2010 2:26:16 GMT -5
I'm just coming to realize what a percentage of my posts over recent weeks have been negative in tone. That can't be healthy, and it can't be very pleasant for the rest of the board. This is the best place on the net for season 8 discussion, but I don't want to become that guy who everyone dreads seeing posts from. Time to make some decisions, I guess. Hey, I'm positive I come across as negative (you see what I did there? ), and I haven't let that stop me. ;D I'm actually not that way at all, it just seems like I have more to say about the few things I dislike than the many things I like, but either way, it's a good and healthy thing to have at least a few people who will speak up as the voice of the opposition. Your posts always strike me as intelligent and insightful, even when they're in the minority, and even the (very few) times I disagree with them. So pull up a chair and stick around. Even if you give up on S8, stick around and hang out in the other subforums. That's what I did, and there's still plenty of good BtVS S1-7 and AtS S1-5 discussion to be had--not to mention DH, Dr. H, and Serenifly...
|
|
El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
|
Post by El Diablo Robotico on Mar 4, 2010 1:51:54 GMT -5
2 things from "Out Of My Mind": - Why does it look like Riley lives in a shop on Main Street? Seriously, go take a look at the front door of his apartment. Which scene is that? She goes to his place, he isn't there, she picks up the phone and, hearing that it's obviously tapped, tells 'whoever' that Riley is sick and needs help. A cappie: All he needs is a "Sorry, We're Closed!" sign hanging on the door! She looked pretty damn young. Young enough to really rob that line of all the weight it would've had coming from a more grizzled-looking doctor who'd you'd immediately believed had been in practice for a long time, and seen a zillion patients...
|
|
El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
|
Post by El Diablo Robotico on Mar 3, 2010 19:36:43 GMT -5
I think the only reason their produce Willow into a junkie for because their need to show the audience how willow is coming more powerful every day I think that's it exactly. But the problem that I think many of us have who don't like that storyline is with the way it was done. It feels very crude and sloppy, as if not a lot of thought was put into it, which is the exact opposite of how awesomely many of their previous real-life/supernatural metaphors were handled ("Beauty and the Beasts" being one notable exception ). So yeah, the idea behind it was a good and interesting one--the execution of it was pretty damn poor.
|
|
El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
|
Post by El Diablo Robotico on Mar 3, 2010 19:25:30 GMT -5
Group 3 thinks that Joss didn't care much for characterization and continuity and he had only chose Xander to do the spell so we could have the "Do I have to be your queen?" joke. Personally, I think group 3 nailed it So do I. Just as I feel that him leaving Anya at the altar was more of a case of the writers just wanting to make everyone as painful and miserable as possible during S6, rather than a true logical progression of his character and a decision that he would've really made under other circumstances. I honestly blame the writers way more than Xander for both these things, but still, within the confines of the fictional world the characters do have to shoulder the blame for their own bad decisions, unfortunately. While I do accept a lot of your points, El Diablo Robotico, I still think that there's a difference between finding wrong in Xander and hating him. You make an excellent case for the fact that there he does some very wrong things, but I agree with those who have already said that the reason they like him is because he makes very human mistakes - it's his faults that endear him to me. Tragic characters who seem doomed to repeat the failures of their parents are interesting characters for me, and it can be a serious psychological block to action that shouldn't be disregarded. Leaving Anya at the altar seems out of character for me, and makes me feel that Xander may have turned out to be a little disappointing developmentally, but this isn't something that can make me hate him either. And I'll say it yet again: I don't hate Xander, and I'm not suggesting that anyone else should, either. Personally, if I ranked my like/dislike of all the characters on a scale of positive-10 to negative-10, with 0 being neutral, Xander would land just to the left of 0--maybe a negative-1 or -2. I love him in his great moments, hate him in his bad ones, and am mostly ambivalent about him the rest of the time. My whole point with this thread is just that it's seemed to me over the last few years that a lot of fans--and the other characters around him--either ignore all Xander's bad moments, or come up with ways of rationalizing and excusing them away, more so than with other characters who've done similarly-reprehensible things. Now sosa lola says that she has seen him get called out for it by some of the fans over the years, and I don't doubt her in that, but she's apparently been visting other forums that I haven't. I've been almost strictly a SlayAliver over the last 3 years or so, and stuck to just 2 or 3 other sites in the years before that, and I've never seen it. Not here, and not at those previous stops. Yes, Xander's a very complex and interesting character, and yes, he's deservedly popular. He's a good man, but he's not a great man. He's not any better or more righteous than Willow, Angel, Faith, or Gunn, and certainly not more than Riley, Dawn, or Kennedy, and yet I think he's somehow acquired this reputation of being a spotlessly-wonderful guy, which I don't think he deserves. But there's really not an instantaneous change in Spike's character. Not unless you wanna count the basement stuff, and if you do, that's fair enough, but it doesn't make for a good comparison since we never got to see Anya's reaction to the First haunting her with all her past victims. Once Spike got out of there, he pretty much slipped right back into being the exact same guy he'd been before he got the soul, which is what causes all the problems for some people in differentiating that he's actually an entirely new character. Darla is another one who was very similar with a soul and without. It took her weeks to feel the weight of her soul, and for that guilt to finally hit home, tho eventually it did. If you wanna point out that it never seems to hit Anya, then I'll agree with that, but this doesn't exonerate Xander in any way--it just condemns Anya. And if any conclusions are going to be drawn from it, I'd say that, if anything, that points to her not having a soul even as human-Anya, because I don't see how else you can spend 1100 years killing and torturing men, and not feel any speck of guilt from it afterward. So if true, that just leads right back to Xander being King Hypocrite--being such a jerk to Buffy about her vamp boyfriends, yet himself being engaged to a soulless mass-murderer.
|
|
El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
|
Post by El Diablo Robotico on Mar 3, 2010 15:47:56 GMT -5
Buffy and Angel have only kissed folks, let's not get our wires crossed. Willow thinks they are doing it, but for now, they've only kissed. Speaking of the kiss, I'm glad it happened. It falls in line with Buffy's need and desire for an emotional connection all throughout the season, and Angel finally offering that, I'm not surprised she indulged. This isn't the first time Buffy has done something impulsive. Her middle name should be impulsive (Annepulsive?). "Hey, you just killed all those innocent girls that entrusted me with their lives--c'mere and gimme a kiss!" A kiss or sex--either way, I don't care. It's a ridiculously-unfeeling reaction by her.
|
|
El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
|
Post by El Diablo Robotico on Mar 3, 2010 15:38:13 GMT -5
Yes! I can't believe I didn't even think of Dawn (she's my second fav chaaracter for cripes sake!). Was it originally supposed to be Dawn instead of Andrew in The Girl In Question? Cos that just would have been awesome. That was the rumor at the time, but apparently Michelle was filming "Ice Princess" right then and they couldn't get her. But Tom Lenk was available, so they went to him as Plan B. I remember that it was actually listed as a credit on her IMDB page for awhile even after the episode aired! Just think how different S8 would've been if she'd been in that ep instead of Andrew...
|
|
El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
|
Post by El Diablo Robotico on Mar 3, 2010 15:31:15 GMT -5
You do realize that even if she ends up having sexual relations with Angel right now, Buffy isn't necessarily gone from the side of good. For one, it's not the first time she's bedded a killer. Both Angel and Spike were killers, despite the fact that one was ensouled, and the other neutered. And two, I agree that instead of passing judgment before you see the product, you should perhaps work in reverse. The problem with the reveal coming early is that instead of approaching the reveal as a "first time" deal, people are now approaching it with preconceived notions of morality, what makes sense, what doesn't make sense, etc. Your moral yardstick may not be the same as Joss'. You've said so yourself. But before damning a character, or both (since I remember a certain post of condemnation of Buffy), perhaps you should see the whole thing for what it is first. As I said, if you wanted to damn Buffy for sleeping with a mass murderer, you're a little late to the game, since she's done it before. Nuances aside, fact remains that both her vampire lovers did kill quite a few back in the day. Spike was a mass-murderer. Angel was not. Angel is not Angelus, and isn't responsible for all the horrible things Angelus did. And it was a little more understandable that she could ignore Spike's history, because he didn't kill any of her friends or colleagues. Twilight has killed dozens of the very girls Buffy empowered, took responsibility for, and trained. I'm with AndrewC--I don't care how "convincing" or "smooth" Angel was. Unless she turns out to be under some sort of spell, the fact that she could so quickly shrug off the murders of all those slayers is an almost unforgivable thing. That's not the Buffy I've loved and admired all these years. Wow, I'm now happier than ever that I stopped reading several issues back...
|
|
El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
|
Post by El Diablo Robotico on Mar 3, 2010 2:42:03 GMT -5
2 things from "Out Of My Mind": - Why does it look like Riley lives in a shop on Main Street? Seriously, go take a look at the front door of his apartment. - The female doctor at the hospital who first examines him says, "I've never, in all my years of medicine, released a patient in this condition." She looks like she's about 26. "All her years of medicine"? Really? They couldn't have either changed that line, or cast an older actor for the part?
|
|
El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
|
Post by El Diablo Robotico on Mar 3, 2010 2:19:29 GMT -5
Wow. Great episode tonight. (On island stuff, off was underwhelming, cuz well... Sayid = mediocre. On the island, I've always thought he was one of the best characters, but yeah, his off-island storylines have always been somewhat-lacking...
|
|
El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
|
Post by El Diablo Robotico on Mar 3, 2010 2:15:30 GMT -5
Big surprise, I'm gonna say Dawn. ;D
But not just as a quick, one-ep guest-spot, the way they originally planned for "The Girl in Question". If the show had gone on another 2, 3, or 4 years, I would've loved to have seen her become an AtS series regular. I think getting out from under Buffy's shadow is something that really could've helped the growth of her character a hell of a lot, and really given her the chance to become her own woman, not just Buffy's kid sister anymore.
I also think that there's better 'shippy possibilities (and more of them) for her in LA than hanging around with the old Sunnydale crew...
|
|
El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
|
Post by El Diablo Robotico on Mar 3, 2010 2:05:09 GMT -5
So to expand on my point, I feel that Xander doesn't get "a free pass," in fact I feel that Willow and Buffy get less punishment than Xander at times in the series. This is primarily in the search of love and support. Buffy has her one true love, though they are apart, in Angel. She knows she is loved and will probably always love him in return. Willow has had three great relationships, Oz did leave, but they seemed to end on a somewhat better note when Oz returned to SunnyD in S4.. and they have spoken in friendly terms in S8.. Tara and Willow had one of the most powerful relationships in the entire series (and arguably the entire JossVerse), and although Tara has died, Willow has kept her in her heart and moved on to have a decent relationship with Kennedy. What does Xander get? Bug Lady, Mummy, and Annoying Ashanti Demon. Well, as TGIQ already pointed out, you're leaving Cordy, and the happenings of S8 out of there, too. For a great big geek, Xander's had some pretty hot women over the years, who cared a lot about him. But you're kind of going off on a bit of a separate issue, sort of down the track of sosa lola when she mentions that Xander was the only one who didn't get a second chance with his exes. That's true, but it's also fairly irrelevant. It really has nothing to do with the main idea that Xander gets very little blame or anger from his friends--or the fans--for some of the really crappy things he's done over the years. You'd think a guy who's held up as the "white knight" of the show would be held to a bit of a higher standard. Completely different character, and completely different type of character. He doesn't need a free pass from S2-6. He's evil, and the fans love him for his evil-ness, the same way they love someone like Lilah. Nobody's excusing them from the horrible things they do, because that's such a core part of who they are, and those characters wouldn't want to be excused from those things. S7, and AtS S5, he gets a free pass because he's not the same character anymore, however much he might still seem the same. Tho some people will still argue it, there's enough evidence to pretty conclusively prove that a vampire with a soul is a completely separate character from that same vampire without a soul. I'll repeat Wesley's line to Holtz: "Angel is no more responsible for Angelus's crimes than I am", and add Buffy's quote to Wood: "You're looking for revenge on a man that doesn't exist anymore." Souled-Spike doesn't need a free pass for unsouled-Spike's crimes anymore than Willow needs one for all the awful things Glory does. Again: separate characters. And if you think Spike gets off easy for the attempted-rape--oh, man! You must've missed out on all the internet fracases between the pro-Spike and anti-Spike people back 6, 7, 8 years ago! It got insanely-nasty at times. Umm, why should he be held accountable for that? Buffy did the same thing. Both of them gave their lives to save the world, and their resurrections had nothing to do with either of them doing anything "wrong" that needed anyone's forgiveness for. Well, the price of reversing the spell that killed all the frat boys was the soul of a vengeance (or justice) demon. Halfrek paid quite dearly for it. Whether or not the "soul" mentioned is a corrupted version of the human soul, or "soul" is interchangeable with demon essence is not made clear. In "The Harvest", the Master also tells Luke, "My soul is your soul," even tho they both clearly don't have souls. Not in the way Angel and Spike do, anyway. I always took that to mean that there's some sort of demonic equivalent, just something that makes up their consciousness and essence, but isn't the same as a human soul. And that's something they never really got into with Anya--did Aud lose her human soul when she became demonic Anyanka, and get it back when she became human Anya, or did she have her human soul all along? I prefer to give her the benefit of the doubt and assume that she didn't have it all those years. - Treating a spell that raised a murderous demon like it was a mystical fortune cookie. He doesn't deserve any blame before the first death, because he didn't know that anything bad was going to happen, but keeping his mouth shut after that had the potential to be the worst thing he ever did, and he ended up getting off really lucky. You could even look at this as a precursor to what happened at the wedding: he screwed up, knew he'd screwed up, but couldn't work up the courage to speak up and admit his mistake and save things from getting much worse later on. I agree with most of your points, but I'm not sure about this one. Once people started dying, it would have been pretty far out of established character for Xander to keep quiet if he knew what the cause was. He's done some less-than-noble things, but nothing like that. So I'm inclined to believe that he doesn't actually make the connection until he actually sees the talisman at the Bronze. Of course, that doesn't really explain the "I just thought there'd be singing and dancing" line. Maybe he thought the amulet was supposed to show him some kind of dramatized version of his and Anya's future together? That's a stretch, I know. This is something that's always bothered me about that episode ... the ambiguity that strongly suggests one of the heroes doing something really reprehensible. Maybe this belongs in the "just bugs me" thread. Then there's the explanation that he didn't invoke it at all, but just said he did in order to protect Dawn ...but I don't think there's much evidence for that interpretation. To be honest, it's not something I ever thought much about before it was brought up here in this thread, because it was done as such a throwaway thing at the end of the episode. But still, when you take a minute and begin thinking about it a little, he really starts to look pretty bad here. He's just done a spell, probably very recently, that he thinks will lead to "dances and songs" of some kind. Then all of a sudden, everyone all over town starts dancing and singing. He doesn't think that maybe there's a chance the two things might be connected? Even if it's just a small chance, once that first guy died he should've brought it up as at least a possibility of what might be happening--especially when nobody else has the slightest clue, and Giles is almost ready to start investigating bunnies. For me, tho, it's actually one of those moments that almost takes me out of the story. It's such a weak explanation for everything that it just comes across as Joss having this amazing idea for a groundbreaking musical episode, and all the songs are going to have such important meaning for the individual characters, blah, blah, blah... And then he gets to the end of the script, and realizes that he doesn't really have a great explanation for why this demon would show up, and all these things would start happening. So he just came up with a silly little thing that he tossed on Xander's shoulders, without really stopping to think it through and realize how bad it makes Xander look when you start examining things a little closer...
|
|
El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
|
Post by El Diablo Robotico on Mar 2, 2010 16:57:47 GMT -5
Man, El D, you're just trying to piss off everyone, liking Kennedy and Riley, haha. ;D I like 'em both fine, but that last bit was a joke. If I had a daughter who liked girls, I think I'd want her to end up with someone like Willow--without the unpleasant addiction issues, of course. One of my favorite Riley moments was the way he helped Willow through her breakup with Oz. When they are together at the party, and he instructs the band to cut off the song that is bringing up some unpleasant memories for her, he was being sensitive to her pain and I thought that was really sweet of him. Another moment I like is in S5, when he takes Dawn to the amusement park and buys her ice cream, even though she's supposed to be in school, again showing what a nice guy he can be. Good call--I forgot both of those. And I feel kinda bad for Riley here, because I think that this poll is really stacked against him. Looking back at some of the "lesser" characters' Appreciation Month polls, Joyce's question was phrased, "Is she one of your favorites?", and Satsu's was just, "Do you like her?". But Riley's is, "Is he in your top 5?" Well, he's not real popular to begin with, and even people who like the guy probably aren't going to rank him ahead of Buffy, Willow, Xander, Spike, Faith, etc. That's not a criticism of SlayerLV, because I don't think there was any sort of intent by phrasing the question that way, but I don't know--maybe for the future polls, the "Top 5" part of it could be left out? Since it's the character's appreciation month, shouldn't we try to find ways to give 'em the most love possible?
|
|
El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
|
Post by El Diablo Robotico on Mar 2, 2010 16:17:21 GMT -5
I think of all the major character on both shows, only Tara, Andrew, and Lorne never got to dust any vampires. (Tho Tara did kill the leader of the demon biker-gang.)
Off the top of my head, all the (non-slayer, non-potential, non-vampire) ones that did: Willow, Xander, Giles, Dawn, Anya, Oz, Riley, Cordy, Wood, Jonathan, Wesley, Gunn, Doyle, Fred, Holtz, and Justine.
|
|
El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
|
Post by El Diablo Robotico on Mar 2, 2010 16:08:52 GMT -5
I don't see that in season 6. Like I said, I enjoyed Buffy's struggle and her evasion of responsibility; but she lives in a house with one child and two other adults. They would get student loans, and at least occassionally worked in the magic box. In the real world, Buffy's "desperate" money situation wouldn't exist. It wasn't nice of Giles to leave Willow and Tara is this poor financial state, but the writers had to force Buffy into a fast food place somehow. I don't know how many guys leave the love of their life at the altar in real life but if so, I wonder if it is as contrived as it was on Buffy. The quiet terror Xander went through beforehand was nicely done, the wedding episode was soap level bad. Willow's addiction was terribly handled, it wasn't even remotely like drugs until "Wrecked", when her story took a nose-dive. It went from a truely terrifying relationship with power to crack whore in 40 minutes. Buffy grew up. Xander and Willow merely ruined their own lives with stupid decisions. Couldn't have said it better--same goes for your earlier comment about the writers just getting way too carried away jamming their fingers down on the "PAIN" button that year. Things get to the point with Xander and Willow that I almost want to just give both of them a complete pass, and pretend that the stuff they did in S6 never happened. It just gets so ridiculously over-the-top that it almost takes me out of the story and makes me say, "No, Xander and Willow wouldn't do these things on their own without Marti and all the other little puppetmasters making them." The wedding thing is really the worst offense (by the writers) of all, because it clearly wasn't planned as a set-up for anything. It didn't launch Xander or Anya into any great new character arcs. It was done only because it fit with the overall theme of the season: "Pain and misery--the more, the better!! " There's nothing that happened in the remainder of S6, or in S7 that would've been majorly upset by Xander and Anya being married, and it would've made all the other painful happenings of S6 so much easier to take if there'd been even one nice, happy event to cling onto...
|
|
El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
|
Post by El Diablo Robotico on Mar 2, 2010 15:55:01 GMT -5
Congratulations to all the winners. It's especially nice to see Xi get some love for everything he does. Richly-deserved, my friend! The only thing that makes me sad is that you changed your avatar. I loved the one with Joss pulling his hair out, because it seemed such a wonderful visual commentary on what it must be like to be a mod...
|
|