Season 8 - Twilight Part 3: Issue 34

[echo1]

Mar 30, 2010 15:52:07 GMT -5 Tommi said:

Great page preview, Willow looks great, maybe even the best she's ever been portrayed by Jeanty.
I actually laughed at Dawn and "Ben is Glory?", that was great!
I'm actually enjoying Season 8 again!

Awe man, I totally thought the same thing when I read the whole issue. Great Willow likeness, LOVES Willow. Plus ya the Ben is Glory comment was golden, love when they joke about things in the Buffyverse.

[hitnrun017]

Apr 9, 2010 10:48:35 GMT -5 Emmie said:

I think it's that the glow amps up their emotions, taking the strong feelings they already have for each other and increasing them exponentially with the magic "urging" of the Universe. So where Buffy would continue to say "Screw you for lying to me, you betrayed me and hurt me. No, I'm not in the mood to sleep with you immediately upon discovering your deception" the glow amps up the emotion until it's all hearts and love and sex.

It's the definition of emotion overpowering reason. Using the "Power of Love" to overthrow reason. This is why I find it so disturbing from a woman's standpoint. Because that's the misogynist insult, that a woman only thinks with her emotions, that she'll always fall prey to them.

Buffy emotionally retreats when she feels betrayed. There's simply no way it's in-character for her to dive into sex after the revelation that Angel has been lying to her all season. It doesn't even matter if she believes he's not a "bad guy". He still lied and betrayed her and that's where it hurts, if not for the 206 girls whose deaths are weighing on her.

Remember when Buffy saw Angel acting like Angelus in Enemies? She was aware of the deception then but it still emotionally rocked her. He wasn't even actively betraying her then and she needed to take some time and put emotional distance between them. (Buffy emotionally retreats when she feels betrayed. And I don't think she's sleeping with Angel as a form of self-punishment like she was with Spike.)

What Angel did as Twilight is exponentially prefixy worse. So for Buffy to immediately jump from rage to sex is very clearly a violation of what she'd normally do. And as has been suggested elsewhere, it's not the same as Spike in Season 6. That was a clear link between sex and violence on a personal level. But Buffy didn't feel personally betrayed by Spike, Spike didn't gather up the demons of Sunnydale to attack her friends. Or imagine it hypothetically happening in Season 7 where Spike leads to the deaths of Potentials under Buffy's care. A Buffy of sound mind wouldn't immediately jump on Spike, no matter her personal feelings.

The glow is essentially the trigger for Spike in Season 7, only it appears to be somewhat less about complete control. It's an urging of the heart, amping it up to an undeniable degree.

So yeah, I find the sex squicky for this reason. And I think it does lend itself to a rape metaphor. But AndrewC is right that the writers are walking a tightrope between betrayer and rape victim.

I can definitely see where you're coming from, but if I didn't read the posts here or Whedonesque or anywhere else, misogyny or rape wouldn't have even crossed my mind. Seems like the outcome will be a lose/lose for people who are bothered by it all. I just want to sit back, enjoy the story and see what happenes next for the characters. It's hard to believe that however the season ends (or nine), Buffy's character will be destroyed. This is Joss, he just won't do that. I'm more worried about Angel at this point.

I don't want it to seem like I don't care about the characters either, because I do on a personal level. Hell, I like some of them more than my own my friends. I just want to see how it all plays out before laying waste to what has happened to them. Besides, this isn't the first time we've seen characters have sex under some kind of influence. And you've seen Dollhouse, right? Not the same circumstances, but still.

[AndrewCrossett]

Whether this story works for me or not ultimately depends on how Buffy responds when she's fully back in control of herself, and realizes what she's been used for.

I think the way Joss is steering the story is for the Big Bad to be not Twilight, and not "The Universe," but Destiny. This is leading up to Buffy's decision to break Destiny's hold and replace it with Free Will. (For herself at least, and maybe for the whole world.)

[wenxina]

It actually sounded like she was beginning to come back to her senses a little in the end. The Buffy I know was full of questions, and it seemed that she was beginning to ask some of the more pertinent ones once in Twilight.
She'll probably figure it out, go back to save the day, but will be too late, and go back in time, screw with destiny and the Universe's plan, but ultimately, I don't think it'll come at a cost that's anything to scoff at.

[Emmie]

Xi, your icon is forever freaking me out now. Seriously. Ha! Are you going for intimidating?


[ETA] E, think about it this way. For the rapist, rape isn't about sex. It's about power. A figure asserts their dominance by violating another person's sanctity of self, by forcing themselves upon another.

So if The Universe is manipulating Buffy and Angel's bodies/emotions and getting them to have sex, it's almost like a one-two punch of rape metaphor. Both in affecting how they feel, but also making it explicit in bringing the encounter to a sexual level.

Faith switching bodies with Buffy also works as rape metaphor. Getting inside Buffy's body and forcing it do things. What if, instead of sleeping with Riley, Faith-in-Buffy's-body had slept with a random stranger? And this guy approached Buffy later on after she'd gotten her body back. For the woman, hearing that you've had sex with someone and have no memory of it, offered no consent--that's like being slipped GHB and taken advantage of. And the guy becomes an unwilling cohort in the situation, thinking he's received consent.

Anyways, it's just really messed up. And I can't read this issue without cringing for what's happening to Buffy (and possibly Angel, but I can't tell yet how culpable he is).

[wenxina]

I was going for prophetic in my avatar.
But only because it's such an amazing image. Plus, ya know... decomposing corpse... very Tales of the Crypt-ish.

[VampSlayer]

Apr 9, 2010 8:31:35 GMT -5 wenxina said:

Cue my rather absurd little theory (concocted while cooking eggs, mind you) from last month that the offspring will be Harth and Melaka...

This seems all too possible. x.x

If Buffy gets pregnant with anything, I'm totally dropping S8. It's getting way too out of hand, for me.

[wenxina]

New CBR Behind Season 8 HERE.
Plenty of spoilers, so yeah... you know the drill.

[richie]

i see the glow like the time they transitioned into new beings(gods)
and i think the sex its all about the race...
they being primeval... its like they the oly one from their (new) breed, so they acasalate(dont know if the word is right in english so, they f***) thats way i think she'll be pregnant....

and about the rest of the season...
i think buffy AND angel will realize that they being screwed by something, and they gonna save the day, at least buffy will do...
cause i think angel is being "out of himself" for a great long time...
thats why hes twilight... maybe the token of you love becomes twilight and later you do....
the think is.... i cant see now how it will gonna be the relationship between buff and angel....
how can she/him love the other knowing that they destroyeid the world(cause ai think the doing some irreperable damages)

[AndrewCrossett]

Apr 9, 2010 17:06:21 GMT -5 wenxina said:

New CBR Behind Season 8 HERE.
Plenty of spoilers, so yeah... you know the drill.

It's interesting that he was going for "sexy and beautiful" with the sex scenes here. I'm afraid that's not the reaction I had at all, in context.

Because if that was supposed to be "sexy and beautiful," then this story is in a lot of trouble.

SPOILER: Click to show

It's also interesting that the next issue gets into philosophy, though, and we know from Georges' cover that Buffy gets back to the Scoobies at some point. I hope this is where the Destiny vs. Free Will battle is defined. End of Act II, so that's right where it would go.

[buffy4ever2k10]

Hi everyone i´m new here.

After reading the issue i was very upset. I´m kinda still am but i´ll handle it.

I don´t like the direction the characters and their stories headed but i´m just curious about how it ends so i can´t stop reading. Stupid addiction to the buffyverse.

I really hope Buffy snaps out of it asap. I want to see Buffy fighting and beating the crap out of demons not screwing around with an insane Angel. Yes i think Angel lost his mind and got consumed by Twilight or whatever the force finally calls himself.

I´m a Spuffer but i tolerate Bangel too and this is just wrong on so many levels. The only thing (for now) that keeps me reading this season is the image of Spike fighting shoulder to shoulder with Buffy again. I just love it when they do that.

Giles won the award for the worst watcher ever. How could he hide something like that from all the scoobies and especially Buffy? Damn he is pissing me off so much.

I hope Faith,the slayers and the scoobies can hold off the demons and Giles(stupid watcher) has a backup plan.

The next issue 35 cover makes me so sad and i got this feeling in my guts something terrible happens to at least one of the scoobies.

I wonder if Joss planned season 8 exactly like this for his TV show. To bad we will never know.

Spike we need you soon can´t come soon enough. I really hope Spike is still Spike and not under another mystically influence at all. His character is good as it is and i want him back in Buffys life. Dont screw with him too Joss.

Famous future quote of Buffy:Screw destiny!

[caurielle]

I am not a fan of Jeanty's art--are we sure that it is Buffy, not Faith, with Spike in the prophetic "SOON" panel? Maybe Faith getting her powers back (and the only one we hear mention it) is significant in some way.
As far as shipping, someone (I'm sorry, I've read so many posts) said s/he doesn't think Buffy will end up with anyone. That may be true (Buffy stands alone)--but maybe Season 8 is not about who she ends up with. Maybe there is some other meaning. Maybe this all just means that Slayer-grrls need love, too. Maybe this is just some kid's wacky Broadway nightmare. I can see it now...Issue 40...Buffy wakes up...Season 8 was all just a dream. On to Season 9.


Shoot me now lol

[wenxina]

Apr 9, 2010 21:38:43 GMT -5 caurielle said:

I am not a fan of Jeanty's art--are we sure that it is Buffy, not Faith, with Spike in the prophetic "SOON" panel?

Faith isn't blonde.

[richie]

yeah its buffy with spike...
an di think, that for that panel, she'll snappe out of it!
with the help of spike?
maybe, if one true love put her to be a high being maybe another true love will save her....
would be so eppic and so joss....
(and im a bangel)...
so let wait for a hole month and see where we will and till august
(since 36 its a one shot right?)

[wenxina]

No, #36 is the first issue of Joss' 5-issue final arc.
There will be a Riley one-shot out in August. #36 will not come out until September.

[The Night Lord]

A Riley one-shot? Hmm, maybe now we'll know what happened to him. I'm still not sure if he's dead or alive

[wenxina]

Apr 10, 2010 0:43:27 GMT -5 The Night Lord said:

A Riley one-shot? Hmm, maybe now we'll know what happened to him. I'm still not sure if he's dead or alive

That, and a little more, apparently.

[CowboyGuy]

Couple things. I seriously think that Spike will show up, lead Buffy to come to her senses somehow and they take on some Old Ones. Maybe that shadow is some huge demon/Angel/Twilight hybrid thingy?

Anyway, *ahem - puts on Andrew voice* "How -will- Spike get to Buffy in time?"

See the role reversal there? Hehe.

Second thing that worries me, if Buffy and Angel are birthing a new reality, and if they are the Adam and Eve so to speak...how can they come back from that? If Buffy truly has evolved (which the issue clearly proves she has), it would be even more ridiculous for her to devolve back into a "normal" Slayer. I say if they make that jump, they should stick with it.

[sosa lola]

Review #34

Okay, so this issue discussed the real mythology behind the Slayer/Vampire relationship, the greatest apocalypse of all, which… I'm not gonna focus on. I've never been interested in the big picture, the reason I watched the show and read the comic is the characters. I care about them, their relationships with each other, their suffering and happiness, and their progression and regression.

So, I'll leave the complicated talk to its people, and focus on the little details, which I've loved.

Giles' concern over Faith's wellbeing was so touching and sad at the same time. The sad part is that now he seems closer to her than Buffy, and I've always loved the Buffy/Giles relationship which is never the same since Lies My Parents Told Me.

The Warren/Andrew nerd fight. I love how it shows that Andrew grew out of his Warren worship, and right now, he dislikes him a great deal.

I've noticed how Xander and Dawn are the voice of the fans –Xander has always been the guy who objects, who gives another opinion, be it right or wrong, and he's still doing the same thing.

I'm surprised to hear fans claiming that S8 doesn't have a wise-cracking, truth-telling, sarcastic character. Dawn fills that role perfectly for some time now.

I could never say it enough. Xander wanting to help Buffy is one of the most endearing aspects of his character, he's always thinking about helping her when danger occurs. I also love how he says screw the magicks and then orders Willow to do a spell. Hee.

I laughed out loud at Willow's "Xander, I don't think you want to see this." Willow is clearly talking from memory; actually this issue does bring me back to the earlier seasons, Willow thinking that Xander won't like the sight of Buffy and Angel together, and on the other hand, Willow claiming that Angel (and Spike) is Buffy's truest loves. Wasn't Willow Buffy's little cheerleader in high school? She always romanticized the Buffy/Angel relationship.

I can't make my mind over Buffy and Angel's state of mind. Are they in full control of their actions or are they possessed by a greater force? What I do see though is them enjoying the hell out of each other. The sex, their feelings, it all looks real to me.

Buffy crushing the wall with her hand reminds me of when she crushed the pewter pitcher in Graduation Part Two. Nice touch.

I LOVE Faith's rage with Giles, of all the characters, she's the one who'd feel most betrayed by him; he'd been by her side the whole season, travelling to Germany and going around the world, and he said NOTHING. Poor Faith, will she ever find someone that will never hurt her?

The panel with all the characters staring at Giles, demanding an explanation is SO made of win! Willow's betrayed and sad expression and the way she hugs herself helplessly. Xander and Faith's angry expressions. Dawn's silent and sad features. Say what you want about Jeanty, but this guy is the only one who makes me connect with these characters.


While I do like a fair take on the Watchers' Council, I didn't take issue over the 1680s watchers taking their lives out of fear. This apocalypse appears to be the biggest the Scoobies ever faced yet. Besides, the 1680s watchers aren't the same as the 1999s watchers –different times, different people. Who's to say that all Slayers were brave and strong? I bet some were so cowardly and weak.

Xander does have a point when he said that nothing is going to be weird when they've faced plenty of supernatural, out-there creatures in the past. Nothing has changed.

A smile tugged on my lips when Giles described what's happening as a fairy tale. I remembered Emmie's awesome essay.

Satsu's reaction made me sympathize with her. I don't think it's much to do with Buffy choosing someone else as the person himself. Buffy is having sex with the guy who'd been torturing them, killing Slayers and spreading hate, not to mention the guy who sent the kitty monsters who almost caused Satsu her life.

Satsu's reaction and Andrew's "Please don't tell me that was them. It's ruining everything for me," do echo the aggravated Spuffy and Bander shippers as well as the other fans who are afraid they're losing Buffy, the character, and Angel, the character, to this new plot twist.

Giles' inability to spill it all out did frustrate me, I was with Xander when he shook him to talk. But I can understand Giles' hesitation.

Haha, loved Xander and Willow's expressions as Warren's declaration that he doesn't like them; reminds me of Spike.

Speaking of Spike, I really love how Jeanty drew him, and hey, he and Buffy will be fighting side by side again against something really huge –could it be the real Twilight?

"Oh, goddess" it used to bug me in the past when fans write Willow saying it in fanfic; because on the show I don't remember her ever saying goddess, guess it's canon now.

The Slayer/Vampire connection is interesting, but I don't like the idea of Buffy's attraction to Angel and Spike to be a result of destiny or outer force. Actually, it makes her feelings for both Riley and Xander more real, she loved them despite that connection.

So, Giles knew that Buffy was meant to be the god all along? And he was trying to find a way to kill her? Again, so sad, yet still in character.

So, Twilight is paradise. Emmie's drawing of Buffy and Angel as gods springs to mind. You are a psychic, hon.

[AndrewCrossett]

Apr 10, 2010 8:40:02 GMT -5 sosa lola said:

Satsu's reaction made me sympathize with her. I don't think it's much to do with Buffy choosing someone else as the person himself. Buffy is having sex with the guy who'd been torturing them, killing Slayers and spreading hate, not to mention the guy who sent the kitty monsters who almost caused Satsu her life.

I agree. I've seen some people criticizing Satsu for running out on the others at such a crucial time (which I don't think is actually what she's doing), but I have to say her reaction to these events is the only one that really makes sense to me, out of all the Scoobies.

I think a lot of emotional character interaction is being glossed over here in the interests of moving the story ahead during such an explication-heavy part of it... but I just don't buy the ease with which the good guys are tolerating the presence of the bad guys. Amy and Warren fired a missile that killed at least 7 of Satsu's personal friends, and now she's expected to calmly work alongside them as if they're colleagues?

Andrew had to watch several girls under his command slaughtered in the Rome catacombs by Amy and Warren's summoned demons.

Willow is now exchanging explication with the man who shot the love of her life in the heart, and not long ago kidnapped and tortured her and tried to destroy her mind.

These are very serious, very emotional issues, and I'm afraid it just doesn't ring true to me to have it expressed only through jokey arguments about Captain America's shield, or campy throwaway lines like "Oh, and I hate you all, by the way."

IMO, Satsu (and Faith, kind of) is the only one right now who's behaving like a feeling human being and not a plot device.

There was an awful lot of emotional setup this season, and apart from the Buffy/Angel issue it's kind of being forgotten about. I hope that when the heat of crisis subsides, we'll get to see more of how these characters deal with their own personal pain... and the people that caused it.

The bit about the 1680's Watchers Council is pretty intriguing. They must have had a pretty impressive Slayer if they were convinced that she'd triggered Twilight. I'd kind of like to see her story.

BTW, can we assume that we now have our answer for why the world's people were so strangely willing to accept vampires among them? "The Universe" conditioned everyone into accepting this in order to help bring about their own destruction?