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Post by wenxina on Apr 16, 2010 8:52:13 GMT -5
Thanks, Dorotea. I was trying to address the sex, but not get caught up in it. That, and I always thought that the sex was pretty much a plot element here, instead of the whole point of the issue. The mythology bit is what I was looking forward to the most, and I wasn't disappointed, seeing how much was packed in there. I'm just hoping that as promised, #35 will provide most of the answers for the yet unanswered questions from this arc. As for the totem... it's possible that the flash to the Scythe was a mislead, but to merely introduce a new weapon would be a repeat offense... we did get the Scythe sprung on us in the last 3 eps (?) of S7. Given the secret nature of the Scythe (we know who created it, why it was created, and for whom it was created, but that's pretty much it...), it wouldn't entirely surprise me if Giles overlooked it. He is the guy who's been known to use powerful arcane artifacts as paperweights.  To me, it sounded like the "totem" and the "item" Giles was searching for were one and the same. Heh... I wonder if they could depower Buffy with the Scythe now... |
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Apr 16, 2010 10:35:44 GMT -5
The totem and the Scythe might both be misleads. Although we know the Scythe will be important, I don't think it's the totem, and I suspect the totem will never be found.
You know how I'd like to see the next issue end? The world goes right ahead and ends. It's too late to stop it. The world ends, and everybody except Buffy and Angel die. We could even get a nice "Blake's 7" style montage showing each of the Scoobies going down one by one, right before our eyes.
Then in the next arc, Buffy has to travel back in time to try and prevent it from happening. (Remember when Superman reversed time to save Lois Lane from the earthquake?) The problem is, she's defying the Universe and using its own granted powers to do it. The Universe can't kill her, and it can't just de-power her and leave her stranded in time, because that would ruin its plans for creating its new reality. So it has to simply keep throwing obstacles in Buffy's way to try and stop her.
There's precedence for this "rewind and reboot" strategy in the Buffyverse, of course. It was done in "I Will Remember You," and on a much larger scale in "After the Fall." The problem is, it might involve retconning quite a bit of Buffyverse history right out of existence.
I still have major qualms about this storyline, and whether Buffy and/or Angel can possibly come out of it as characters I can still care about and get behind. This is the worst thing Buffy has ever done, and making it right is going to be a hell of a task.
I am relieved that I finally have a plausible explanation for the "popular vampires" story element, though.
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Dorotea
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Post by Dorotea on Apr 16, 2010 10:55:04 GMT -5
wenxina ,
I can totally see where you coming from with the scythe, but the whole plot of the Wolves at the Gate already involved Scythe - and it was treated in equal terms with Drac's sword, as an item populated with the demons spirit. And it had to be used in conjunction with the uber-lens that Toru and Co built to focus the effect of the spell. It would be nice if this particular loose element of the overall plot - Saga's involvement in stealing of the Scythe and how it can be used to depower human-demon hybrids - will be tied in. I think Buffy's 'betrayal' panel with the weird red broken egg thingy is relevant as well. The 'egg' might be the 'totem' that is used to focus energy of the Scythe.
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Post by wenxina on Apr 16, 2010 11:06:11 GMT -5
@ac: Given their possible time-bendy powers, your possible scenario is actually very plausible. Dorotea: I guess we'll see soon enough if the whole "totem" thing comes up. I would like to see Aluwyn's role in S8 made a little less murky, and I've a feeling that Joss arc will wrap that stray thread up. |
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richie
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Post by richie on Apr 16, 2010 12:44:05 GMT -5
i can totally see this time travel resolution plot happening... it would fit the 37 cover very well..... and i thing it would be a very good plot to explore, cause buffy would suffer a lot... and that would be a good character development........ and would leave the characters scar free..... but not us.... would it be dramatic, would it be game changer, would be jossy...... the thing is... i think issue 35 will leave us talking till august.... just like brad said in the Q&A... we will be really pissed, and really anxious to learn what the frak joss will do it in his arcs, and what awnsers will be awnsered... and just to comment about the hole buffysutra thing... i think it starts epic, and it lost it... became LOL² i think if the panel was a little blurry to show the speed of them fraking, would be less LOL³. otherwise(for me) i just imagined looking up to the sky and buffy doing it from behind(sorry for the language...) but, thats just IMO Just wanna say WOW XI very good review.... and they need a wepon to kill a god? why don't they use the hammer from the season 5? would it be a great thing xander remenbering it, and a cool way to show us anya(i miss her) |
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cutiepatootie
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Post by cutiepatootie on Apr 16, 2010 19:17:45 GMT -5
@ Andrew, what was the explanation for popular vampires again?
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Apr 16, 2010 20:07:02 GMT -5
@ Andrew, what was the explanation for popular vampires again? They didn't say it specifically, but we can assume that the Universe, nature, the force of evolution, or whatever is causing Twilight caused people to become apathetic and accepting of an obviously dangerous and frightening situation, because it would be easier to eliminate them quickly if they were unprepared. Also, it needed the whole world to turn against Buffy in order to force her to unlock her powers due to adversity (and possibly the deaths of many Slayers). The Universe prepped people to accept vampires (their own deaths) and reject the Slayers (their protectors), and Angel took care of carrying out that plan. This is asking a lot of evolution, of course... but Giles did say this was a special "birth of a new reality" event and not the usual slow-paced natural evolution. It's kind of contrived and vague, really, but it's better than what we've had to work with. Hopefully more specifics will be forthcoming. (In the next issue, we may very well see that all those "friendly" vampires have suddenly turned on the humans and are slaughtering them at will all around the world.) |
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D'Hoffryn
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Post by D'Hoffryn on Apr 17, 2010 5:52:02 GMT -5
In the next issue I agree with you Andrew, I think the worlds military will start crawling to the slayers for help and I wonder if the scoobies go to see Simone Doffler after all her Island would be the safest.
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cutiepatootie
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Post by cutiepatootie on Apr 17, 2010 9:20:33 GMT -5
(In the next issue, we may very well see that all those "friendly" vampires have suddenly turned on the humans and are slaughtering them at will all around the world.) Thanks for clearing that up. I agree, the general public deserve to be turned on now they've let so many wolves into the fold. I'd like to see another voice over style montage similar to the previous issue, with scenes from all over the world with vampires turning on their food. And as it's always been, it'll fall to the Slayers to clean up the mess. But I have one more question; is the new reality that Buffy and Angel are in now seperate to the one that the rest of the scoobs are in? Or has that one been destroyed? |
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Apr 17, 2010 9:57:49 GMT -5
But I have one more question; is the new reality that Buffy and Angel are in now seperate to the one that the rest of the scoobs are in? Or has that one been destroyed? The new Twilight Zone seems to be an alternate version of our own world. That stone head lying on the ground is similar to one that was there in Tibet, where B&A started their epic boff. It looks sort of like a psychedelic Dr. Seuss version of Tibet. (Georges said he was inspired by those Roger Dean album covers from the 70's.) As for the Slayers cleaning up the mess, I have a feeling the Slayer army is no more. I think the Slayer line has gone back to one person, and the others won't be getting their powers back. Faith's powers came back right after Buffy had her first climax with Angel. That may be the point at which Buffy officially became whatever it is she was becoming (she came and became at the same time. ) At that point she stopped being human, and therefore stopped being a Slayer, and Faith was re-called as the next Slayer in line. Just a theory. |
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Dorotea
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Post by Dorotea on Apr 17, 2010 10:46:21 GMT -5
A little bit off topic - but since it is still one of the amusing moments of #34, I wanted to share this bit. 'lose the coat' - apparently was about tv trope 'The coats are off' tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheCoatsAreOffto quote from the source 'when a Badass Longcoat wants to really get dangerous, he takes his coat off ', which I think was especially funny since in that moment Angel was not wearing much at all already... still what he was basically saying is 'do you want me to go completely bad-ass' ? |
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Post by henzINNIT on Apr 17, 2010 12:01:27 GMT -5
I waited spoiler-free while I was back home for Easter. Just picked the issue up today...
Eh. Pretty much bollocks. The sex was constant and creepy, and Giles suddenly knows just enough to explain away years of unrelated season which is just lame and convenient. He didn't seem at all worried about balance when he told Buffy spawning and army of slayers was "bloody brilliant", and I don't like to think that Giles has been secretly considering Buffy's future without speaking to her. He's protective sure. He may have kept Buffy's fate from her back in season 1, but this is different. There's a chance that she could have prevented this or at least prepared, it makes no sense that Giles would keep it a secret.
I'm not impressed that the Angel I know and loved donned a silly costume and orchestrated evil deeds for ... a reason... or some sort, and in no way just for a dramatic reveal. I don't think the Twilight we saw for so long meshes with the explanation Angel provided, and have no faith in it being rectified either. It smacks of last minute exposition, which has become a bit of a lazy Whedon trait.
In short, underwhelmed.
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Post by wenxina on Apr 17, 2010 12:10:28 GMT -5
Giles probably never considered that the Watchers' fairy tale had any element of truth to it. The way it sounds, it's pretty much a boogieman story told within the Council. It was more than likely a troubling bit of research after the fact, that revealed that Buffy potentially tipped the scales, and that the universe would answer again. I mean, if you do the math, 2000 Slayers, of which only about 500 were active really doesn't stack up against all the vampires, demons, and Hellmouths of the world. Giles, finding out that the math doesn't quite work the way of human logic probably came to the disturbing conclusion that something was up.
And even now, Giles himself says that the problem is, nobody knows anything. He's working on conjecture for the most part, trying to make sense of all the boogieman references that he's no doubt had to wade through to even come close to constructing this kernel of truth.
Fact remains, most of the Watchers' Council references were destroyed in the explosion that Caleb engineered. What he's working on is probably from more questionable sources... The name "Twilight" probably sparked a memory and led him down the right path of research. That, and the symbol, probably.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Apr 17, 2010 12:41:08 GMT -5
The Twilight symbol now looks to me like a protective dome, offering cover from a portal opening in the sky.
That's probably wrong, but it's all I've got.
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Post by dragonweaver on Apr 19, 2010 16:36:29 GMT -5
I didn't get around to reading this issue until just a couple days ago. I decided to wait to respond so I could absorb what happened in the issue and then re-read it.
I have to say it's not quite what I expected. First off the sex, to me, felt slightly over the top although it did have it's hot moments. Personally I would of been happier if they had just stuck with the close ups and the really long distance shots rather than using so many wide shots of them in various positions.
The whole universe collapsing and starting over with Angel & Buffy as some kind of new age Adam & Eve was a twist I really didn't see coming. I can't help but wonder where this is all going and what it all means for the rest of the world. Obviously the damage has to be reversed or fixed, whether it's by turning back time like AC suggested or by someone finding a way to strip her & Angel of their new powers.
All in all I think I'm still absorbing all of it. At this point I'm just hoping for some kind of pay off in the end. I want to read the last issue/s of season 8 and have a nice eureka moment where it all makes sense. Right now I'm still stuck somewhere between confused & curious.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Apr 21, 2010 9:23:47 GMT -5
BTW, here's that interview from a few months ago in which Joss "jokingly" said that Buffy and Angel would be having sex for three full issues of season 8. I'd forgotten he also "jokingly" said that Spike would be around for two of the three issues. Which means, mathematically, that he has to be showing up in #36. |
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kaan
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Post by kaan on Apr 21, 2010 10:12:02 GMT -5
Joss seems to do this a lot. If you went back and read every S8 interview he's done we'd probably see more instances like this, were he actually answers a question like a joke and everyone just accepts it as one.
I remember he did a Q&A on Whedonesque before Dollhouse began and someone ask him about Felicia Day and this is what he typed:
What role will Felicia Day play on Dollhouse?
A tough yet tender freedom-fighter in a post-apocalyptic future, DUH.
Okay, that one doesn't count.
Which is exactly what she was, but I don't think anyone really paid any attention to his answer at the time.
OT: Anyone think Buffy's gonna be visited by the Ghost's of Slayers Past given what Jeanty said in his last interview:
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Dorotea
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Post by Dorotea on Apr 21, 2010 11:27:04 GMT -5
I think it was 'three days' not three issues. And because of the Always Darkest and Issue #3 with threesome dream the 'days' with Spike in them have already happened.
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Post by lucyflawless on Apr 21, 2010 14:23:37 GMT -5
BTW, here's that interview from a few months ago in which Joss "jokingly" said that Buffy and Angel would be having sex for three full issues of season 8. I'd forgotten he also "jokingly" said that Spike would be around for two of the three issues. Which means, mathematically, that he has to be showing up in #36. If we were to take Joss' statement literally it would mean Spike showing up in #35, but I doubt we will see any more Buffy/Angel sex this season. Still pretty funny tho. |
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zamolxis
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Post by zamolxis on Apr 21, 2010 14:41:17 GMT -5
BTW, here's that interview from a few months ago in which Joss "jokingly" said that Buffy and Angel would be having sex for three full issues of season 8. I'd forgotten he also "jokingly" said that Spike would be around for two of the three issues. Which means, mathematically, that he has to be showing up in #36. If we were to take Joss' statement literally it would mean Spike showing up in #35, but I doubt we will see any more Buffy/Angel sex this season. Still pretty funny tho. As god-like creatures they are now sex is definitely beneath them. They'll go into metaphysical discussion for sure. |
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