Season 8 - The Long Way Home: Part 3

[Girl Power]

colonelforbin said:

I definately think there are some issues inside Andrews head! I just don't necessarily think he is gay. Why would they tip toe around it so much? Willow and Tara were strong powerful women and great lesbian role models, don't you think they "gay jokes" with Andrew would taint that???

He's weird, plain and simple. He's a Star Wars fanboy and not exactly smooth with the ladies. The whole thing is very tounge-in-cheek. I think if he were gay, they would have come out and made it obvious. Who knows? The consensus is definately gay, but I think that's way too simple. Asexual is kinda what I'm thinking. But he could be bi-curious? Whatever the truth it has made for some funny awkward moments! He could just be very secure with his heterosexuality and see nothing wrong with saying Spike is So cool, damn I persoanlly think Spike is cool for hooking up with Anya!
(backs away all jealous like....)

Well, just because they have healthy lesbian role models on the show, doesn't mean they don't also make some jokes about Andrew's secret sexual preference. When he was with Jonathon and Warren, it wouldn't have been acceptable for him to be out.

In the example I gave about him saying Spike was "SO cool" he didn't say it in a way suggesting he was secure with his heterosexuality. In fact, it was the opposite. He said it, then looked scared and glanced furtively at Warren and Jonathon, then clearly tried to cover it up by saying that "the girl's hot too" really casually. It was definitely a joke about Andrew being more into watching Spike than watching Anya.

But there are other examples, like in Storyteller where he memorized Anya's speech to Xander and kept replaying the tape, letting Xander say his part on the tape, and then Andrew mouthed the words to only Anya's part, like he was playing the scene and he was Anya.

That coupled with how he ignored Willow and Kennedy making out in the same episode, but instead panned to Xander's handiwork doesn't show that he's oblivious to all sexual or romantic interaction, only to that with just women. But the stereotype of heterosexual guys is being into the girl-on-girl action. I think that most people saw the many examples of this kind of thing as a definite statement of Andrew's sexuality, whether or not he was willing to admit it to himself or anyone else.

[CowboyGuy]

I don't think it's about gay men, versus lesbians.

At one point in Season 3, Joss was decided that he was going to turn either Willow or Xander gay. Since Seth Green expressed a need to leave the show it was decided that Willow would become a lesbian.

In fact, if it would have been Xander...Larry was slated to be his boyfriend.

[CowboyGuy]

Well if Joss did say that I don't agree with him.

Will & Grace was a very popular show.

[colonelforbin]

Mikey...such language!

Funny how the issue 3 thread has turned into a discussion of Andrews sexuality.

Girl Power...I definately agree with you and the abundance of "hints" about Andrew. But, he went out with 2 hot ladies in Italy and was obvioulsy proud of that (check out his face as he walks away) Also, I don't differentiate between gay women and gay men, that's why I feel that if Andrew is gay and they have only used his sexuality for some immature gay jokes, that's just sad and takes away from Willow/Tara. Sure society is more accepting of lesbians but: THAT IS JUST PLAIN WRONG!!! Gay jokes are a product of homophobia, it's as simple as that. Now if Andrew is just oblivious and/or uncertain of his sexuality that's one thing, but if Joss and his writters are blatantly using Andrew as a vessel for deep rooted homophobia that's just not right. Sure it's may be funny but it would be insulting to some proud gay guys that see a strong lesbian couple that showed true emotion and love and a gay guy as just joke fodder. This is why I think, no, HOPE Andrew is just a dork and oblivious to sexualy suggestive comments and doesn't even realize that people think he's gay. (ie. your examples) I'm sure if he was asked he'd be like "WHAT? What do you mean, like I walk gay, talk gay what is it that makes you think I'm gay. oh my god do all of you think this, not that there's anything wrong with that?"

Mikey...it is time for an openly gay male couple in Buffy...they've done it in Young Avengers and Ultimate X-Men. Why not Buffy??? Good story telling reflects the times and issues of the era...homosexuals are still treated as lower class citizens and are discriminated against all the time. Crap! Just look at all the States that passed gay marriage amendments. It is a disservice for Joss to celebrate gay woman and not gay men!!!

[airgirl]

I think Andrew is unaware of his sexuality, probably because he's very immature and inexperienced in that area. Like colonelcorbin called it: Asexual.

However, It would be great to see him have a sexual awakening and find a hot, muscular stereotype breaking boyfriend like Mikey suggests. I guess the problem is that he's an essentially comic character, so it would be difficult to give him a serious storyline - but I'm sure they could find a way without resorting to stereotyping and trivialising homosexuality.

[colonelforbin]

mikey said:

I just want to see a strong gay male hero. There just AREN'T any. Anywhere, in any show/movie/comic/etc...

Yes there are Mikey, read my post above. Young Avengers and Ultimate X-Men both have gay super heros. Ultimate Colossus is gay! That's pretty big and strong to me! And...Russian if you dig accents.

Also check this out:
www.gayleague.com/gay/characters/index.php

[colonelforbin]

Well Mikey...I did my best to help a brother out.

The Mainstream just isn't interested. The two comics I mentioned are probably the best and you should check out Young Avengers! I hope the TPB printed the leters from the individual issues since Allan Heinberg (the series creator and ex-OC writer) recieved a lot of flack for the inclusion of 2 main characters involved in a gay relationship. Not to mention a third character that is a rape survivor.

I really think it's one of the best and most important comics of our time.

And sadly we are waaaaay far off from any real, serious gay male hero's. I'm not even gay and am offended by all the hate and discrimination. Oh well....maybe one day people can just accept everyone for who they are and judge them on their character NOT orientation. Until then...stay proud and check out the YA!

[Girl Power]

mikey said:

Mainstream, my friend. Mainstream. I'm not talking about little spinoffs that only comic fanatics read. And I was mostly talking about film and TV.

What about Batman and Robin? The Ambiguously Gay Duo? ;D


On another topic, does anyone else wonder whose boots those were hanging in the air at the end of issue #1. Were those supposed to be some of the zombies attacking the castle? Or do we just not know yet? Seems like it hasn't been resolved.

[Shin]

girlpower said:

mikey said:

Mainstream, my friend. Mainstream. I'm not talking about little spinoffs that only comic fanatics read. And I was mostly talking about film and TV.

What about Batman and Robin? The Ambiguously Gay Duo? ;D


On another topic, does anyone else wonder whose boots those were hanging in the air at the end of issue #1. Were those supposed to be some of the zombies attacking the castle? Or do we just not know yet? Seems like it hasn't been resolved.

Some people think it's Ethan, well at least they thought it was the same guy as the dream guy. The only connection is that those shoes fit the appearance of the dream guy when we didn't know him yet. But well it seems rather weird for him to appear in corporeal form from far away first and then in a dream. Seems kind of unrelated if you ask me.

[hitnrun017]

I too thought that the floaty guy and dream guy where the same guy. But after finding out it was Ethan, I didn't think so anymore. Like Shin said, it seems unrelated.

[colonelforbin]

I'm going with unrelated and throw in a good possibility that'll be many issues until anyone reveals anything more on it.

This is being handled like a traditional comic and in no way are they trying to pattern it after the show. In comics a writter will drop clues to upcomming story lines way in advance of actualy doing anything with them. Joss has become a true comic writter. Some may remember in another thread I hit it square that Willow would be featured on the last panel of #2. Just a thought as this would be typical of how comic writters handle story telling.

[airgirl]

colonelforbin said:

I'm going with unrelated and throw in a good possibility that'll be many issues until anyone reveals anything more on it.
.

Yeah, I think the floating legs in #1 are not Ethan. They are black boots, trousers, long black coat, Ethan in the dream sequence was in brown.

There is a clue there, as to who floating legs is - think all the way back to season 2 of buffy and the episode School Hard. Spike's very first appearance is a shot of his feet and lower legs, getting out of a car - that's what we see before we even see his face. It's the exact same image as the floating legs in s8

[postitnote]

I still seem to think it's Spike, except for the flying thing has me questioning...maybe that's part of his ghosty existence? Then again, there's that whole 'he couldn't leave' thing about LA and Angel when he was 'haunting' him. These two things make me think it's NOT Spike...

It could be Riley...I don't know. That's just another theory of mine. He disappeared on a floating ladder at the end of 'As You Were'...so why wouldn't he appear on a floating ladder?

Then again, it may have something to do with that whole symbol/monster thing Giles is working on. It's still up in the air. There are tons of possibilities at this point.

Good spot on the Spike imagery, airgirl.

[Shin]

postitnote said:

I still seem to think it's Spike, except for the flying thing has me questioning...maybe that's part of his ghosty existence? Then again, there's that whole 'he couldn't leave' thing about LA and Angel when he was 'haunting' him. These two things make me think it's NOT Spike...

It could be Riley...I don't know. That's just another theory of mine. He disappeared on a floating ladder at the end of 'As You Were'...so why wouldn't he appear on a floating ladder?

Then again, it may have something to do with that whole symbol/monster thing Giles is working on. It's still up in the air. There are tons of possibilities at this point.

Good spot on the Spike imagery, airgirl.

Seeing as Spike is either corporeal or dead during Buffy Season 8, it's not the ghost thing that would make him flying.

[xander84]

I honestly was glad to see Willow back, when she said that Kennedy died I was like THANK GOD!!! But it was for a month..... Buffy's the only cool slayer who dies and comes back wahts' up with that?

Warren just made me go WTF?! I was like what? No way!

This issue I did like but it just made me want issue 4 more because it had so many questions. The dream scene was fun and the cubes were awesome. I just want more...

I feel like a greedy punk!

[esc]

From reading #3, Joss has kept with the theme of no one staying dead due to magical death. But I'm not sure how Kennedy dead?

Does anyone wonder if any of the new characters made for the comic will get their chance in the spotlight? Or do you prefer the characters we know already to be the main focus? For me, I wouldn't mind more character development of the Slayers in Training with the main folks.

[stakey]

esc said:

From reading #3, Joss has kept with the theme of no one staying dead due to magical death. But I'm not sure how Kennedy dead?

Does anyone wonder if any of the new characters made for the comic will get their chance in the spotlight? Or do you prefer the characters we know already to be the main focus? For me, I wouldn't mind more character development of the Slayers in Training with the main folks.

I definately agree but I think for now its important to focus on our main group to pull us bakc into their lives...and then after a few more issues delve into the other characters.

saying that though...issue 5 is all about a slayer who is one of the decoy buffys so I guess that wil be a chance to get away form the main 4 and focus on a new character....plus Im sure faiths arc will be full of new characters...cant wait!

[colonelforbin]

esc said:

From reading #3, Joss has kept with the theme of no one staying dead due to magical death. But I'm not sure how Kennedy dead?

Does anyone wonder if any of the new characters made for the comic will get their chance in the spotlight? Or do you prefer the characters we know already to be the main focus? For me, I wouldn't mind more character development of the Slayers in Training with the main folks.

Well following my "This is a comic and Joss is a typical comic writer" creed I definately see some of the stand alone issues going in depth with new as well as old characters, it'll all depend on the writters, there's plenty of opportunities to do character studies with this series.

Some of the best comic stories ever writen have been stand alone character studies. Some comic readers might remember one of Brian Michael Bendis's issues from his run on Ultimate X-Men, the stand alone with Wolverine having to assasinate a young mutant that is too powerful to contol. It was a heart breaking issue that examines the "grey area" in humanity and is one of the finest comic stories I have ever read. I hope for some stories like this with Buffy since I've said it many times, Joss is now a full fledged comic writer. We should look forward to more comic based stories and these intimate character studies are a part of comic writing.

So far this comic has been....hm....fun. Probably the best way to describe it so far. Not exactly fantastic as a comic. But I see huge potential...especially when Jeph Loeb, Brian K. Vaughn and Brad Meltzer get their chance!!! These are some of the BEST in comics and will most likely produce some amazing stories, ones that will make Joss jealous (these are his current idols!)

[CowboyGuy]

I really think that it's going great. The first issues are feeling so rushed and crammed full because I think they need to get everything set up character wise.

New readers need to know who is who, and what is going on with the story. I think that issue 5 will mark the beginning of character studies and stuff like that. By that time, we'll have finished the first arc and things will be a bit more fleshed out, setting up a nice plot for the Faith arc.

I bet one million bucks that by issue 9 or 10, Faith will be in Scotland with the rest of the gang

[colonelforbin]

admin said:

I really think that it's going great. The first issues are feeling so rushed and crammed full because I think they need to get everything set up character wise.

New readers need to know who is who, and what is going on with the story. I think that issue 5 will mark the beginning of character studies and stuff like that. By that time, we'll have finished the first arc and things will be a bit more fleshed out, setting up a nice plot for the Faith arc.

I bet one million bucks that by issue 9 or 10, Faith will be in Scotland with the rest of the gang

Oh, it's definately off to a great start. It'll be a few more arcs to really get going. But compared to what I expect from Joss (Astonighing X-Men) and comics in general it's a little thin to me. There's just a lot going on and it's tough to tell so many stories in 22 pages. To me it's almost like Joss is feeling obligated to re-introduce everyone a little to quickly and the story just seems too flimsy. Although this has got to be difficult to get going again after such a long break and so many new ideas, it's probably pretty overwhelming for him right now. That's why I eagerly await some of the fantastic comic writters approach. I hope the Faith arc is just about her and only shows quick glimpses of what the other characters are doing every so often. But like I said it's fun, but no where near as good as many comics on the shelves these days quality wise. Including Joss's 2 other books, Astonishing X-Men and Runaways!

But I'll just chalk it up as an overwhelming task of bringing us back into the Buffy-verse! It will get better, much better.