Did Xander try to rape Buffy?

[Randi Giles]

I was reading about Nick B. upcoming role on Private Practice and somebody brought up how hard it's going to be to watch that.(He will be playing a rapist) Someone else stated that it's no different from when Xander tried to rape Buffy in The Pack. I have never even thought of it before so I don't really know what to think of it. Another fan said in Xanders defense that he was possessed, which is the argument that I'm leaning towards. What do you all think about it?

[orangejuicepony]

I don't think that Xander was at all to blame for that. It was all the hyena possessing him, Just like it was all the hyenas fault that the other members of the pack ate the principal.

[nl197]

I don't know who this "someone else" is, but they are desperately reaching and failing miserably.

[Skytteflickan88]

In think it will probably be different to watch, since that character won't have a animal possessing him.

But yes, Xander, possessed not-himself-Xander, tried to rape Buffy. I doubt Xander had anything else in mind. He was going to have Buffy, wherther she liked it or not.

Have I mentioned lately what a big hypocrite Xander is for blaming souled Spike & souled Angel for what they did when they didn't have souls? Xander knows what's it's like to not be 100 per cent yourself and hurt the ones you love, yet he's never seen reflecting on what he did, and relating it to his hatred for Angel & Spike (too be fair, he wasn't as mean to Spike as he was to Angel).

[Randi Giles]

Oct 15, 2010 14:43:26 GMT -5 @nl197 said:

I don't know who this "someone else" is, but they are desperately reaching and failing miserably.

Lol. That's what I thought. You can read the whole thing if you want. In the Movies & TV thread there's a link under Nicholas...Private Practice.

Edit - I don't claim Xander anymore, but how dare someone say he is rapist.

[nl197]

Nicholas is what the N in my username stands for, and there was one guy in my animation class in high school who used to refer to me as Xander but at the time I had no idea who he was talking about, since I hadn't seen Buffy, only ANGEL at that point.

[Josh]

Yeah Xander was definitely possessed by a spirit and thus it's a stretch to say that Xander himself tried to rape Buffy.

Although I do agree with the person before that the Pack kind of makes Xander a hypocrite when it comes to Angel and Spike and I've never even thought of that before.

[BuffyFanOne]

For some reason I can't wrap my head around Xander raping Buffy. That was not Xander in that episode. It was the spirit that was possessing him. Although I think we can safely say that whatever was possessing Xander was acting on Xander's primal instincts and desires. At that point in the season, Xander was OBSESSED with Buffy so the demon/spirit acted on his obsession.

So maybe we could deduce that it was Xander' fault that Buffy was almost raped but it wasn't Xander doing the attempted raping.

[jtmaster13]

Oct 15, 2010 20:39:25 GMT -5 Josh said:

Yeah Xander was definitely possessed by a spirit and thus it's a stretch to say that Xander himself tried to rape Buffy.

Although I do agree with the person before that the Pack kind of makes Xander a hypocrite when it comes to Angel and Spike and I've never even thought of that before.

Yup especially since he remembers the entire ordeal and remembers everything that happened.

[abuffyfan]

The only person who ever tried to rape Buffy was Spike. Fact.

[Skytteflickan88]

^^

Buffy was about to be raped by someone who had Xander's memories, lust and body. And that was not Spike. You can call that a fact if you like.

Also, there's the swim coach who tried to give Buffy as "entertainment" to the swim team. Not sure what that would be called in a court of law, but it's rape-ish. Also, we have no idea how many people that have tried to rape Buffy, since we don't know her life in detail. Could be something that happend off screen.

So no, it's not a fact that Spike is the only person to try to rape Buffy. It's very much open to interpretation who/what tried to rape Buffy in The Pack, but it was a rape attempt, not done by Spike.

Of course, I bet a real good laywer could convince a jury that "Xander" was just playing around, boy-stuff, no "real" harm or rape intended, but I think we can all assume that's where it was headed.

[iigreenii]

I had so forgotten about the swim coach and his boys. Also what about the guy in Reptile Boy who was about to assault Buffy after she was drugged by them? It was definitely leading there.

[tkts]

In Buffy, the lines between rape and other kinds of assault or torture tend to get pretty blurred. Especially since it's usually being done by a monster of some kind -- making it somewhat harder to read their intentions -- and because Buffy pretty much always kicks their asses before they get even close to succeeding.

Interestingly, vampires -- except for Spike, and Angelus in flashbacks -- never really seem to show any interest in what we conventionally think of as rape. But the parallels that are constantly drawn between sex and the act of a vampire feeding make it possible to argue that much of what vampires do in the series is a stand-in for rape.

[Miss. Rogueh]

I think rape is defintly where Xander was headed. With his feelings for Buffy at the time and the primal nature from the hyena...

[BuffyFanOne]

I have never seen it as anything but attempted rape (The Pack).
I am intrigued by all the conversation in this thread about if that was really where it was heading. I think I need to watch this episode again!

[buffyfan21]

When I first read the subject line my initial reaction was, "What?! When did that happen?!" But then I remembered the scene from S1, The pack. So I guess an argument could be made that Xander did attempt to rape/sexually assault Buffy, but in his defense it wasn't exactly "him," he was possessed by an evil hyena spirit.

[Scarygothgirl]

It's somoething I think of every time Xander gets angry about Spike attempting to rape Buffy. It wasn't entirely his fault as he was possessed and thus acting on primal instincts, but then again Spike had no soul at the time. And Spike had enough moral sense to seek redemption, whereas Xander pretended to forget the whole thing.

[joxerlives]

On my rewatch I found Buffy was raped/sexually assaulted in;

The Pack by possessed Xander
The Swimteam and human Cam in Go Fish
Pirate Larry in Halloween
Spike in Seeing Red
The Shadowmen's demon in Get It Done

If we believe that Buffy/Dracula was at least semi-consensual? Xander, Larry etc are not to blame for their actions no more so than unsouled Spike so Buffy fogives them easily. Of course we also have Willow having sex with Tara after interfering with her mind and Faith having sex with Riley whilst pretending to be Buffy. And of course poor old Cordy getting knocked up three times by different demons plus Angel's treatment of Darla and Illyria infecting Fred. Angelus and unsouled Spike also seem to be big on rape, the gypsy girl and the little girl in the coal cellar springing to mind.

I think in many ways vamps represent the human fear AND fetish for rape, you could certainly see that with the Master pawing at then biting Buffy, both seeming to derive pleasure from him penetrating her body with his fangs

[Skytteflickan88]

Nothing consensual about Dracula, but I don't know if they did anything sexual other than the biting.

Coal cellar? I only remember the bride with Angelus, and Spike joking about it until it turned out it was Dru. Then there was Spike saying he wanted to "have" Willow and almost not caring she said no (and him saying he had "had" a shopkeeper, and if it was the one he bit, that was probably not consensual).

Wow, there was a lot of rape-stuff in the shows. I had repressed that.

[joxerlives]

Oct 24, 2010 10:33:40 GMT -5 Skytteflickan88 said:

Nothing consensual about Dracula, but I don't know if they did anything sexual other than the biting.

Coal cellar? I only remember the bride with Angelus, and Spike joking about it until it turned out it was Dru. Then there was Spike saying he wanted to "have" Willow and almost not caring she said no (and him saying he had "had" a shopkeeper, and if it was the one he bit, that was probably not consensual).

Wow, there was a lot of rape-stuff in the shows. I had repressed that.

I always thought Buffy and Drac had sex. I remember I used to say that Joyce and Giles had sex in Band Candy and people didn't believe it until Earshot came along. I always thought Willow and Tara were lovers too and a lot of people didn't buy that until it became text. Come to think of it, what happened between Joyce and Drac?

Remember the gypsy girl Angelus and Darla rape which is why they cursed him? Also Spike's story of the girl in the coal cellar her tells to Dawn and later elaborates to Buffy in season 7

Yeah, for such a professed feminist Joss kinda has his cake and eats it. Check out the scene in Alien 4 where Ripley get's carried off by the alien drone?