iloveromy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
[Mo0:10]
Posts: 684
|
Post by iloveromy on Aug 11, 2008 13:04:25 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Skytteflickan88 on Aug 11, 2008 14:02:37 GMT -5
Well the demon was certinely not conscious. But I bet trading-spells like that are delicate. Spike killed/knocked unconsious because he had to, but taht could have daamged the spell. In issue 17, Willow had the choice to go with the safe option, to return the demon they way it came.
|
|
champ10
Innocent Bystander
[Mo0:25]
Posts: 25
|
Post by champ10 on Aug 11, 2008 16:39:29 GMT -5
Dark Willow couldn't be a more perfect ally for Harth, because there's such a parallel dynamic in her relationship to Buffy as there is between he and Melaka. Both villains were the closest friends and have been <i>deeply</i> loved by our leading protagonists (so much so that our heroes have enormous difficulty separating that emotion from their duty to eliminate their now-evil loved ones).
It's so deliciously evil and thoroughly heartbreaking. I fear their may be no saving Buffy and Willow's friendship after this.
On the flip-side... looks like Buffy finally found someone she's got something in common with. Hopefully through Fray, Buffy can feel a little less lonely...?
|
|
|
Post by buffysmglover on Aug 11, 2008 16:46:04 GMT -5
Vampmogs posted this on Buffy Forums: This issue also played on the fairytale imagery and themes again, it definitely appears to be a strong theme this season and far more prevalent than other seasons before it. With Willow calling Buffy a "princess" who's come from her "kingdom" and with Darth Willow herself being the evil queen in the long black dress and with her chalice in her "castle." There's been numerous references to Buffy being a queen or a princess, now we just have to figure out who the "prince" is she has to save. Vampmogs calling Willow the evil queen makes me think of how she's dressed in dark clothes, thus she's also the black queen. Bringing this back to the chess metaphor we've had running in terms of Twilight, remember that the queen is the most powerful piece on the board in a game of chess. That fact definitely applies to Dark Willow. I realize this is a post from page 12 or 13 and I really should stay in the now, but just wanted to say I like your thinking. Sorry to say, but I didn't like Fray's language at all, I just thought it was silly. I found it distracting, too, and I have read "Fray". The slang wasn't used anywhere near this much in the original--she mostly talked like us, with just a new adjective here or there ("toy" for "lame", "rocketship" for "cool"). This reminds me of the "Dark Tower" series where, after a 6-year break between books 4 and 5, Stephen King came back to it with a whole new batch of slang for the characters in the final 3 books that they hadn't used at all in the original 4. It was annoying there, and it's just as annoying here. I think the reason for it, tho, is just to make Buffy feel even more out-of-place, and make it just a little bit tougher for her to understand what's going on... I think the simplest explanation of that is that he means he remembers fighting Willow in S6 (Buffy's memories), and the "someone he loves" is Buffy herself, referring to the fact that Willow was Buffy's best friend. I really hope not. I'm wanting this to connect to what Robin said about a betrayal.
|
|
narflet
Potential Slayer
grr. arg.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 198
|
Post by narflet on Aug 11, 2008 19:40:13 GMT -5
Sidebar, but was anyone else disappointed with how dark the Chen cover came out in the printing?
|
|
brandonr
Potential Slayer
"That's mine." "Well you're about to get it back."[Mo0:0]
Posts: 168
|
Post by brandonr on Aug 11, 2008 21:30:43 GMT -5
narflet, I posted something about that in my review. I was surprised more than anything about the darkness of the cover, because the pictures released online looked a lot lighter.
|
|
narflet
Potential Slayer
grr. arg.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 198
|
Post by narflet on Aug 12, 2008 13:17:42 GMT -5
|
|
El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
|
Post by El Diablo Robotico on Aug 12, 2008 13:59:38 GMT -5
Compare - L: From DH site, R: Printed cover Maybe it's the way my monitor's calibrated, but the version on the right looks WAY darker than the printed copy I'm holding in my hand. The actual hard copy of it came out looking somewhere in between those two images. It would've been nice if it was a little lighter, but it's not so dark that it really bothers me...
|
|
|
Post by xmadxscientistx on Aug 12, 2008 14:22:38 GMT -5
Yeah, the same is true with my varient cover. Sorta between the two.
|
|
|
Post by Skytteflickan88 on Aug 12, 2008 15:51:11 GMT -5
I wonder if Buffy will see evil Willow in the future, be sent home, and then mistreat present-Willow, because of fear. And then Buffy realizes that that is what turns Willow evil, Buffy's misstrust. Then she cries in front of an broken egg, because she betrayed herself and what means most to her;
Her friends & family.
|
|
brandonr
Potential Slayer
"That's mine." "Well you're about to get it back."[Mo0:0]
Posts: 168
|
Post by brandonr on Aug 12, 2008 16:00:37 GMT -5
The thing that caught my eye first about the darker cover was the border where they print the title and the writer's names. It looks next-to-black on the printed version, and looks like teal on the version released online.
And I definitely missed this "egg" thing that everyone keeps saying Buffy was crying in front of. I remember Buffy laying on the ground, all cut up, and crying, but I didn't see the egg. I'll have to look for it after I move this weekend and I unpack my comics.
|
|
kimtaro
Ensouled Vampire
Everybody's Buttmonkey
Crime tastes funny[Mo0:10]
Posts: 1,087
|
Post by kimtaro on Aug 12, 2008 16:10:45 GMT -5
Ugh. I'm so disappointed. Not because I expected Dru, but because Willow sad and alone. So depressing.
|
|
anneke
Innocent Bystander
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 4
|
Post by anneke on Aug 12, 2008 16:16:30 GMT -5
Hi, I'm an italian fan, sorry for my bad english.
I love Buffy season eight and I think that this arc is very good... I can't wait to read the next issue!
I just wanted to know... did you understand the meaning of every "new-slang" word?
|
|
El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
|
Post by El Diablo Robotico on Aug 12, 2008 16:42:04 GMT -5
Hi, I'm an italian fan, sorry for my bad english. I love Buffy season eight and I think that this arc is very good... I can't wait to read the next issue! I just wanted to know... did you understand the meaning of every "new-slang" word? Hi, anneke--welcome! The only one I haven't figured out yet is when Erin says she needs an "ock" for pulling over the truck full of vamps. Based on context, I assume it's something like "probable cause", but I can't figure out the 'real' word that it originally came from...
|
|
|
Post by Rebecca on Aug 12, 2008 16:49:08 GMT -5
Is anyone else now inclined to believe that Willow is the betrayer mentioned in ABH? I know it's been mentioned before, but the latest issue make me think it's more plausible now in this arc.
In TOYL pt. 2, Harth says to 'future' Willow: "I remember fighting you. In the dream, you hurt me. Not just fighting--you're connected to someone I love." As kingofcretins explained, the one Harth loves is a slayer. So Willow hurts a slayer, and not just physically. This lends me to think of betrayal.
**SPOILER**
After seeing the Issue 19 cover, and Buffy cowering in Willow's eye, even before this issue, it made me think of that vision of the betrayal in ABH with Buffy bruised, beaten, and crying on the floor.
There is one caveat to this theory: "The closest, the most unexpected"
I did think Willow was the betrayer after reading ABH (simply because her 'more than I already have' flashback didn't disprove anything), however I was apprehensive because Willow didn't seem that unexpected to Buffy, since she did immediately accuse Willow. In addition, they don't seem that close since both of them are keeping secrets from each other.
However, I think that the rift so well visualized at the end of ABH has not been so apparent through WATG or the first issue of TOYL, and if the betrayal were to occur at the end of this arc as the Issue 19 cover suggests, the "closest, most unexpected" villain from Buffy's standpoint could be 'future' Willow.
|
|
narflet
Potential Slayer
grr. arg.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 198
|
Post by narflet on Aug 12, 2008 18:08:59 GMT -5
Hi, I'm an italian fan, sorry for my bad english. I love Buffy season eight and I think that this arc is very good... I can't wait to read the next issue! I just wanted to know... did you understand the meaning of every "new-slang" word? Hi, anneke--welcome! The only one I haven't figured out yet is when Erin says she needs an "ock" for pulling over the truck full of vamps. Based on context, I assume it's something like "probable cause", but I can't figure out the 'real' word that it originally came from... I took that to be a mutation of 'ok', as in she needed to get the ok to 'spill a van'. I worked out most, or got the implication of them.
|
|
dane5by5
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 734
|
Post by dane5by5 on Aug 14, 2008 9:13:46 GMT -5
I just re-read the issue, and I have a feeling Willow's speech, which I had issues with when she said, "Oh! I suck at tough guy talk" could be used as a subtle juxtaposition with Dark Willow in the future. I think Dark Willow will have already made a tough choice or taken a strong stand against something Buffy believed in OR in the future she's going to do that, to prevent something from happening in the past which results in Fray's time coming to pass. There has to be a reason Dark Willow looks so sad. I don't think she gave in to the dark magics this time. It's something else entirely.
Another theme I noticed is the Scooby gang is fragmented like in season four. Giles off with Faith, Buffy in the future with Fray, Willow in New York with Kennedy and Xander in Scotland with Dawn. Nothing good comes when they're apart. They're much more vulnerable, like the attack on the castle.
|
|
Joe
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Obsessive Paranoid Boob
"Gypsies are filthy people! We shall speak of zem no more!" *spits* -Ilona Costa Bianchi[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2,786
|
Post by Joe on Aug 16, 2008 8:39:32 GMT -5
|
|
Slayer489
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
"Why do I feel like this? Why do I let Spike do those things to me?" - Buffy 'Dead Things'[Mo0:0]
Posts: 784
|
Post by Slayer489 on Aug 18, 2008 14:32:37 GMT -5
What a great issue. Loved the bits with Fray and Erin. Loved that the language change has been expanded more and that Buffy recognized it. The 'foot soldiers' from the explosion are cool, and Xander riding Dawn was funny. Seeing Harth again was great and I seriously couldn't decide whether the mystery woman was Willow or Dru. I think that they have been dressing Willow like they have been for the whole of this season because they wanted to mislead us into thinking it was either Dru or her. Makes sense now. I thought it was a bit too obvious to be Dru. Great issue and looking forward to the next.
|
|
effy
Innocent Bystander
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 18
|
Post by effy on Aug 18, 2008 16:24:26 GMT -5
I'm really wondering what made dark willow come back! Do you think it could have been that gothic witch bitch from Wolves At The Gate? Cause It didnt say if she was a vamp or not! cause if she was that knife to the back wouldn't have killed her unless it severed her spine wich i doubt.
|
|