Seriously, can Angel even compare with BTVS?

[Mathieu]

I hope I am not offending anyone by asking this question. The thing is I'm currently trying to rewatch the whole series of Angel because I missed like two thirds of the episodes when they were aired and I can't stand the idea that I have so many gaps to fill in the Buffyverse.

And let's say that I do enjoy watching Angel, it's fun and all but in my honest opinion it doesn't compare to Buffy. At all. Not even remotely.

I remember that every minute of every Buffy episode was legendary. I couldn't miss not even one second, not even one line. I would have rather died than missed one single line of the show.

When I'm watching Angel I have to admit that sometimes I find myself a little bored when they try to solve cases that have nothing to do with the main arc. Plus it seems like it's always the same storyline. Cordy has a vision, she sends the guys on the case and they kill the monster. End of the story. (Don't misunderstand me, it's not always excatly like that but most of the time yes it's the idea). Every episode seems more of the same with the same greeny monster stories.

I liked how every season of Buffy had a main arc that covered all the season with a big bad fight looming in the end. We always had big tragic events to look forward to. And every season of Buffy was SO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, with a very distinct atmosphere.

I miss having big arcs like that in Angel... so far. I'm only starting season 3 (but I already know what's to come, more or less).

Besides, and now people are going to start to be mad, sometimes I feel like the characters in Angel are being... out of character... sort of? Like Cordelia, it seems to me that she sounds fake sometimes, like exagerated, not credible. Angel too. They try to have him act all cute and goofy in season 2. It's both funny and... weird. I dunno. I'm confused. Plus I hate the fact monsters are everywhere in LA. I liked that they tried to hide in Sunnydale, but in LA it looks like a huge Mardi Gras thing with parades everyday down the streets.

Want to weigh in?

PS: I do like the show though!

[Wyndam]

Angel is not only my favorite Joss Whedon show, but my favorite show altogether. It's been that way ever since I watched it all the way through a few years ago. Not really sure what does it for me, but the show just "clicked" for me, I guess you could say. I like the characters better, and that the show is one continual arc.

Whenever I watch the AtS DVD's, and I finish with Season 5, I usually turn around and watch the entire series again. I've never done that with BtVS (as I usually get a little bored after Season 5). That doesn't mean I don't like BtVS. BtVS is my second favorite show, after AtS. But to answer your question, yes I'd say it does compare with BtVS.

[Enisy]

As I see it, it only rose up to Buffy's level in its fifth season, and that was when it got cancelled. Pout. (That's not to say it was a bad show otherwise -- it's one of my top 5 favourites. Just not Buffy-quality.)

[jessesopher]

Angel was much better than Buffy in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, Buffy is an amazing show, but Buffy just doesn't compare to Angel at all.

Angel was darker, aimed at a slightly older demographic, and had an amazing cast of characters that really interacted well. Angel's cast more like a "family" than Buffy's, IMO.

Although Buffy was only technically in high school for 3 seasons, it was really a "coming of age" story. Angel, on the other hand, was a story about redemption... a theme that everyone can relate to in one way or another.

[jessesopher]

Sept 9, 2008 11:31:37 GMT -5 Wyndam said:

Angel is not only my favorite Joss Whedon show, but my favorite show altogether. It's been that way ever since I watched it all the way through a few years ago. Not really sure what does it for me, but the show just "clicked" for me, I guess you could say. I like the characters better, and that the show is one continual arc.

Whenever I watch the AtS DVD's, and I finish with Season 5, I usually turn around and watch the entire series again. I've never done that with BtVS (as I usually get a little bored after Season 5). That doesn't mean I don't like BtVS. BtVS is my second favorite show, after AtS. But to answer your question, yes I'd say it does compare with BtVS.

I do the same thing! I always restart the series. About once a year, though, I start with Buffy season 1 and watch both complete series in order.

Man... I'm so lame... lol.

[eternalspikefan]

I loved both!

I feel like they were both amazing in their own rights ;D
I feel that Buffy was more light hearted and amied at a younger generation initially and was very entertaining, whereas Angel was more aiming for adult viewers however still had the Joss Whedon comedy that we have come to know and love!

I loved both and can't pick. I can't force myself to say yeah Buffy was more entertaining or Angel was more serious without wanting to kick myself and go into a huge list of reasons why both were enjoyable for various reasons but Im just trying to give a rough idea as to why I choose both

[Skytteflickan88]

It took me years to stop thinking "Angel is nothing like Buffy, it's great compared to other shows, but not compared to Buffy).

Nowdays I find myself needing Angel sometimes, and Buffy other times. It depends which mood I'm in.

The characters are different, they have different cases/demons, the town vs city. For example, in Angel we saw friends abandoning friends, something we never saw in Buffy, the characters have differrent chemistry. Buffy's core four are three young humans and one older brit, with ocasional love/sex-interest. Angel is essentially about the vampire angel (who's sometime an real arse) and who has "helpers" of with more different backgrounds and perspectives than the characters in Buffy.

Buffy as a show has a more of a family-show feel to it than Angel, which is a tiny bit more like a crime-show.

Another swedish fan once said that Buffy was a show about growing up and Angel was a show about being a grown up. I don't know why, but that sounds smart.

It's hard to explain. I love both shows equally, but rather watch Buffy right now, because I hate Angel as a character. That kinda makes the show suck right now.

[Mathieu]

Thanks for all the votes and answers! I know most people think Angel is more of an adult show or something but I'm 21 now and I still don't click the same way I clicked with Buffy. It's clicking a little though, don't get me wrong! I guess I should give post here my final opinion when I'm done rewatching the last three seasons.

[jason321]

I still think Buffy Mk.1 (Seasons 1-3) is the best of either show, but overall I rate the 5 seasons of Angel much more than Buffy S4-7. Buffy did hit another high with S5, but after that it really started tapering off in quality. Especially S7, where it seemed difficult to like or care about any of the characters (Joss unfortunatly is much better at destroying characters than he is at rebuilding them).

[henzINNIT]

Angel creams Buffy hands down. Even if you trimmed the weaker last 2 seasons of Buffy off it'd still lose because it didn't start as well as Angel did.

[Mathieu]

Ok I might be crazy, and I only watched two full seasons of Angel... but I can't believe so many people like Angel better than Buffy. So far neither of the two first seasons of Angel that I just watched compare to any seasons of BTVS. And how come EVERYBODY takes for granted the four last seasons of Buffy were weaker? I personnally think seasons 5 and 6 were amazing and season 7 is still way better than anything I've seen on Angel. So far.

[Enisy]

Yeah, I actually agree with mathieu. The only Buffy seasons that were weaker than the average Angel season were #1 and #7, in my eyes, and even those were better than the worst Angel seasons. Furthermore, I always get the impression that Angel, as compared to Buffy, is very directionless and "all over the place" (particularly visible in Cordelia's character arc, Connor's character arc and Season 4's main plot). But to each their own...

[henzINNIT]

I'd rank them roughly something like..

A1 > A5 > B3 > B5 > B2 > B4/A3/A2 > A4 > B1 > B7 >>>> B6

People tend not to like Buffy 4, 6 or 7 en masse. I personally think 4 is good and 7 aint bad. 6 is godawful. On the whole I just like Angel more.

[jessesopher]

Mathieu, just wait till you watch season 3. It's my favorite season of Angel.... well, season 2 is also really good.

I would agree the assessment that Buffy seasons 1-3 were the strongest of either series. But also, the core Angel characters were on Buffy at that time. It's what Buffy did after Angel began that makes Angel a better show.

A lot of the Buffy episodes are kind of hit-or-miss with me. The whole issue with the Initiative was just terrible. Season 5 was amazing, though. Season 6 was terrible (mainly because of Spuffy). And, while I liked season 7 more than many fans, it was significantly weaker than Seasons 1-3 and 5.

Angel, however, had strong stories and arcs throughout the entirety of the series. There is only one episode I refuse to watch (Smile Time) because it's just that horrible. There are several on Buffy. The season arcs and character progression is a lot stronger on Angel than it was on Buffy. Just look at Cordy. The writers of Angel took this snotty, spoiled cheerleader and turned her into an amazing character. While I hated the whole Cordy/Connor story, it was still a good arc. I hated it because I didn't like the Cordy/Connor relationship, but I understood the reasons behind it. Plus, Jasmine was awesome.

Overall, I think I like the show more because it's darker. Because it was aimed at an older demographic, it could go places that Buffy couldn't go... some of the storylines were even rejected by the network for being "too dark." It was an older show with the same Whedonesque humor found on Buffy.

Of both series, my rankings would be:

Buffy season 2
Buffy Season 3
Angel Season 2
Angel Season 3
Buffy Season 5
Angel Season 1
Buffy Season 1
Angel season 5
Angel Season 4
Buffy Season 7
Buffy Season 6
Buffy Season 4

[Enisy]

Season 6 is very love-it-or-hate-it, very controversial. Some people feel the way you do... some don't, seeing as it was voted "best season" just this year in another mainstream Buffy forum. It's a very similar case to Season 4 of Angel.

I'd rank them...

B5 > A5 > B6 > B2 > B3 > A2 > A4 > B4 > A3 > B7 > B1 > A1

So yeah... I love my Buffy.

[Mathieu]

Sept 9, 2008 16:36:13 GMT -5 Enisy said:

Yeah, I actually agree with mathieu. The only Buffy seasons that were weaker than the average Angel season were #1 and #7, in my eyes, and even those were better than the worst Angel seasons. Furthermore, I always get the impression that Angel, as compared to Buffy, is very directionless and "all over the place" (particularly visible in Cordelia's character arc, Connor's character arc and Season 4's main plot). But to each their own...

THANK YOU! All over the place is exactly what the show seems to be at times. How can they start a great arc about Darla and end up telling a lame story that takes place in an alternate dimension (season 2)?? In BTVS it always seemed like the writers knew exactly where they were going and the plot was perfect, everything always fell back into place, except season 7 maybe.

[Enisy]

Yeah, the end of Angel Season 2 is also a really good example of what I meant.

Also, Jesse, you liked Cordelia's arc? Huh. Its bad structure was basically the reason she was written out of the show...

Joss Whedon: Mainly because we felt like we had taken [Cordelia's] story about as far as it could go. The Angel/Cordelia [love story] had gone pretty much as far as we wanted to take it. Their romance was definitely not a popular move on our part, and I think with most fans.

Tim Minear: (on Cordelia's storyline with Angel) Oh, let's not go back to that. That was a mistake. Let's pretend it's Season 2 and it never happened.

[Mathieu]

I'm fully aware that I need to rewatch the whole show to judge Angel as a whole. Let's say I need to rewatch the episodes in order, I already watched a lot of them and know exactly what's gonna happen later in the show (Connor/Holy Cordy/Evil Cordy/all the deaths/Spike...). But I'm curious to see how they led to us to all these storylines. I'm pretty sure I'll like the three last seasons better though, I'm not not much into stand alone episodes, that's why Angel Season 1 was unbearable (i'm pushing it i know).

[ded1]

I liked Angel a little more than Buffy as a whole.If Buffy had stopped after season 5,it might have been different.

[Mathieu]

Sept 9, 2008 17:19:10 GMT -5 ded1 said:

I liked Angel a little more than Buffy as a whole.If Buffy had stopped after season 5,it might have been different.

So what you mean is that the two last seasons of BTVS were bad enough to spoil five excellent year of the show and make you change your opinion on it? I don't see the logics here. Like seasons 6 and 7 or not, but no matter how bad (or good) those seasons were, they're more like a bonus after five great years of entertainment. And to me the last two years continued to be amazingly entertaining. I would have missed out on Dark Willow and Funny Andrew for nothing in the whole world.