Nicholas
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
One Good Scare
Tonight I'm Dancing.[Mo0:16]
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Post by Nicholas on Jan 22, 2009 0:50:21 GMT -5
One of the main things about a Slayer is that they do not kill humans. Obviously, this was largely expressed in Season 3 and an episode of Season 6.
But something I find odd is in Season 5, its once again expressed in the Gift that Buffy wouldn't take a human life yet in Spiral, one of the Knights tell Buffy that she killed 10 of his men.
So then Buffy has killed humans.
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Post by Wyndam on Jan 22, 2009 0:55:03 GMT -5
Yeah, Buffy has definitely taken human life.
Like you said, she killed a few Knights in Season 5. She only did it to keep her friends safe though. In those situations, Buffy becomes just like any other human that has to kill in self-defense. So it is okay. Well as "okay" as killing can get. Kind of similar to Fred in Season 3 of Angel, she killed one or two of Holtz's lackey's in self-defense.
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Hallow Thorn
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Post by Hallow Thorn on Jan 22, 2009 1:53:30 GMT -5
I don't get why she makes a big deal of taking Bens life... he was only part human and a bad one at that, he should of killed himself along time ago knowing all about Glory and then he would a been a hero... maybe he is Tilight lol?
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jan 22, 2009 4:40:05 GMT -5
Maybe Buffy thought the knights were not humans? Or maybe the writers forgot about that or Buffy later on is in denial.
In the Gift, are you talking about how Buffy doesn't kill Ben? Because there's a difference between killing in self defense and killing someone who lays defeated on the ground. It's the difference between killing from fear and in cold blood(not that Ben wasn't still dangerous).
And Season 6, do you mean Dead Things?
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
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Post by patxshand on Jan 22, 2009 6:33:42 GMT -5
Buffy definitely knew the knights were humans. She killed then, because if she didn't, she and her friends would die within moments.
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Post by wenxina on Jan 22, 2009 9:16:44 GMT -5
I don't get why she makes a big deal of taking Bens life... he was only part human and a bad one at that, he should of killed himself along time ago knowing all about Glory and then he would a been a hero... maybe he is Tilight lol? Ben was fully human; his body was a cage of meat and bones (wow... that's almost Anglo-Saxon in its poetry) meant to hold "The Beast" until she/it died. It was supposed to be a life-sentence without parole kinda deal, made even more ironic that a god's immortality was so frail. Of course, Glory, tenacious as she was, found ways to escape every so often... but it was always temporary. Ben wasn't a bad human, he was just merely human. He didn't want to die, which is why is caved and gave in to Glory, because she promised that he wouldn't die, even when she was freed. His "atonement" was why he wanted to be a doctor; to help people, not kill them. |
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Enisy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
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Post by Enisy on Jan 22, 2009 10:17:44 GMT -5
Steven S. DeKnight: As for Buffy killing the Knights... uh, did you get the part where they were trying to hack her and her friends into itty bitty bits? Buffy would never kill a DEFENSELESS person, even if that person had the potential to do great harm (i.e. Spike). But guys trying to kill her and everyone she loves with pointy weapons? Sometimes you just don't have a choice. Also, you might have noticed that Buffy wasn't exactly her cool, normal self, as witnessed by the catatonia at the end of Spiral. I'm sure this explanation won't please everyone, but we're really pressing for the Buffyverse to become less black and white. Kind of like it does when you grow up (hence next season's theme). Or I might have just dreamed all of that.
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Ethros
Novice Witch
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Post by Ethros on Jan 22, 2009 12:33:44 GMT -5
Caleb was human too.
Although I don't think anyone is gonna have a go at Buffy for killing him!
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jan 22, 2009 13:00:56 GMT -5
Buffy definitely knew the knights were humans. She killed then, because if she didn't, she and her friends would die within moments. When was that mentioned? It was a while since I watched season 5. Or was it in the commentary? |
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
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Post by patxshand on Jan 22, 2009 14:20:32 GMT -5
No, it's pretty much textual. She had knights running at her with swords. They would have been dead had they not fought back.
Or if you mean being human? It's not in commentaries, it's just clear from the initial watch. They're just dudes.
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
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Post by patxshand on Jan 22, 2009 14:21:58 GMT -5
Caleb was human too. Although I don't think anyone is gonna have a go at Buffy for killing him! Once Caleb became the vessel for the First, I'd argue he was no longer human the same way a vampire isn't. Same body, but made into a vessel for a demon (in Caleb's case, worse than a demon). |
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jan 22, 2009 15:03:32 GMT -5
No, it's pretty much textual. She had knights running at her with swords. They would have been dead had they not fought back. Or if you mean being human? It's not in commentaries, it's just clear from the initial watch. They're just dudes. I meant if it was said/shown that they were human. Just because some looks human doesn't mean that they are. But I assume that they were. Otherwise somene would probably have called them "blabla-demons" instead of "knights". Or maybe there were not time for research to see what kind of demons they were so they just settled for "knights". I really need to re-watch those episodes. |
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Post by henzINNIT on Jan 22, 2009 15:05:57 GMT -5
And he's way more violent and more of a prick than the knights Buffy killed anyway.
Season 7 Buffy has a lot less morals. She'd have killed Ben I think.
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Post by wenxina on Jan 22, 2009 16:00:07 GMT -5
No, it's pretty much textual. She had knights running at her with swords. They would have been dead had they not fought back. Or if you mean being human? It's not in commentaries, it's just clear from the initial watch. They're just dudes. I meant if it was said/shown that they were human. Just because some looks human doesn't mean that they are. But I assume that they were. Otherwise somene would probably have called them "blabla-demons" instead of "knights". Or maybe there were not time for research to see what kind of demons they were so they just settled for "knights". I really need to re-watch those episodes. There was never an indication that the knights (I think they were Knights of the Byzantium) were anything but human. That's what the knight Buffy defeated told her (in "Checkpoint"). Given the pride in their order, I doubt he would have lied about that. |
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Hallow Thorn
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Post by Hallow Thorn on Jan 22, 2009 20:35:44 GMT -5
And he's way more violent and more of a prick than the knights Buffy killed anyway. Season 7 Buffy has a lot less morals. She'd have killed Ben I think. I think that as well. |
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BenTaylor3907
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Post by BenTaylor3907 on Jan 22, 2009 20:44:48 GMT -5
Yes! Buffy has killed people. She might not have been the one to pull the trigger but she let the monster wielding the gun go free. Every time Buffy let Angelus, Spike.... or any other big nasty for that matter, they would kill people after. Their blood is on Buffy's hands. Is Buffy a monster? No. She's just one girl in one dimension trying to fight thousands of demons and whatnot. There are casualties but that comes with being the slayer. You can't save everyone.
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Mathieu
Ensouled Vampire
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Post by Mathieu on Jan 22, 2009 22:18:01 GMT -5
It always took Buffy an awful amount of time to accept the idea she hadto kill the bad guys she was in love with but she didn't think twice about getting ready for killing Anya in Season 7. Bad judgement?
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Post by wenxina on Jan 22, 2009 23:31:25 GMT -5
Never really understood the argument about Buffy not thinking twice about killing Anya(nka). She learned that Anya had returned to the vengeance fold in "Villains" (6.20), and it's only in "Selfless" (7.5), that she decides that Anya has to be stopped. This happens months after the events of S6, and Anya's actions in "Beneath You" (7.2) notwithstanding.
I'd say that Buffy gave Anya a fair chance, and only stepped in when Anya actually caused the deaths of the entire fraternity.
Angel was different (yes, it's always different for someone you love). She was 16 when she loved him, and 17 when she had to kill him. Plus, Angel was wily, and his whereabouts were unknown to Buffy... setting up shop at the new mansion vs the small studio.
Spike... he was neutered, and then, he had a soul (a human one). I'd say that Buffy's policy is pretty consistent when it comes to humans. The knights in S5 were a different case as it was self-defense. Even when ambushed in "Checkpoint", she never actually dealt any fatal blows, and from my recollection, during the attack on the trailer, none of her blows were fatal per se (but falling off a speeding vehicle tends to kill/maim/both).
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jan 23, 2009 8:23:56 GMT -5
It always took Buffy an awful amount of time to accept the idea she hadto kill the bad guys she was in love with but she didn't think twice about getting ready for killing Anya in Season 7. Bad judgement? Guys she was in love with? Do you mean Spike too? Because I can't remember her trying to kill him after he got his chip. |
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Enisy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
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Post by Enisy on Jan 23, 2009 10:18:14 GMT -5
She was trying to get accustomed to the idea that she might have to kill Spike in Beneath You and then Sleeper, if it counts.
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