Tara's Death - Was it really necessary?

[ambersknight]

There really wasn't one. Okay she got over her "addiction" (not gonna agree with that really) but it seemed such an anti-climax. After all that happened, good or bad, it seemed badly dealt with in 7.

Thought to be honest, my main problem with season 7 is the First, the world's most impotent baddie.

Just a case of missed oportunities. its as if they really had said all they wanted to say up until season 5 then found themselves with writing two more seasons running on empty.

[ambersknight]

Yes she learned, but as I still contend that it could have been done a different way, the learning really doesn't mean much. The end doesn't justify the means. There was more than one road from A to B and I honestly believe the writers took the wrong one. But hye, we can't all think the same or it would be a boring world.

And yeah, the First was really impotent. You would think that for the final season, they really would have pushed the boat out for a villain. But that's a subject for a separate thread i reckon.

[deathisyourgift]

May 24, 2009 16:43:04 GMT -5 @ambersknight said:

And the idea of it being Willow's storyline creates problems in itself. if Tara's only function is to serve as catalyst to Willo,w then what is the point of fleshing ehr out, if all she is is a means to an end? Moreover, questions must be asked of a writing team that whored themselves to the gay press and then stabbed them in the back.

The main character of the show is Buffy, and you cannot deny that even Xander and Willow, as secondary main characters (yes, I just made up that term ), are there only to propel Buffy's plot. Yes they have plots of their own, but they are all centered around Buffy's plot. In S1, Willow is a damsel in distress on more than one occasion, there for Buffy to save, and Xander gets in trouble and has to be saved. These characters are used as leverage by the baddies to get to Buffy, and that is pretty much how every story ever goes: the main character's plot is served by the secondary characters. Therefore it shouldn't be a shock that Tara, who is a secondary character to Willow (who I've decided to term a 'secondary main character') serves Willow's plot in the same way.

Your second point that "questions must be asked of a writing team that whored themselves to the gay press and then stabbed them in the back" is simply untrue, in my opinion. Many straight love-interest characters were killed throughout the show, does that mean the writer's were stabbing the straight press in the back? Also, Willow is still gay, and is in another serious relationship with a woman, showing that Tara wasn't some phase. Therefore, I think, that proves that the writing team didn't whore themselves to please a gay press, they simply developed their character further, and stuck to their guns by having her plunge deeper into finding love with another person of the same sex, painful as it may be for some fans of the show who perhaps do not agree with the Willow-Kennedy pairing. To me, Willow's relationship with Kennedy (as much as I dislike Kennedy..ugh) is a testament to the fact that Willow is, and will always be, a lesbian. It's not about selling shock factors or anything like that, it's how they developed the character.

As for Tara's death being less dramatic than others, I think that it is because it wasn't some evil plan by Angelus or another big bad. It was an accident that was tragic and very real, which is so the opposite to Tara's entire character. She was ethereal and almost pure, so to have her die in such a blunt way really gets me, every time I watch that episode.

Plus they lose a few more points for having the freudian cliche of having Willow return to "normal" by having a guy say he loves her. that lost tons of both points and respect with me.

As for the bullet, it was outrageous anfd their claim it showed the sheer randomness of shootings (a very noble ideal) is undermined by the sheer ludicrousness of it. having watched it again recently, it just looks terrible.

(Sidenote: As a psych major, I never really credit Freudian theories, because they really have no real life basis. They're very interesting, but to me they usually don't apply in a useful or constructive way.)

Ok, so Xander tells her he loves her. She definitely does not return to normal. Think of early S7, Willow is not herself, all Xander did was show her that there is still love in the world for her, despite Tara's unfortunate death. I know it fits the cliche, but let's give the writer's and Joss a little more credit. Xander is basically like a brother to Willow, and he's not exactly the most masculine guy on the planet, so I don't see how that argument really applies here. Your argument is that, because Xander is male, and he saves her, that perpetuates the cliche. Well there's more to it than that, it's the characters, not the genders. I find that this is the problem with these arguments, when one picks and chooses when to discriminate between cliche and detail. What I mean by this is that you seem to be willing to examine the way Tara dies, going so far as to say that the bullet flying through the second story window and hitting Tara is far fetched (which, btw, in a show that includes vampires playing kitten poker, seems a bit hypocritical to me) to the point of exhaustion. However, you don't seem to want to examine the role Xander plays in helping Willow in the final scenes, you instead rely on the cliche of "penis saves vagina:oppression and inequality" (very exaggherated summation lol). But there are many reasons why Xander is the one to help Willow. Just as there are many reasons why Tara is the one to die.

As for arguing whether this was portrayed well in the show, everyone's going to disagree on this, but I'll state my opinion for fun that I appreciated the abruptness of Tara's death. It made it feel real, like Joyce's death, without melodrama like a soap opera, but with the quiet drama reminiscent of real life.


This is a good debate/discussion going on here, and I never really questioned Tara's death before, so thanks for starting this thread, ambersknight, and thanks for posting everyone.

-Jen

[snizapman6294]

yes, imo, her death was necessary... Joss wanted Willow to become Dark Willow. He said that right when season 6 started. He knew that she would be more upset if it were Tara than Buffy, Xander, Dawn, or Anya. Yes, she loves Buffy, but she's in love with Tara. If she went all black eyed baddie for Xander, she would probably lose Tara. I don't really think she cares enough about or is close enough to Anya or Dawn to go evil.

along with the Joss wanted Dark Willow to be created: He wanted it big. and it's not like the story would've been as good as it was if Buffy just used slayer strength to kill everyone. Xander would probably die trying to kill everyone. and Anya, at this point, would have someone (a demon/vamp most likely) wish for all of them to die. and Dawn would... fail tragically.

plus, the transformation is more symbolic of Willow than anything else. She's sweet, innocent, and avoids confrontation. and she's more or less the only character for which the transformation would be as dramatic.

i was thinking about it, and the Buffy Saving Cycle boils down to this:

Willow = Tara
Buffy = Dawn
Xander = Anya
Anya = Xander (sometimes)
Spike = Buffy

[Just Willow]

there are two sides. it was necessary because we needed Dark Willow, and that was the only thing that could make her go over.

But then, i wish more than anyhting that she could still be alive. i love Tara, and i love her and Willow's relationship, and i just wish they could be together, because they are soul mates, but that's never gonna happen.

[urnofosiris]

Very necessary, and I'm just going to leave it at that.

[Mathieu]

So I think the majority agrees it was totally necessary. I don't see either what else could have gotten Willow to go over the edge. I mean, come on, Dark Willow was so badass. It would have been insane to miss that! And to jump back to something that was mentioned before, I was not shocked by the scoobies' reactions after Tara's death. I mean they had a crazy witch who was trying to put an end to the world to deal with, no time for grief. They probably had more time to mourn her in between seasons 6 and 7.

[ambersknight]

I accept that the majority believe it was necessary, but I don't. But hey, if we all believed the same thing then it would be boring.

You've made some interesting points but none I haven't heard before and as I say, they haven't convinced me the death was necessary.

And no, my view is not coloured at all by the fact that it was Tara. My problem is the dramatic lapse, as I see it. So i dismiss the idea that my objection is partisan.

[Slayer489]

You do make some good points ambersknight, however I think that Tara's death was completely necessary, since it clearly had a huge impact on the fans and the universe in general. Additionally, her death affected Willow's character development in a big way, so I think her death was extremely beneficial to the story.

Also, in 'The Zeppo', we didn't witness the long time effects of Jack and the other zombies, which were also just that...zombies. It is possible that their skin could have deteriorated further and they were clearly all very aggressive, which I doubt they were to that extent prior to their deaths. Willow was most likely aware of that type of resurrection and wouldn't want that for Tara.

Anyway, that's just my opinion.

[ambersknight]

It may have had a huge impact but not all that impact was positive, either in dramatic terms or in terms of the fans. i for one saw no positive part to the story and saw nothing beneficial in the storyline that couldn't have been handled far better in other ways.

And you are right about the possible side effects in "The Zeppo", although the skin defects seemed to be due to being buried rather than any side effect of the spell. Plus, if there were side effects, be they physical or psychological, they could have been interesting to play out within the dramatic constructs of the show.

[Randi Giles]

I think it was necssary for Willow's storyline because if Joss needed something to send Willow over to the dark side that was the thing to do.

[ambersknight]

And if it was the first time he had tried that trick it might have had more impact but as I've said before, the whole storyline in the last 4 episodes was just a diluted -re-tread of stories from previous seasons and the whole mess was nowehre near as powerful as any one of the original storylines he strip mined.

And the shock factor was mostly from people being shocked she died. How was it possibly a twist when no relationship survives on that show (either through death or the characters splitting up)? Now, the two of them staying together would ahve been a twist. Xander and Anya getting married would ahve been a twist. But by season 6 those things not happening was just business as usual, which makes it all the more galling. For a show that was built on the idea of subverting cliche, it created its own in the whedon cliche - if in doubt, hurt someone. it is a fall-back position which by default creates lazy writing.

[ambersknight]

The Buffy writers were capable of amazing thing and did on numerous ocassions but they were human and therefore they didn't get it right all the time.

[ambersknight]

Is that your summary of your postion or mine cos if its mine its not a correct summary.

A correct summary of my postion would be this:

i don't beleive the magic addiction storyline was handled properly at all, from start to finish. For reasons i ahve stated above and on other threads reagarding season 6. And yes, the fault has to be with the writers.

Now you obviously disagree and that's fine. You feel the writers got it right, I don't. Just a difference of opinion we will have to live with.

[ambersknight]

if a plot point goes the way you hoped, or you enjoyed it, you give the writers praise as I do. but when a plot point doesn't go the way you hoped, or if you feel it didn't go as well as it should have, the fault again lies with the writers. Either that or the fault lies, in both cases, with perspective.

Either way, to say that someone cannot criticise the writers of a show they love is simply undoable. if you are allowed to praise them then by default you should be allowed to criticise them when you feel they've messed up.

And I do write, albeit fanfic at the mo so i do ahve some experience in plotting things out. i even did a season 6 re-do of how I would ahve ran the magic addiction storyline from Wrecked onwards. Some people liked it, others didn't, but they all agreed it was a different way of doing it.

[ambersknight]

if I see a major plot line derailed before it starts then go nowhere fast until it is used as an excuse for a completely unnecessary "shock" death just to get us a big finish to a season, I'm gonna blame the writers. You may feel I'm wrong to do that but they wrote it, if i see failings then those failings are theirs.

We really are never gonna agree on this so let's agree to disagree cos we are just gonna go round in cricles as neither of us will se the toehr's point of virew to the point of changing their own.

[ambersknight]

Not stubborn just know my own mind.

[ambersknight]

LOL!

[gumgnome]

May 26, 2009 12:57:42 GMT -5 @ambersknight said:

if a plot point goes the way you hoped, or you enjoyed it, you give the writers praise as I do. but when a plot point doesn't go the way you hoped, or if you feel it didn't go as well as it should have, the fault again lies with the writers. Either that or the fault lies, in both cases, with perspective.

Previously you accused the writers of re-hashing old plot points with S6, of strip mining old storylines - effectively damning them for their predictable nature in setting up storylines.
In the quote above though, you criticise them for departing from how you would have liked the story to go forward - effectively for being unpredictable.

[ambersknight]

Not the contradictory statements that you see them as. it is true the story didn't progress the way I had hoped it would, but instead progressed in an all too familiar and boringly predictable manner. What they did wasn't surprising, just terribly dull and for my money, dramatically unconvincing. And I stand by my beleive that the whole Tara death/Willow gone bad is just a diluted re-hash of far better earlier storylines.