Fredikins
Rogue Demon Hunter
Crazy Taco Lady
"Occasionally I am callous and strange," Willow.[Mo0:14]
Posts: 433
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Post by Fredikins on Jun 17, 2009 2:38:10 GMT -5
It was SO unecessary!
But it did keep it interesting.
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Post by henzINNIT on Jun 17, 2009 3:22:30 GMT -5
Everything could have been done differently; not many could have been done far more effectively, in my opinion. In a show that makes a big deal out of "earning" events, I'm arguing that killing off Tara - resident demon punch bag - in order to push Willow over the edge wasn't necessary, or in-keeping with the season's theme. Efficacy doesn't equal necessity. On that we agree. However, I find it at least mildly biased to argue that other plot points may not have been utterly necessary, but are granted leeway as long as they are efficient, whereas in the case of Tara's death, an efficient plot point is lambasted because it's not utterly necessary. Tara's death was in step with the season's theme, as was the addiction, IMO. However, it's a matter of agreeing on certain basic premises, such as where the line can be drawn between being "drunk on power" and being an "addict". And since we don't agree on those precepts, there's really no point in arguing. I don't see Tara's death as efficient, I see it as lazy. I think that's where we're going to circle around on this, lol The writers turned a very dark path into a more digestable drug metaphor, which allowed for Willow to very quickly "lose control" with the promise that she could go back to relative normality. They then followed up on that by chucking a random tradegy at her to avoid the the path they'd set up with drugs this time. There could have been some real issues with the addiction itself. The addiction is in-keeping with the season's theme, we agree on that. I don't think Tara is, because it's an awfully contrived "random death". |
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Post by wenxina on Jun 17, 2009 8:42:19 GMT -5
I don't see Tara's death as efficient, I see it as lazy. I think that's where we're going to circle around on this, lol If you argue that something is the "easiest and quickest way" to get somewhere, yes, an argument can be made for "lazy", but it's also saying that it's efficient. it was just the easiest and quickest way to get where the writers wanted to go. And yes, there's circling, and I'm kinda dizzy. Just wanted to point out the inconsistency in the criticism. I'm not saying that fan reaction always has to be rational; in fact, I'm arguing that some times, fan reaction is more from the gut, and that's fine too. |
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gumgnome
Junior Vampire Slayer
Who has got the button?
Get out of my BRAIN![Mo0:1]
Posts: 970
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Post by gumgnome on Jun 17, 2009 12:52:34 GMT -5
I've stayed out of this argument for a while now, and gladly so, but I have to say that I am being more and more convinced by the points made by henzINNIT and (previously) AmbersKnight. Rewatching Season 6 recently, it seems that the path they could have taken Willow on, one where she gradually loses sight of the mission altogether as she gets wrapped up in her growing ability to forge the world around her, could have been really exciting and dark. That could have been very cool, and perhaps killing Tara is just a convenient way to sort of skip to the end of that story after an, admittedly poor and unsubtle, drug addiction metaphor.
However it really hasn't altered my enjoyment of the season for me, and that is where I feel I differ with some of the other posters here.
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Post by Midnight Butterfly on Jun 17, 2009 12:54:04 GMT -5
Bang, bang he shot her down bang, bang she hit the ground bang, bang that awful sound bang, bang Warren shot me down lol  I love that song |
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Post by Emmie on Jun 17, 2009 14:19:32 GMT -5
I've actually thought of another way the season could have gone without Warren shooting Tara. Willow continues down her dark path, eventually becomes consumed by the magics and THEN is directly responsible for Tara's death. The same way she almost killed Dawn in Wrecked and Dawn broke her arm.
Would that have been better? I think that's something Willow never could have come back from, but it's certainly a possibility. Because that season is all about Willow abusing magics and hurting the ones she loves. The way Willow manipulates Tara's mind in All the Way and again in Tabula Rasa. Essentially mindraping her twice. Instead of making Tara an accidental victim of Buffy's foe, they could have gone for the gut and made Tara a victim to Willow's drive to control, lust for power and getting lost in the magics.
I still find the idea that Tara should be "safe" to be ludicrous. With the story they were going for, with playing with that level of darkness, I think the writers had a few choices. Now they could have continued with killing Tara and having Willow come back from it and redeem herself after trying to end the world, or they could have had Willow self-destruct and kill herself in some way so that she doesn't hurt Tara after creating a situation out of her control. The problem with killing off Willow in order to save Tara is that...well, Willow fits in better as a character with the entire series where as Tara is more peripheral.
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Post by henzINNIT on Jun 17, 2009 15:18:12 GMT -5
I don't see Tara's death as efficient, I see it as lazy. I think that's where we're going to circle around on this, lol If you argue that something is the "easiest and quickest way" to get somewhere, yes, an argument can be made for "lazy", but it's also saying that it's efficient. it was just the easiest and quickest way to get where the writers wanted to go. And yes, there's circling, and I'm kinda dizzy. Just wanted to point out the inconsistency in the criticism. I'm not saying that fan reaction always has to be rational; in fact, I'm arguing that some times, fan reaction is more from the gut, and that's fine too. Efficiency isn't about being quick and easy, it's about being effective quickly and easily. I don't see an inconsistency there really, and if I thought it was efficient I wouldn't be debating here, which is where our opinion differs and yadayada, lulz |
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Post by wenxina on Jun 17, 2009 15:38:45 GMT -5
Efficiency isn't about being quick and easy, it's about being effective quickly and easily. I don't see an inconsistency there really, and if I thought it was efficient I wouldn't be debating here, which is where our opinion differs and yadayada, lulz Yes, but if you're arguing that killing Tara was just the quick and easy way to get Willow to go dark, then I'd say that it's efficient, as it was "effective" in that it did the trick. And "efficiency" is about being quick and easy, since it's a measure of how much useful work gets done relative to the effort put in. If killing Tara was the quickest and easiest way to get Willow to the point the writers wanted to get her, then it was efficient. It may not be something you like, or agree with, since you may have other ideas as to how the season should have played out, but it's efficient. |
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gumgnome
Junior Vampire Slayer
Who has got the button?
Get out of my BRAIN![Mo0:1]
Posts: 970
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Post by gumgnome on Jun 17, 2009 15:41:18 GMT -5
But surely the loss of the character is equivalent in this scenario to the "effort put in". I would argue on this basis that killing Tara is a large loss and hence a large effort, perhaps making this an inefficient way...Cost doesn't just have to be in terms of the time it takes on screen for the transition to occur does it?
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Post by Emmie on Jun 17, 2009 16:14:50 GMT -5
I love how multiple threads now have semantics arguments. Heh, nobody has a reaction to my 'Willow accidentally killing Tara' idea. Too painful?  |
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Mathieu
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,069
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Post by Mathieu on Jun 17, 2009 16:21:57 GMT -5
I love how multiple threads now have semantics arguments. Heh, nobody has a reaction to my 'Willow accidentally killing Tara' idea. Too painful? Love the idea! |
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gumgnome
Junior Vampire Slayer
Who has got the button?
Get out of my BRAIN![Mo0:1]
Posts: 970
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Post by gumgnome on Jun 17, 2009 16:33:55 GMT -5
I love how multiple threads now have semantics arguments. Heh, nobody has a reaction to my 'Willow accidentally killing Tara' idea. Too painful? I think that it would be an excellent way to potentially bring Willow down to earth again in a scenario where she became completely abusive with magic all by herself. I can't imagine her forgiving herself and actually becoming a semblance of her old self again afterwards though, so it would probably end the character... |
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Post by henzINNIT on Jun 17, 2009 16:40:58 GMT -5
I love how multiple threads now have semantics arguments. Heh, nobody has a reaction to my 'Willow accidentally killing Tara' idea. Too painful? It's an interesting idea, and would have been a great parrallel to Warren's situation with killing his ex. How odd would it have been if they faced off with eachother in the woods, both responsible for similar tradegies? |
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Post by wenxina on Jun 17, 2009 17:12:13 GMT -5
Well, gumgnome, one could argue that. Except that henz equated killing Tara to being "lazy". So by that argument, no, killing Tara wasn't a large effort. And hello, all it took was a bullet.
I think the cost of Tara's life doesn't quite fit in this paradigm, because should you decide to argue that Tara's death was costly, then yes, maybe it wasn't the most efficient way to get Willow to go dark, but then neither can it be called "lazy" (though one could argue that is was creatively lazy...). My point was to show that fan reaction to Tara's death isn't necessarily as logical as they like to make it out to be. But I agree with henz that we'll just have to agree that we disagree.
Em: The thing about having Willow be involved in Tara's death is it makes her pretty much irredeemable. I don't think that's the point of S6... it was all about redemption. And as you said... Willow >>>>>>>> Tara. The way the S6 storyline carried out added one more element of addiction that would have been missing from your version: relapse. Willow's vengeance kick was essentially an epic relapse of sorts, resorting to the only thing she knew would make her feel better.
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