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Post by ambersknight on Jun 15, 2009 10:11:07 GMT -5
Exactly! I've mentioned that I think the whole "tara dying/Willow going off the deep end" is a diluted re-hash of previous storyline threads. I will explain why.
1) Tara is hurt and Willow, consumed with rage, uses dark magicks to pursue the person responsible and attempt her version of "justice". Well, this is of course just "Tough Love" again.
2) A loved one of one of the Scoobies is killed by the main villain of the season and that Scooby goes off in an attempt to kill the villain in retribution. Well, this is of course Giles, after Jenny is killed in "Passion".
3) Buffy is placed in a situation of having to defend the lives of innocent people from the wrath of someone she loves. Angelus in season 2, anyone?
4) The tragic death of a loved one under more everyday, rather than supernatural, means forces the Scoobies to grow up. Joyce.
See for me, the original version sof these stories were far more powerful emotionally and far more logical in terms of storyltelling. What we got with Tara was, in my opinion, a limp re-do. No innovation, no attempt at anything really emotionally gripping. Just a mega-mix whitewash of the previous years.
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Mathieu
Ensouled Vampire
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Post by Mathieu on Jun 15, 2009 10:28:27 GMT -5
Exactly! I've mentioned that I think the whole "tara dying/Willow going off the deep end" is a diluted re-hash of previous storyline threads. I will explain why. 1) Tara is hurt and Willow, consumed with rage, uses dark magicks to pursue the person responsible and attempt her version of "justice". Well, this is of course just "Tough Love" again. 2) A loved one of one of the Scoobies is killed by the main villain of the season and that Scooby goes off in an attempt to kill the villain in retribution. Well, this is of course Giles, after Jenny is killed in "Passion". 3) Buffy is placed in a situation of having to defend the lives of innocent people from the wrath of someone she loves. Angelus in season 2, anyone? 4) The tragic death of a loved one under more everyday, rather than supernatural, means forces the Scoobies to grow up. Joyce. See for me, the original version sof these stories were far more powerful emotionally and far more logical in terms of storyltelling. What we got with Tara was, in my opinion, a limp re-do. No innovation, no attempt at anything really emotionally gripping. Just a mega-mix whitewash of the previous years. Well you made an excellent point in favor of Tara's death. It turns out the final arc in season 6 was a mix of all the previous explosive situations we had seen before. All in one. Like a big finale. -> Willow consumed with rage -> Main character killed by the villain, thirst for revenge -> Buffy has to defend people from somebody she deeply cares for -> Tragic death through non-supernatural means When you can have all this at once, why not do it??? Thanks for making an excellent point! ;-) |
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Post by ambersknight on Jun 15, 2009 10:29:58 GMT -5
I wasn't actually agreeing that it was a good thing Matheiu, far from it. I think it shows lazy writing and a lack of creative ability.
Plus, I don't see how serving up lame, watered-down re-hashes of previous seasons is a cause of celebration. So no, it was not a point in your favour, I consider it the biggest nail in the coffin that was season 6. It lacked originality, invention, logic or any kind of genuine emotional weight.
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Post by Midnight Butterfly on Jun 15, 2009 11:09:51 GMT -5
I dont think they killed Tara of just to kill us to be honest.
I have always hated the fact that they killed her off in season six.
I think the main reason they killed it off was to be at least a little realistic. It had gone to long without showing that you can die. They are not invincible and actions have massive consequences.
Season six had a lot of series story lines and was very dark. I think they made a point with season six in showing that kicking demon ass isn't as fun as it looks. Killing Tara was part of making this point. They showed that when things seem perfect it can still always go wrong. One minute everyone is happy and then BANG! all their problems come flying back.
So Im not saying that she should have died because I really liked her. But at the end of the day you cant blame the writers because they kind of did the right thing.
Ofcourse Joyce died in season five but that was proving a completely different point.
A main character should have died like that ages ago but they sort of held it off as long as they could.
They way I look at it is that someone had to die and that it just happened to be Tara.
I definitly dont think the only reason they killed Tara off is so that Willow would go all evil.
I think they were going to kill someone soon and so they decided it would be Tara.
I don't blame the writers for this. I am actually thankful that they finally decided to do it even though I wish it wasn't Tara.
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Post by ambersknight on Jun 15, 2009 11:16:02 GMT -5
Again season 6 is known as the season of growth, of life, people die in life, sadly its in context to the season!
On that point, we will agree to disagree.
Just re-read my post to Buffyfan, I can't quite see the "brash" you are referring to so not sure where the chastisement comes from as its most unnecessary.
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Post by ambersknight on Jun 15, 2009 11:31:50 GMT -5
Not got a cure for death sadly. But it would seem life is painful enough without sadists trying to ply their trade and then expect applause. As I said on another thread I'm not a masochist.
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Mathieu
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,069
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Post by Mathieu on Jun 15, 2009 11:39:57 GMT -5
Not got a cure for death sadly. But it would seem life is painful enough without sadists trying to ply their trade and then expect applause. As I said on another thread I'm not a masochist. Well, I am. A masochist. At least when it comes to tv shows. Hence our disagreement. If you don't wanna be surprised, you can watch the Care Bear movies (that I also watch and love by the way!!). |
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Post by ambersknight on Jun 15, 2009 11:42:31 GMT -5
Oh yes. Black and white arguing. I'm not saying all pain is bad, just that pain for pain's sake, especially when it is done in a dramatically illogical manner (which I know you say otherwise but I'm voicing my opinion), is wrong. If I had a problem with pain and drama period, i wouldn't have said I fully understand previous storylines. its this one that makes no sense to me.
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Post by Midnight Butterfly on Jun 15, 2009 11:50:15 GMT -5
I understand that it may not make sense to you or that you dont like it but it isnt fair to go saying its due to crap writers. I think the writers did an amazing job in season six. season six must have been the hardest season for them to do.
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Post by ambersknight on Jun 15, 2009 11:55:57 GMT -5
Actually, I think it is perfectly acceptable critique to point out where you feel a series succeeded or failed. To take your argument to its logical conclusion you shouldn't be allowed to praise the writers for getting it right either. They put season 6 out there, for better or worse. They should expect critique.
I am all for praising the writers when they get it right IMHO, but that doesn't mean they are above criticism. if that sounds harsh so be it but to say that the writers are above critique is simply wrong. No one is above critique on the show: Not the writers, the actors, the effects people. If we have the right to praise when they get it right we also have the right to criticise when they get it wrong.
Obviously that critique can be challenged 9and has been) but it must be allowed.
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Post by Midnight Butterfly on Jun 15, 2009 11:58:46 GMT -5
Actually, I think it is perfectly acceptable critique to point out where you feel a series succeeded or failed. To take your argument to its logical conclusion you shouldn't be allowed to praise the writers for getting it right either. They put season 6 out there, for better or worse. They should expect critique. Im just saying that I disagree with what you are saying. Im not saying that I am right and you are wrong because we are all right in our own way. All I have to say is that in this entire thread you havn't considered what everybody else has been saying at all. If your mind was so made up about it then why did you start a thread in the first place? |
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Post by ambersknight on Jun 15, 2009 12:00:32 GMT -5
I ahve listened but no one has made a point that I actually agree with. As I haven't made points that others have agreed with. I'm not ehre to change minds or have my mind changed. As far as I'm concerend its not the point of a board like this. its merely to air opinions.
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Post by Midnight Butterfly on Jun 15, 2009 12:06:27 GMT -5
I ahve listened but no one has made a point that I actually agree with. As I haven't made points that others have agreed with. I'm not ehre to change minds or have my mind changed. As far as I'm concerend its not the point of a board like this. its merely to air opinions. Well you should have called it Tara's Death - Do you think it was really necessary? Because from the title it sounds like your not sure and so you want to chat about it. Sorry for being so mean today, I just re-read my last comment and noticed how harsh it sounded. And I agree with some of your points like for a start I think they shouldn't have killed Tara at all. I just understand why they did it. |
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Post by ambersknight on Jun 15, 2009 12:10:52 GMT -5
It's an emotive subject I think. very little of Buffy was what you would call controversial but that storyline certainly was and I'm not sure it was a positive kind of controversy 9as opposed to the Willow/Tara relationship which was controversial to some sections of the public but was a positive one).
But you weren't being harsh, just forceful in your opinions as I am in mine. Its just a real contentious issue. Please don't reproach yourself, you did nothing wrong.
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Post by Midnight Butterfly on Jun 15, 2009 12:16:43 GMT -5
It's an emotive subject I think. very little of Buffy was what you would call controversial but that storyline certainly was and I'm not sure it was a positive kind of controversy 9as opposed to the Willow/Tara relationship which was controversial to some sections of the public but was a positive one). But you weren't being harsh, just forceful in your opinions as I am in mine. Its just a real contentious issue. Please don't reproach yourself, you did nothing wrong. Okay lol. We are both entitled to our own opinions. *hand shake* |
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Post by henzINNIT on Jun 15, 2009 12:49:17 GMT -5
I hate it when people imply that I don't like a poor plot development cause I didn't want to be shocked/lose my favourite character. Any character is expendable if the story requires it; this debate is about how the story maybe didn't need Tara to die to work. She didn't, it was just the easiest and quickest way to get where the writers wanted to go.
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Post by wenxina on Jun 15, 2009 13:03:21 GMT -5
I hate it when people imply that I don't like a poor plot development cause I didn't want to be shocked/lose my favourite character. Any character is expendable if the story requires it; this debate is about how the story maybe didn't need Tara to die to work. She didn't, it was just the easiest and quickest way to get where the writers wanted to go. And by that argument, just about every plot point can be argued as unnecessary, since there's always a different way to do it. |
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Post by buffyfan21 on Jun 15, 2009 14:28:02 GMT -5
Of course I'm assuming that although you started the thread AK, you will allow others to post freely and not reply in such a brash way, buffyfan21 was merely posting a response. Thank you. I think we should keep in mind that this is an open forum where everyone is free to express their own opinions and views. Just saying... |
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Post by henzINNIT on Jun 15, 2009 17:02:10 GMT -5
I hate it when people imply that I don't like a poor plot development cause I didn't want to be shocked/lose my favourite character. Any character is expendable if the story requires it; this debate is about how the story maybe didn't need Tara to die to work. She didn't, it was just the easiest and quickest way to get where the writers wanted to go. And by that argument, just about every plot point can be argued as unnecessary, since there's always a different way to do it. Everything could have been done differently; not many could have been done far more effectively, in my opinion. In a show that makes a big deal out of "earning" events, I'm arguing that killing off Tara - resident demon punch bag - in order to push Willow over the edge wasn't necessary, or in-keeping with the season's theme. |
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Post by wenxina on Jun 15, 2009 18:08:41 GMT -5
Everything could have been done differently; not many could have been done far more effectively, in my opinion. In a show that makes a big deal out of "earning" events, I'm arguing that killing off Tara - resident demon punch bag - in order to push Willow over the edge wasn't necessary, or in-keeping with the season's theme. Efficacy doesn't equal necessity. On that we agree. However, I find it at least mildly biased to argue that other plot points may not have been utterly necessary, but are granted leeway as long as they are efficient, whereas in the case of Tara's death, an efficient plot point is lambasted because it's not utterly necessary. Tara's death was in step with the season's theme, as was the addiction, IMO. However, it's a matter of agreeing on certain basic premises, such as where the line can be drawn between being "drunk on power" and being an "addict". And since we don't agree on those precepts, there's really no point in arguing. |
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