Hellbound Hyperion
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Jul 12, 2009 15:57:58 GMT -5
They always refer to Illyria as "it". "She" slips out because it has taken over Fred's body.
Considering what Illyria looks like in its native form, I highly doubt gender or sex was of any consequence, especially for one of the purest of demons.
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Post by Wyndam on Jul 12, 2009 16:20:15 GMT -5
When Illyria was an Old One, she didn't have a gender. Once it inhabited Fred's body, it was then referred to as a she.
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The Night Lord
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Post by The Night Lord on Jul 13, 2009 5:40:28 GMT -5
I've always thought of Illyria as a 'she', even in the olden days of puny vampires and giant demons. I've never really thought of her as a 'he'. Her being female sounded right with me
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jul 13, 2009 6:14:11 GMT -5
I never thought that that Knox quote could lead people into thinking she was female. Specially since she had all those tentacle-things *wink wink leer*
I used to assume she was a male, since she called herself God-king, but I guess "she" called herself taht because godess-queen doesn't have the same ring to it.
I have no idea how they breed Old Ones, so maybe they're genderless.
However, since I consider men who goes through sex-changes females, even though they were once men, I guess Illyria is now a female, even if she once had a male demon-parts.
That is assuming she still has girly parts... Fred's organs had started to shift before the transformation, hadn't they?
Whatever, I still voted for her in the Most powerful female-thread. Just in case.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Jul 13, 2009 8:21:42 GMT -5
Pretty sure the original Old One Illyria was genderless. I think in the AtF comic when she reverted to her true form, it was mentioned that she was no longer female, but it wasn't said that she was male.
I think the longer she remains in Fred's body, though, the more she'll come to identify as female. I don't expect to see much girly-girl stuff in her future, though.
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jellymoff
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Post by jellymoff on Jul 13, 2009 9:22:05 GMT -5
I have to go with generless as well.
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Post by buffyfan21 on Jul 13, 2009 10:37:03 GMT -5
Hmm, interesting question. Though I have to say I've never given it much thought. I just always thought/assumed she was female. Never really considered what she was before entering into Fred's body...interesting concept though...
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Post by VampSlayer on Jul 13, 2009 15:42:45 GMT -5
When Illyria was an Old One, she didn't have a gender. Once it inhabited Fred's body, it was then referred to as a she. This is the way I see it as well.  |
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Destructo Girl
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Post by Destructo Girl on Jul 13, 2009 16:21:01 GMT -5
I really thought that Illyria's gender really depended on who she was inhabiting. When she's in Fred, she's female (well, I consider her female, don't know if she considers herself that). If she were to be in, let's say, Wesley, then she'd be a he. When she's an Old One, though, I really think she's genderless, because, well, would the Old Ones really define themselves as male or female? But, for now, we don't really know. I like to guess, though.
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Hellbound Hyperion
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Jul 13, 2009 16:45:36 GMT -5
She once described herself as "older than the concept of time" so gender, probably not important. I also doubt any of the Old Ones had normal "breeding" methods, if they bred at all - it was a time of pure warfare and chaos, there wouldn't be much time for that. And they all either died or got driven out of this dimension when humans came along, so there's that too.
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Post by buffyfan21 on Jul 13, 2009 22:33:39 GMT -5
I agree that being a God and all, Illyria was probably genderless, neither man nor woman...
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Post by buffyfan21 on Jul 14, 2009 10:49:04 GMT -5
That's a good question...LOL!
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Jul 14, 2009 10:56:35 GMT -5
Some Gods have genders, and some can probably create whatever body they want. Illyria and the other Old Ones were based on H.P. Lovecraft's Old Ones... Cthulhu, etc... and were intended to be as alien and non-human as possible.
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Post by buffyfan21 on Jul 14, 2009 15:01:02 GMT -5
Yeah. That makes sense. Illyria and Glory have different circumstances/origins. Just as there are many gods, Illyria and Glory are different gods, both rulers over different dimensions, etc.
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Hellbound Hyperion
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Jul 14, 2009 15:17:52 GMT -5
Yeah. That makes sense. Illyria and Glory have different circumstances/origins. Just as there are many gods, Illyria and Glory are different gods, both rulers over different dimensions, etc. Illyria's pure demon, according to the 'verse. Gloria is the one who's actually a god. I imagine Illyria declaring itself a god-king was a bit hyperbolic - gods don't get stuck in sarcophagi and thrown into giant holes.  |
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Just Willow
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Post by Just Willow on Jul 14, 2009 15:20:34 GMT -5
this is what i think:
The true demon Illyria was a male. but now he's inside Fred's body, so he's also a female. therefore: it. it's an it.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Jul 14, 2009 15:27:13 GMT -5
Illyria's pure demon, according to the 'verse. Gloria is the one who's actually a god. I imagine Illyria declaring itself a god-king was a bit hyperbolic - gods don't get stuck in sarcophagi and thrown into giant holes. Well, they shouldn't get smothered by bespectacled Watchers either. I think the difference between Gods, Powers, True Demons, Old Ones, etc. in the Buffyverse is mostly academic. |
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siredbyspike
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Post by siredbyspike on Jul 14, 2009 15:45:56 GMT -5
I definately agree that Illyria was genderless, and only referred to as she when inhabiting Fred. I think the Old Ones are definately supposed to be Lovecraftian Cthulhu types. As for Glory, I always wondered if she was genderless or like the two-faced male/female statue that Ethan has in that one episode.( I believe he calls that god Janus? It has been a long time since I watched it.)
Glory takes over a male body, yet when she turns she is definately into shoes, clothes, and "pretty, girly" things. And everyone calls her a god, not a goddess. So maybe her and Ben are like flip sides of a coin and that's why she needs him so much, not just because he's her human host? Maybe back at "home" she was both male/female and since she came here she had to share and only got one side of the aspect so that is why she goes overboard on the dresses and such. I know she likes to be surrounded by nice things though-so I could be completely wrong about this. This has always been something I've wondered about.
I've also always wondered what it would be like for Glory and Illyria to meet and have a conversation. I think that would be hilarious on so many levels. I wonder if they would get along or hate each other though. I'm betting they would hate each other and each brag about how great they were, trying to one-up the other.
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jul 14, 2009 16:06:39 GMT -5
Illyria's pure demon, according to the 'verse. Gloria is the one who's actually a god. I imagine Illyria declaring itself a god-king was a bit hyperbolic - gods don't get stuck in sarcophagi and thrown into giant holes. I don't know, Glory got banned and had to share a body with a human. And Gods in different mythology aren't always all that. Today at 3:45pm, siredbyspike wrote: That is brilliant. If that's true, no wonder she's crazy, she's literally "only half there". *karma* |
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Hellbound Hyperion
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Jul 14, 2009 16:46:50 GMT -5
Aye, and Janus is a Roman god; he's the god of gates, doorways, beginnings and endings.
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