spurtyknowledge
Rogue Demon Hunter
I'm wired to the world.
"She told them that the only grace they could have was the grace they could imagine."[Mo0:25]
Posts: 411
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Post by spurtyknowledge on Jul 18, 2009 18:49:10 GMT -5
SPIN OFF SHOW!!! ) Though I'd love this story to continue, I'm quite sure Joss already has some intricate plan of bringing both continuities together gradually like he's begun to do with Buffy and Fray. As I mentioned before, I believe Epitaph One will be the groundwork for the Dollhouse series finale, which I truly hope we won't be seeing any time soon.  |
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antoniofjm
Novice Witch
"I'm Not Strong Enough"[Mo0:0]
Posts: 271
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Post by antoniofjm on Jul 18, 2009 19:33:36 GMT -5
I hope every season from now on gets a new special DVD ep like for S2 we could get Epitaph Two?
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Post by VampSlayer on Jul 18, 2009 22:12:23 GMT -5
Wow...
This episode was just... wow. My brain is jumping right now! I'm still in awe!
Claire/Boyd FTW! The scene with them was so sad! I wonder what happened to him...
And did Caroline kill Adelle? I was a bit lost at the end of that flash back.
It was also so cool to see that Caroline was still there in her body when she was imprinted.
The Topher/Adelle scene was also a heart breaker.
And Claire... I wonder if the made her forget she was a doll... You know, before she went into her doll state.
Wow... ;D |
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Post by hitnrun017 on Jul 18, 2009 22:28:02 GMT -5
Just a note: If you want to discuss spoilers, please put them in the spoiler code until the DVD is released.  |
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Post by VampSlayer on Jul 18, 2009 22:42:34 GMT -5
Ahh, Im sorry! I was so in thought I forgot to add the spoiler button!  |
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Whedon Fan
Ensouled Vampire
Joss Is Boss
Banner & Avatar Made By CBG[Mo0:3][Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,312
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Post by Whedon Fan on Jul 19, 2009 6:23:46 GMT -5
~#~SPOILERS AHEAD DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO THE TAGS ~#~ I have a TON of questions. Very good episode, interesting definitely dark. I hope we don't see this for a while though. This felt like it could be the foundation for Dollhouse season three. Okay so: Why did Whiskey stay in the Dollhouse? So the Dollhouse got out of control and people were imprinting everyone, everywhere? Did the Dollhouse get broken into and those that were not imprinted fought them off, was there a war?? Boyd and Claire relationship. Brilliant. Why was Boyd running away, what did he do? Resume corporation trying to take him down, why didn't Claire go with him Caroline was still herself after she was imprinted, so she had a duo personality when imprinted. Why was she pretending. Were she and Paul planning on brining down the Dollhouse? How come Topeher was all crazy. The pressure and guilt of the fact that this is all more or less his fault? What happened to November, she was mentioned. Did she get over imprinted and die? What was with the scene with Adelle, Topher and that man in Victors body. What actually happened? What were Paul and Caroline doing whilst they were away from he Dollhouse all that time. The scene when they come back and Caroline says "Home sweet Home"? How come Dominic came back from the attic? Why was he brought back and by who? Were Adelle and Topeher together or were they just two friends in a big struggle. Where was Alpha, he was mentioned but is he to blame for any of the things that have happened? How was Claire's scars gone. Probably to save money on the make up in real life but how did they heal her on the show. Wonder if we'll be given an explanation? Did Caroline kill Adelle? I seriously doubt it. It was left open to make us think that but I bet Paul or Topher or someone would have stepped in her way and gave a "don't do this, we need her" speech. But we know that they defiantly don't like each other? Will we ever find out why Caroline went to the Dollhouse? Season 2 hopefully? In the aired pilot Adelle said that she was after Caroline for some time, why? What was happening with Victor and Sierra. Were they together and then for some reason broke up. Where were they going? Why did everyone seem to be on the run why not try and fight it, is that what Topeher was talking about when he said about imprinting an army? Over all a very nice teasing episode. Defiantly not a season one episode. When I was watching it I felt like it was wrong. As if I had just ruined the show for me. I know what is going to happen now and who will live and who will die. I feel like I have stepped into Joss's mind or living room and sneakily watched an episode I should not have watched. It's like watching Buffy season 5 before watching the first season. You know that Buffy will die a few times and be brought back, you know Buffy will get a sister, Spike will become good-ish. Angel will become evil and leave etc. . . Can't wait for season 2 now very interested to see how we will get from the season 1 finale to epitaph one. Wonder how long it will take. A season or two or will this all be in season 2 at some point?   |
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theend
Potential Slayer
Dollhouse DollFreakinHouse[Mo0:0]
Posts: 137
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Post by theend on Jul 19, 2009 8:22:47 GMT -5
I don't know if I liked it yet. I liked it as a standalone ep, but in terms of being a Dollhouse ep I don't know if it works.
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Post by VampSlayer on Jul 19, 2009 11:48:59 GMT -5
~#~SPOILERS AHEAD DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO THE TAGS ~#~ I have a TON of questions. Very good episode, interesting definitely dark. I hope we don't see this for a while though. This felt like it could be the foundation for Dollhouse season three. Okay so: Why did Whiskey stay in the Dollhouse? So the Dollhouse got out of control and people were imprinting everyone, everywhere? Did the Dollhouse get broken into and those that were not imprinted fought them off, was there a war?? Boyd and Claire relationship. Brilliant. Why was Boyd running away, what did he do? Resume corporation trying to take him down, why didn't Claire go with him Caroline was still herself after she was imprinted, so she had a duo personality when imprinted. Why was she pretending. Were she and Paul planning on brining down the Dollhouse? How come Topeher was all crazy. The pressure and guilt of the fact that this is all more or less his fault? What happened to November, she was mentioned. Did she get over imprinted and die? What was with the scene with Adelle, Topher and that man in Victors body. What actually happened? What were Paul and Caroline doing whilst they were away from he Dollhouse all that time. The scene when they come back and Caroline says "Home sweet Home"? How come Dominic came back from the attic? Why was he brought back and by who? Were Adelle and Topeher together or were they just two friends in a big struggle. Where was Alpha, he was mentioned but is he to blame for any of the things that have happened? How was Claire's scars gone. Probably to save money on the make up in real life but how did they heal her on the show. Wonder if we'll be given an explanation? Did Caroline kill Adelle? I seriously doubt it. It was left open to make us think that but I bet Paul or Topher or someone would have stepped in her way and gave a "don't do this, we need her" speech. But we know that they defiantly don't like each other? Will we ever find out why Caroline went to the Dollhouse? Season 2 hopefully? In the aired pilot Adelle said that she was after Caroline for some time, why? What was happening with Victor and Sierra. Were they together and then for some reason broke up. Where were they going? Why did everyone seem to be on the run why not try and fight it, is that what Topeher was talking about when he said about imprinting an army? Over all a very nice teasing episode. Defiantly not a season one episode. When I was watching it I felt like it was wrong. As if I had just ruined the show for me. I know what is going to happen now and who will live and who will die. I feel like I have stepped into Joss's mind or living room and sneakily watched an episode I should not have watched. It's like watching Buffy season 5 before watching the first season. You know that Buffy will die a few times and be brought back, you know Buffy will get a sister, Spike will become good-ish. Angel will become evil and leave etc. . . Can't wait for season 2 now very interested to see how we will get from the season 1 finale to epitaph one. Wonder how long it will take. A season or two or will this all be in season 2 at some point? Claire staid in the dollhouse, because she thought it was better than traveling outside. Caroline said this at least.
I don't think it was the November we knew, because 'Sierra' said 'What November?', as in what one. So there must be a new November active.
The scene with the man in Victor's body was Mister (Something). He was telling all of the Dollhouse's that they were going to let clients trasfer their own minds into their actives. And that it would be made legal within a year. Adelle thought it was a wrong thing to do.
I think Adelle and Topher are just friends.
Claire's scars were fixed by the dollhouse. Caroline stated so when being stitched up be her.
Topher, I think, saying what happened. Why everyone was fighting. I'm pretty sure the dollhouse mind whipe ways were learned by others, and they sent the wave through phones. Like in Grey Hour. And the people who answered the phone where turned into a person meant to fight, and kill, people not turned like them. Hope I helped answer a few questions! |
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Post by wytchcroft on Jul 19, 2009 19:00:13 GMT -5
I don't know if I liked it yet. I liked it as a standalone ep, but in terms of being a Dollhouse ep I don't know if it works. Why so? It makes sense of the environmental architecture that Alpha talks about in Briar Rose and it adds a whole new layer to the True Believer episode. Whedon Fan and VampSlayer - those were really interesting posts! |
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theend
Potential Slayer
Dollhouse DollFreakinHouse[Mo0:0]
Posts: 137
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Post by theend on Jul 20, 2009 5:09:35 GMT -5
I don't know if I liked it yet. I liked it as a standalone ep, but in terms of being a Dollhouse ep I don't know if it works. Why so? It makes sense of the environmental architecture that Alpha talks about in Briar Rose and it adds a whole new layer to the True Believer episode. Whedon Fan and VampSlayer - those were really interesting posts! I don't like the idea that we already know what happens in the future, now when I watch the new series I'm always going to be looking out for things that fit in with this ep. |
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gumgnome
Junior Vampire Slayer
Who has got the button?
Get out of my BRAIN![Mo0:1]
Posts: 970
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Post by gumgnome on Jul 20, 2009 7:12:39 GMT -5
I thought that this was by far the best episode of Dollhouse so far. It gives me great hope for a series that I thought flagged badly in Season 1. Frankly I hope they move towards this kind of story line reasonably fast. There was so much more to be interested in here than what came before!
I doubt I'm gonna get much love for this, but one thing that did irk with me was Felicia Day's performance. I thought it was flat and uninspiring. Amy Acker, on the other hand, was freakin' sweet!
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Post by lightandmagic on Jul 20, 2009 11:45:41 GMT -5
~#~SPOILERS AHEAD DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO THE TAGS ~#~ I have a TON of questions. Very good episode, interesting definitely dark. I hope we don't see this for a while though. This felt like it could be the foundation for Dollhouse season three. Okay so: Why did Whiskey stay in the Dollhouse? So the Dollhouse got out of control and people were imprinting everyone, everywhere? Did the Dollhouse get broken into and those that were not imprinted fought them off, was there a war?? Boyd and Claire relationship. Brilliant. Why was Boyd running away, what did he do? Resume corporation trying to take him down, why didn't Claire go with him Caroline was still herself after she was imprinted, so she had a duo personality when imprinted. Why was she pretending. Were she and Paul planning on brining down the Dollhouse? How come Topeher was all crazy. The pressure and guilt of the fact that this is all more or less his fault? What happened to November, she was mentioned. Did she get over imprinted and die? What was with the scene with Adelle, Topher and that man in Victors body. What actually happened? What were Paul and Caroline doing whilst they were away from he Dollhouse all that time. The scene when they come back and Caroline says "Home sweet Home"? How come Dominic came back from the attic? Why was he brought back and by who? Were Adelle and Topeher together or were they just two friends in a big struggle. Where was Alpha, he was mentioned but is he to blame for any of the things that have happened? How was Claire's scars gone. Probably to save money on the make up in real life but how did they heal her on the show. Wonder if we'll be given an explanation? Did Caroline kill Adelle? I seriously doubt it. It was left open to make us think that but I bet Paul or Topher or someone would have stepped in her way and gave a "don't do this, we need her" speech. But we know that they defiantly don't like each other? Will we ever find out why Caroline went to the Dollhouse? Season 2 hopefully? In the aired pilot Adelle said that she was after Caroline for some time, why? What was happening with Victor and Sierra. Were they together and then for some reason broke up. Where were they going? Why did everyone seem to be on the run why not try and fight it, is that what Topeher was talking about when he said about imprinting an army? Over all a very nice teasing episode. Defiantly not a season one episode. When I was watching it I felt like it was wrong. As if I had just ruined the show for me. I know what is going to happen now and who will live and who will die. I feel like I have stepped into Joss's mind or living room and sneakily watched an episode I should not have watched. It's like watching Buffy season 5 before watching the first season. You know that Buffy will die a few times and be brought back, you know Buffy will get a sister, Spike will become good-ish. Angel will become evil and leave etc. . . Can't wait for season 2 now very interested to see how we will get from the season 1 finale to epitaph one. Wonder how long it will take. A season or two or will this all be in season 2 at some point? Wow, first of all amazing episode! It was just... wow. I definitely need to watch it again so I can get everything.
As for your questions Whedon Fan, I think I can answer a couple of them by summarizing what essentially happened:
Essentially, at some point in time, a mass telephone call was made to every person in at least Los Angeles, perhaps it may have been worldwide or strictly in California or the United States. It was probably worldwide, as that is what the show was seeming to imply. Anyone who picked up this call was instantly mind-wiped and then programmed (ala what happened to Echo in Gray Hour) to kill all those people who were not programmed. These people who were programmed became butchers, as seen at the end of the episode (Reavers reference anyone? C'mon).
Anyone that hasn't turned also now has to avoid tech, or anything that has a basic global connection as they could be turned as well. That's why the guy shoots the radio, and they're afraid of all technology as they want to stay themselves.
It's revealed later that this mass programming through telephone is somewhat Topher's fault, he was the one who thought of the idea and has clearly gone a bit insane from the guilt of it all.
Before this happened it's clear that Caroline is self-aware and is aiding Paul in trying to bring down the Dollhouse, and probably even the Rossum Corporation knowing Caroline.
Now, somehow, Caroline has found a cure to the programming, so says Adelle. Whether this means turning people back into their original self, or just merely blocking it from turning people I'm not quite sure. It also doesn't mention when or how she obtained it, did she get it while still an Active but was self-aware, or after the apocalypse began? I believe it was after considering her and Paul are out of the Dollhouse and trying to find something, and by the time they have returned they have managed to find a "Safe Haven" where you can live as yourself and not be turned into a Doll/Butcher.
In the fear that she may die, and also afraid that she can't trust people, she gets Claire to make a copy of her on the disk things. She then entrusts Claire with the duty to stay in the Dollhouse and imprint people with her personality so that she can lead the survivors to Safe Haven. I'm assuming Claire was entrusted because she was afraid of the world above and refused to leave the Dollhouse.
Now we come to the point of why this all happened. I think this apocalypse was planned, ala Titan Shrugged (a book). When Mr. Ambrose (I think that was his name) comes to visit the elite and wealthy have installed themselves into Actives bodies and are building a "Noah's Ark." I believe he was essentially saying, we are bringing the end of the world, we know where we are safe and how to escape from it, come with us and abandon the world and Actives or stay here and try to survive. I find it really amusing that he chooses the term Noah's Ark, cause these people are clearly playing God.
So why did this all happen? I'm assuming cause they believe the world is a mess, and they plan to start anew. Only the most wealthy will be able to survive this and start humanity anew elsewhere.
Wow. What an amazing episode.
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Post by VampSlayer on Jul 20, 2009 16:22:36 GMT -5
I thought that this was by far the best episode of Dollhouse so far. It gives me great hope for a series that I thought flagged badly in Season 1. Frankly I hope they move towards this kind of story line reasonably fast. There was so much more to be interested in here than what came before! I doubt I'm gonna get much love for this, but one thing that did irk with me was Felicia Day's performance. I thought it was flat and uninspiring. Amy Acker, on the other hand, was freakin' sweet! I agree that Felicia's acting was... okay. Not the best, but pretty good. |
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spurtyknowledge
Rogue Demon Hunter
I'm wired to the world.
"She told them that the only grace they could have was the grace they could imagine."[Mo0:25]
Posts: 411
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Post by spurtyknowledge on Jul 20, 2009 16:46:06 GMT -5
The song that Maurissa Tancharoen and Jed Whedon composed for Epitaph One is now available for download at Amazon (soon to be on iTunes as well) and is called "Remains." Click here to download "Remains" from Amazon I've had it on my head for the last couple of hours. It's very beautifully performed and perfectly fits the episode and the series. Would love to see this on an official Dollhouse soundtrack release someday. |
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Post by Emmie on Jul 20, 2009 19:12:05 GMT -5
I didn't realize til later that they'd created that song. Damn, it deserves recognition because it's hauntingly beautiful and so perfect for the episode.
SlayAlivers - everyone please use Spoiler tags. I've had to edit three posts in this page alone. Here is the code:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
And yes, this also means when you quote someone else's spoilers. Thank you and carry on!
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Just Willow
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Look to the Western Sky
[Mo0:22]
Posts: 2,575
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Post by Just Willow on Jul 21, 2009 16:22:03 GMT -5
i've only watched half of it online. teh stupid video cuts off at the worst part EVER. how are you guys seeign the whole thing? is the DVD already released where you guys are?
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Post by faithswatcher on Jul 21, 2009 16:51:29 GMT -5
Just what I thought of it...I want to get in on some discussion I understand completely why Fox didn't show it, although the ending kind of came together (a bit, theres still loads of questions!!) I feel like it was an extended trailer for whats to come. Not until the end of the episode did i reconnect with the characters, it was jumping back and forth and I felt it more like a puzzle than an 'episode'. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed and I am incredibly looking forward to whats to come, but I can't help but feel like Joss has sold out a bit with Dollhouse. What do i mean? The fractured story telling of the popular 'Lost' or the showing the audience of whats to come 'Heroes' or the freaky science of 'Fringe'. Its just not like the classic Joss stuff I love. It feels like a stuck on episode to show Fox and the non Joss fans that he can be cool and hip like JJ Abrahms too. |
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Nicholas
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
One Good Scare
Tonight I'm Dancing.[Mo0:16]
Posts: 656
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Post by Nicholas on Jul 21, 2009 20:28:37 GMT -5
I cant wait to see this episode. Where is everyone watching it?
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spurtyknowledge
Rogue Demon Hunter
I'm wired to the world.
"She told them that the only grace they could have was the grace they could imagine."[Mo0:25]
Posts: 411
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Post by spurtyknowledge on Jul 21, 2009 20:40:15 GMT -5
It leaked online Sunday, Nicholas. I would advise anyone who hasn't yet watched it to wait, since the DVD will be out next Tuesday. If you absolutely feel the need to download it, buy the DVD and the episode's theme song "Remains" by Maurissa Tancharoen and Jed Whedon.
Personally, I couldn't help myself that Sunday, but I'm still quite excited to see it on my TV. DEFINITELY recommend buying "Remains" as well.
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jellymoff
Ensouled Vampire
Claimer of Funn[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,174
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Post by jellymoff on Jul 22, 2009 0:20:10 GMT -5
Just what I thought of it...I want to get in on some discussion I understand completely why Fox didn't show it, although the ending kind of came together (a bit, theres still loads of questions!!) I feel like it was an extended trailer for whats to come. Not until the end of the episode did i reconnect with the characters, it was jumping back and forth and I felt it more like a puzzle than an 'episode'. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed and I am incredibly looking forward to whats to come, but I can't help but feel like Joss has sold out a bit with Dollhouse. What do i mean? The fractured story telling of the popular 'Lost' or the showing the audience of whats to come 'Heroes' or the freaky science of 'Fringe'. Its just not like the classic Joss stuff I love. It feels like a stuck on episode to show Fox and the non Joss fans that he can be cool and hip like JJ Abrahms too. I have to disagree. The fractured story telling isn't used any more than on Buffy or Angel, in my opinion. Epitaph One is the really the only ep that skips around time-wise. Flashbacks have been a Joss device before, and he uses them well in my opinion. I don't think Joss is trying to be hip like JJ Abrahms. Epitaph one isn't even going to air, and it was made with the intention that it would go straight to video. |
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