weredog
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Post by weredog on Jul 31, 2009 17:21:40 GMT -5
I just recently watched "Epitaph One". Although I do prefer the cinematography in this episode to the other episodes of the first season, the plot was absolutely confusing. I... I just don't get it. It felt like I was watching a series' seventh season finale after only having watched the first. I mean this with all due respect: what was this episode about? Are they going to reveal these flash forwards in the next season? If so, are they going to expand the contexts of those scenes? Oh, boy, I am sadly disappointed...  I just had to respond to this quote...you do realize THAT WAS THE POINT, right? To explain what was happening in the future enough but not too much in order to keep the viewer interested in the show. Anyway, my thoughts. I just finished watching it. One word: incredible. From the acting, to the storytelling, to the filming, to the flashbacks. Excellence. Pure excellence. This is the one episode of Dollhouse I can safely say that would make me recommend the show to someone. I always had an "eh" feeling in the back of my mind when watching Dollhouse, but if the show soon turns into this (and by soon I mean like Season Three) I would sure be recommending it to everyone I knew. I have to say, it was sorta weird, because I was watching it...I almost felt like I was being spoiled. Like I shouldn't know this is what happens in the future...but I guess, if Joss doesn't have a plan, he wouldn't have shown so much of the future of the Dollhouse series in one episode...he wouldn't have even written it down. Perhaps I'm mixed feeling-y about it because it's not Joss' most conventional way of presenting his stories. He delivers a linear story with boatloads of questions before reaching its climax. "Epitaph One" felt like it was backwards. Or rather, it felt like the middle... See, I'm confused while explaining why I'm confused!  I find it strange that Joss decided to take this "Lost"-like route. ("Lost"-like route being a story where the characters are in a surreal situation before/while explaining how and why they got there in the first place). I find it strange because Joss has often teased that particular series as mediocre television (though, perhaps not for this reason). And I totally understand your sense of being spoiled when watching this episode. I too felt that. Like I said, it was like watching an episode before watching the development beforehand. For instance, Boyd and Saunder's declaration of love was not a complete surprise to me; I did see sparks in "Needs" and was hoping there would be a nice development. While watching "Epitaph One", that scene felt like it was spoiling me. I wanted to know how they got there before they got there. I think that's why I feel disappointed about it.... |
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Post by Tyler Austin "tiewashere" on Jul 31, 2009 20:30:51 GMT -5
Okay, so. I just re-watched this episode (loved it just as much). I have to say I am a tad nervous as to how Season Two will play out. Will it be interesting with us knowing what will happen in the future? Will we care to see the "assignment of the week" episodes anymore?
I just don't know.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Aug 1, 2009 10:37:58 GMT -5
oooh, my sister just watched it for the first time and we think we figured something out. you know how Whiskey doesn't come with them cause she says she 'has to wait'. we were trying to figure out who she would be waiting for, and then my sister said Boyd! cause in the flashback with him he said 'I will come for you' and so she's waiting for him!!!! That's an interesting idea. Of course, she was in her Claire persona when Boyd said that to her, and her "blank slate" state when she said she had to wait. Normally she wouldn't remember what Boyd had told her... however, as Echo demonstrated, it's possible for dolls to retain some memories from other imprints. The face-value interpretation, of course, is that she had to wait so she could flood the Dollhouse with gas at the right moment and save it from being taken over by the Reavers imprinted killers. I'm not happy with whoever left poor Whiskey behind to perform that task. Seems like something that could have been done through automation. It appears Boyd never came back for her. I wonder why not, and I wonder how Whiskey lost her Claire imprint, and I wonder why she was left behind. Her own choice? The part of this episode that interested me the most was when Echo was imprinted with the Russian girl's persona, and then in the elevator with Paul revealed that she could keep her Caroline personality active and dominant even while imprinted. It appeared that Topher (and probably Adelle) weren't aware she could do this. This was exactly the direction I was hoping they'd go in... she's always (secretly) Caroline, but she can use each week's imprint as a sort of temporary "super-power" to do what she needs to do. And maybe she can pick bits and pieces from her previous imprints when needed, too? |
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Joe
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Obsessive Paranoid Boob
"Gypsies are filthy people! We shall speak of zem no more!" *spits* -Ilona Costa Bianchi[Mo0:0]
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Post by Joe on Aug 1, 2009 11:43:55 GMT -5
The part of this episode that interested me the most was when Echo was imprinted with the Russian girl's persona, and then in the elevator with Paul revealed that she could keep her Caroline personality active and dominant even while imprinted. It appeared that Topher (and probably Adelle) weren't aware she could do this. This was exactly the direction I was hoping they'd go in... she's always (secretly) Caroline, but she can use each week's imprint as a sort of temporary "super-power" to do what she needs to do. And maybe she can pick bits and pieces from her previous imprints when needed, too? This made me happy too. I hope season 2 starts right off with this. Maybe the reason Caroline can retain herself in her engagements is because of her composite event in "Omega". We did, however, see her say Caroline in the last scene. |
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Just Willow
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Post by Just Willow on Aug 1, 2009 12:03:26 GMT -5
oooh, my sister just watched it for the first time and we think we figured something out. you know how Whiskey doesn't come with them cause she says she 'has to wait'. we were trying to figure out who she would be waiting for, and then my sister said Boyd! cause in the flashback with him he said 'I will come for you' and so she's waiting for him!!!! That's an interesting idea. Of course, she was in her Claire persona when Boyd said that to her, and her "blank slate" state when she said she had to wait. Normally she wouldn't remember what Boyd had told her... however, as Echo demonstrated, it's possible for dolls to retain some memories from other imprints. The face-value interpretation, of course, is that she had to wait so she could flood the Dollhouse with gas at the right moment and save it from being taken over by the Reavers imprinted killers. I'm not happy with whoever left poor Whiskey behind to perform that task. Seems like something that could have been done through automation. It appears Boyd never came back for her. I wonder why not, and I wonder how Whiskey lost her Claire imprint, and I wonder why she was left behind. Her own choice? Yeah. it was weird, though, because i automatically assumed that teh gas would jus tkill everyone, including her, but then Jed on the commentary said that they didn't know what it did. Maybe it was, like, sleeping gas or something, and she would simply clean up the whole Dollhouse and rid it of the bodies and continue to wait (for Boyd, i assume) |
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Aug 1, 2009 15:22:11 GMT -5
Yeah. it was weird, though, because i automatically assumed that teh gas would jus tkill everyone, including her, but then Jed on the commentary said that they didn't know what it did. Maybe it was, like, sleeping gas or something, and she would simply clean up the whole Dollhouse and rid it of the bodies and continue to wait (for Boyd, i assume) That would be nice, but it wouldn't really work... when the gas wears off, the invaders would wake up at the same time as Whiskey, and they'd be back in the same situation as before. It's also possible the gas has the effect of "de-programming" people who have been imprinted. That would be fine for Whiskey, since she'd just wake up in the same state she was in before... but all the invaders would be reverted to blanks... "dumbshows" as they're referred to here. (The really terrifying thing about this wireless remote imprinting business is there's no reversing it... when a person is imprinted in this way their original personality is not saved anywhere... it's just overwritten and gone forever. In Whiskey's case, though, her original self is presumably still stored somewhere.) |
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alycat7
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
I don't wanna be this good looking and athletic. We all have crosses to bear - Spike[Mo0:4]
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Post by alycat7 on Aug 1, 2009 16:42:40 GMT -5
This episode was fantastic. I never would've imagined that this is a possible direction the show could take.
I'm happy that Echo apparantly doesn't stay in her tabula rasa state for the whole series. I don't think that Echo has managed to secretly become Caroline again, I just think that she has managed to make her default state be "Omega" as Alpha calls her.
Another thing I really like, is that unlike Joss' other shows, it doesn't appear as if anyone in the main cast will be suddenly and brutally killed any time soon. I know that nothing in Epitaph One is set in stone, and things might change but it seems to me that mostly everyone will be around for awhile. Although,I do believe that the reason Boyd didn't return for Whiskey is because he was killed.
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Joe
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Obsessive Paranoid Boob
"Gypsies are filthy people! We shall speak of zem no more!" *spits* -Ilona Costa Bianchi[Mo0:0]
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Post by Joe on Aug 1, 2009 16:56:27 GMT -5
Another thing I really like, is that unlike Joss' other shows, it doesn't appear as if anyone in the main cast will be suddenly and brutally killed any time soon. I know that nothing in Epitaph One is set in stone, and things might change but it seems to me that mostly everyone will be around for awhile. Although,I do believe that the reason Boyd didn't return for Whiskey is because he was killed. Very true. Although, we still can have November die anytime Joss sees fit. She wasn't in the episode. As you've already said, Boyd can also die anytime after he leaves Claire in that scene. As for the others, it all depends what year the scene with Paul and Caroline breaking in takes place. It's very possible that that scene could take place in this show's potential fourth or fifth season. After that, anyone can die. Except Whiskey, I suppose, because we see her in 2019! |
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alycat7
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
I don't wanna be this good looking and athletic. We all have crosses to bear - Spike[Mo0:4]
Posts: 752
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Post by alycat7 on Aug 1, 2009 17:06:19 GMT -5
Another thing I really like, is that unlike Joss' other shows, it doesn't appear as if anyone in the main cast will be suddenly and brutally killed any time soon. I know that nothing in Epitaph One is set in stone, and things might change but it seems to me that mostly everyone will be around for awhile. Although,I do believe that the reason Boyd didn't return for Whiskey is because he was killed. Very true. Although, we still can have November die anytime Joss sees fit. She wasn't in the episode. As you've already said, Boyd can also die anytime after he leaves Claire in that scene. As for the others, it all depends what year the scene with Paul and Caroline breaking in takes place. It's very possible that that scene could take place in this show's potential fourth or fifth season. After that, anyone can die. Except Whiskey, I suppose, because we see her in 2019! This is actually very comforting to me. When it comes to Joss' shows, I've built a sense of detachment to most of the characters, knowing that this week might be their last. And now i don't have to fear that much for the life of my favorite characters. |
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Post by hitnrun017 on Aug 1, 2009 17:09:55 GMT -5
Sierra/Priya is also questionable. After her one scene with Victor we never see her in the Dollhouse again, Laurence too. And of course we don't know what Caroline will do to Adelle (and Topher?). Ah, this is so exciting. Didn't somebody say something like, "You don't want to end up like November" and then someone asked "Which November"? Madeline was released from her contract, or so it seems, but her picture is on the memory wall thing. So many questions. Want Season 2!
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TC
Novice Witch
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When I was like, 10...[Mo0:37]
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Post by TC on Aug 1, 2009 17:17:18 GMT -5
Sierra/Priya is also questionable. After her one scene with Victor we never see her in the Dollhouse again. In the commentary Jed suggested that she went above ground, and that's how the tattoo thing became widespread among actuals. |
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Post by hitnrun017 on Aug 1, 2009 17:20:25 GMT -5
Sierra/Priya is also questionable. After her one scene with Victor we never see her in the Dollhouse again. In the commentary Jed suggested that she went above ground, and that's how the widespread tattoo thing started. Yeah, but we don't know happened to her after she went up. How would she know how to get to "Safe Haven" if she wasn't in the Dollhouse when Caroline and Paul came back? |
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Post by Wyndam on Aug 1, 2009 19:08:45 GMT -5
The only characters whose fates are really in question, that we may see happen during the show, if it continues, are Boyd and November. We know that Sierra lasts until the Apocalypse, so I'd guess at least until 2017. So if the show does continue, Boyd and November are really the only characters in question. I know we don't know what happened to anyone else either, but they all lasted well after the Apocalypse. Boyd and November are the only characters with shots at not lasting during the shows run, or pre-Apocalypse.
If there is an "Epitaph Two" at the end of Season 2, it will most likely show what happens to Caroline, Mac and that other guy after they leave the Dollhouse, with flashbacks revealing more about what happened to each character.
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Post by hitnrun017 on Aug 1, 2009 20:55:16 GMT -5
Do we know exactly when the Apocalypse happens though? If they said 2017 then I missed it. For all we know it could be in two years.
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Post by Wyndam on Aug 1, 2009 22:24:47 GMT -5
No, that's just me guessing. I really doubt that there has been more than 3 years since the Apocalypse though.
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Insanity's Curse
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Post by Insanity's Curse on Aug 6, 2009 20:51:40 GMT -5
Topher did just break my heart in that episode...it's Brokeback Mountain all over again
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Post by iamthewalrus on Aug 7, 2009 7:52:03 GMT -5
oh man, i love the idea of seeing them surviving the apocalypse caused by the dollhouse rather than assignments of the week
i hope season 2 continues more like this
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Post by wytchcroft on Aug 8, 2009 12:07:59 GMT -5
Another thing I really like, is that unlike Joss' other shows, it doesn't appear as if anyone in the main cast will be suddenly and brutally killed any time soon. I know that nothing in Epitaph One is set in stone, and things might change but it seems to me that mostly everyone will be around for awhile. Although,I do believe that the reason Boyd didn't return for Whiskey is because he was killed. Very true. Although, we still can have November die anytime Joss sees fit. She wasn't in the episode. As you've already said, Boyd can also die anytime after he leaves Claire in that scene. As for the others, it all depends what year the scene with Paul and Caroline breaking in takes place. It's very possible that that scene could take place in this show's potential fourth or fifth season. After that, anyone can die. Except Whiskey, I suppose, because we see her in 2019! but we can't be sure of who's been making out with Printy can we...  what i'm waiting on in season 2 is us folks going; *wide eyes* "wow this new guest star/character rocks - but they weren't mentioned in Epitaph one... AAAAAAAAAAA theyre gonna diiiiie!!! Joss you fiend in human form!!!" etc LOL! i know that'll likely be my reaction - i get suckered real easy. |
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D'Hoffryn
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Post by D'Hoffryn on Aug 8, 2009 16:08:03 GMT -5
hi
as i have never seen dollhouse but will be getting the R2 dvd set in september, should i watch the show like it aired or start with the unaired epitaph one episode.
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Post by hitnrun017 on Aug 8, 2009 16:20:12 GMT -5
hi as i have never seen dollhouse but will be getting the R2 dvd set in september, should i watch the show like it aired or start with the unaired epitaph one episode. Definitely watch it like it aired and then watch Epitaph One. There is a bunch of information in Epitaph One that wouldn't make any sense unless you've seen all the other episodes first:) |
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