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Post by Emmie on Mar 20, 2008 14:07:13 GMT -5
"not expected" was something that Robin told *Buffy*, not *us*. We might "expect" Giles to betray Buffy, but that doesn't mean that Buffy does. Imo I don't think Buffy would be surprised if Giles did betray her. Giles has a history of doing what he thinks is best, and loyalty to Buffy only goes so far. Besides, I think Buffy has had it driven home over the years that trusting/depending on Giles comes with a price - the Cruciamentium, his pushing to kill Dawn in order to stop Glory, his leaving SunnyD in season 6 after she confessed she was in heaven, his manipulative plot to kill Spike. Besides the fact that they've drifted apart ALOT in the past couple years...he just doesn't qualify as the "closest" in my mind, though, so i don't think its him.
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postitnote
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
Dr. Erin
Willow Rox my Sox Off!
Posts: 639
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Post by postitnote on Mar 20, 2008 18:38:00 GMT -5
I personally...think it's...Mr. Gordo. He's really an decepticon, bent on destroying the world by killing Buffy...now, that is the closest thing to Buffy and would be the most unexpected. LOL.
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kershmuckit
Potential Slayer
The sound you get when you play golf with pudding
Posts: 135
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Post by kershmuckit on Mar 20, 2008 21:08:20 GMT -5
I personally...think it's...Mr. Gordo. He's really an decepticon, bent on destroying the world by killing Buffy...now, that is the closest thing to Buffy and would be the most unexpected. LOL. www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gnfjAJaS_Q ;D
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Post by xmadxscientistx on Mar 20, 2008 21:40:36 GMT -5
Thanks for the vid, Kershmuckit! Hilarious!
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Post by xmadxscientistx on Mar 20, 2008 21:43:15 GMT -5
I think a lot of issue 10 is very suggestive of Willow's mystical walkabout being a walkabout in time, in the future, particularly the 'we haven't met yet' line. I think Willow knows what's going to happen, who's going to betray Buffy, and that - by not telling her - she is in some way responsible for what happens to Buffy in the future, and that's why the demon is showing it to them. I think events will eventually link Buffy to Fray, and that Willow believes in 'the end of magic'; whatever she's not telling Buffy, I think it's for the greater good. I'm going to say that everyone is going to turn their backs on Buffy - in the way that Giles already has, and Willow seems to be distancing herself, too - until there's no one left but her and Xander. That's when Whedon will pull Xander's 'unexpected' betrayal out of the bag. And the rest of the Scoobies will save her. Yay! MB x That was very plausible. Now having read Joss' recent comments on Willow's mystical walkabout and in his words "what she brings back with her" it makes me think it's the most likely situation. What else could Willow "bring back with her" that would be more powerful than knowledge of the future. She obviously has increased power, but it was a six month trip, so maybe that wasn't that only thing she gained from her journey. It also makes perfect sense that Willow would know who will betray Buffy, and in not telling her she aids in the betrayal, which could have been a double meaning to the line "Anymore than I have..." In the Christian Philosophy, Peter told Jesus he would never deny him and then denied him three times. I wonder if there could be an allegory here?
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barryshaft
Novice Witch
Sometimes I shouldn't say words...[Mo0:0]
Posts: 224
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Post by barryshaft on May 9, 2008 6:38:43 GMT -5
So I dug up this thread (which was a good one) because I randomly had a theory that I haven't seen posted about anywhere. I've been very very opposed to the idea (that many seem to be all with) that Xander could possibly be the betrayer...but if Xander starts heading down a dark path in the near future (after the events of Wolves at The Gate) what if he ends up somehow getting vamped? That would make a lot of sense in terms of story and while it would be a very tragic turn for Xander's character, wouldn't be the complete 180 others have suggested. With Wolves at The Gate it's been shown that finally Vampires do actually hold water again with the Scoobies and I wouldn't be surprised if we headed back to a Vamp as the Big Bad territory... This was something I always wanted to see explored on one of the series (and sadly we would have got it if Angel had continued) the complete turn of one of the characters we know and love. I'm not going so far as to suggest it's possibly Vamp Xander would be Twilight (though...while we're supposin' stuff...why not? He does completely cover himself up, something that has shown to work for vampires in sunlight And our new vamp-baddies can fly...) Anyways, just a random thought.
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Post by wenxina on May 9, 2008 11:56:08 GMT -5
And our new vamp-baddies can fly...) Anyways, just a random thought. Actually, I think the only one that's been shown to be able to fly in humanoid form is Kumiko. The others seem pretty flat-footed to me, except when assuming bat-mode, or bee-mode, or whatever dastardly creature they fancy, with wings that is. So for now... not sold. Interesting idea though... but as strong as vampires go... lifting whole church steeples isn't quite in their range. Magic steroids may help, but speculative at best for now. Plus... Xander's grown up with strong women, he's even fallen in love with a few of them. Doesn't seem likely that he'll turn around and start deeming them as weak. BUT... if your prediction is true, I'd really want a good explanation because it's way too easy to just write it off as writers on crack at that point. And hey, if you want vampires to be the Big Bad again, read Fray, if you haven't already, where the apparent Big Bad is a runty vampire.
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Post by themaleslayer on May 9, 2008 18:13:38 GMT -5
Dawn. I think this because sooner or later she'll find a way to become normal again, and if it's sooner than later, the price to be payed is to betray buffy. Also Dawn has that "Buffy hates me" attitude. Very suspicious.
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Post by Rebecca on May 9, 2008 18:34:43 GMT -5
I want Satsu to be the betrayer. Close and unexpected. Is that to be unexpected from the audience's perspective, or from Buffy's? If it's from Buffy's, I think it's Satsu, because at this point in time, Satsu is the last person Buffy would suspect... and we all know Buffy's lovers all betray her at some point.
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Post by themaleslayer on May 9, 2008 19:03:38 GMT -5
I want Satsu to be the betrayer. Close and unexpected. Is that to be unexpected from the audience's perspective, or from Buffy's? If it's from Buffy's, I think it's Satsu, because at this point in time, Satsu is the last person Buffy would suspect... and we all know Buffy's lovers all betray her at some point. True, though spike was the only one who stayed loyal to her...
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Post by themaleslayer on May 9, 2008 20:45:45 GMT -5
Well....true. But in a way, he was most loyal to her, even as a soul-less creep. Edit: Oh and I love your banner
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Post by Rebecca on May 9, 2008 20:50:03 GMT -5
why thank you but I do disagree that he was *most* loyal to her, because angel was always loyal to her, even leaving LA for her own good, and Riley was pretty faithful with exception to that whole vampire-sucking power thing [never really got that].
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Post by themaleslayer on May 9, 2008 20:53:03 GMT -5
why thank you but I do disagree that he was *most* loyal to her, because angel was always loyal to her, even leaving LA for her own good, and Riley was pretty faithful with exception to that whole vampire-sucking power thing [never really got that]. Well, yeah...but then again it's opinion...oh well. Edit: But yeah, I think Dawn is a more likely candidate to betray Buffy, because she never was really close to Satsu. But than again, Satsu knew enough stuff to betray buffy...hmmm...on second thought, I don't think they qualify as a likely candidate...
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Post by Wyndam on May 9, 2008 20:57:23 GMT -5
Looking strictly at the evidence that has been prevented so far, I have to say that the betrayer is Andrew.
In "The Long Way Home," Ethan tells Buffy to remember everything she sees, and while walking around in her dream space or whatever it was, we see that Gamorrean creature from Star Wars, and in that same arc we are reminded by Joss that Andrew loves Star Wars. I've posted about this before, and I just can't shake that connection.
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Post by themaleslayer on May 9, 2008 21:00:59 GMT -5
Looking strictly at the evidence that has been prevented so far, I have to say that the betrayer is Andrew. In "The Long Way Home," Ethan tells Buffy to remember everything she sees, and while walking around in her dream space or whatever it was, we see that Gamorrean creature from Star Wars, and in that same arc we are reminded by Joss that Andrew loves Star Wars. I've posted about this before, and I just can't shake that connection. True...she hasn't been all that fair to him in the past, but he did seem faithful to Buffy...And you never know, it could've been a part of hear dream...and dreams don't exactly have to make sense.
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Post by wenxina on May 9, 2008 21:28:51 GMT -5
She roped him to a chair... threatened to go all Kathy Bates on him... yeah, of course he stayed faithful. But I think that Andrew's just thankful to have something going for him right now. "Storyteller" kinda marked him for redeemed, with him coming to his personal epiphany. So, for now, I'm giving Andrew the white hat card. If something happens to change that... great, I like twists; pretzels and plot kinds included.
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Post by Emmie on May 9, 2008 21:33:01 GMT -5
Andrew was deluded enough to murder his best friend, his only friend. Of all the people around Buffy, he's the weak link imo. It'd be easy to manipulate him into betraying Team-Buffster.
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Post by wenxina on May 9, 2008 21:35:20 GMT -5
This however was before Buffy's hard lesson about how life isn't a story, and he gave up delusions of obtaining power and the such. Again, not saying that he's not weak, but it seems like he's moved on to other things for now... he's always kinda wanted to be in with the Scoobies, and now he's in, I'm not sure if he wants out. Also, he totally thinks that Xander's hot... and the eyepatch and weight loss have gotta up Xander's "Ooohlala!" factor.
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Post by Emmie on May 9, 2008 21:38:11 GMT -5
I just don't have alot of faith in Andrew's character. I can see him backsliding pretty easily into his old behavior. He's a sychophant and by definition will go to the crowd he most wants to fit into. Twilight would look pretty cool to Andrew, he's more a superhero with all his powers than even Buffy.
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Post by wenxina on May 9, 2008 21:58:25 GMT -5
Tis true... flying mojo is something that Andrew's always kinda wanted... he was pissed because he didn't get a jetpack. I dunno... I guess it's just the part of me that sees such a blatant regression in characterization as a set back, regardless of the situation. True, it can be argued that maybe he never moved into redemption-ville, but I thought that he did, so for me, Andrew just leeching onto the cool crowd again would just seem counter-intuitive. But point acknowledged.
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