littleshiva
Common Vampire
i wish to do more violence.[Mo0:3]
Posts: 88
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Post by littleshiva on Mar 29, 2008 11:50:04 GMT -5
Okay, but all this aside...Spike's licensed by IDW...and remember, Scott Allie said "no crossovers, at least not with other people's characters," way back in Issue #1. Of course, we now know he was alluding to Fray...
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sire
Potential Slayer
Glad to see you've found the softer side of Sears[Mo0:0]
Posts: 143
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Post by sire on Mar 30, 2008 22:03:59 GMT -5
I hope its clem
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Post by KingofCretins on Mar 30, 2008 23:42:39 GMT -5
I am in the middle of a rewatch of Season 6. In "As You Were", Riley and Sam's tactical outfits were of particular interest. Riley and Sam about to leave -- notice, the body armor appears a dark brown in contrast to the black/dark grey top. Buffy and Riley in profile -- pay particular attention to the waist line. Twilight, from 8.09The parallels are striking -- take into account the difference in lighting, the difference in visual medium, and the likelihood that Georges' best reference photos are really, really poorly lit. Doesn't this seem like it's essentially the same outfit? Plus the Twilight logo, the overcoat, and the mask? I'm feeling much more solid about Riley as Twilight. I have a working theory as to his motivation -- Sam killed by insane and/or rogue Slayer. He doesn't hold it precisely against Buffy, just sees it as something to be corrected. Further, a working theory as to his powers -- he is a Buffyverse adaptation of "The Hood", a Brian K. Vaughan character with similar powers to Twilight who obtains them by wearing boots and a cloak taken from a Nisanti demon. Nisanti is a word that also appears in Twilight's "guidebook" as part of Roden's teleportation spell. Idea here being Riley loses his wife, realizes that it's the supernatural forces in the world that are the cause of the all major problems, and uses artifacts, the boots (first thing we see of him?) and the cloak, maybe the mask to obtain the power he needs to carry it out. He has his military background and ties to influence human authority and his newfound powers to influence and manipulate the supernatural. So you end up with an enemy who manipulates the supernatural to do what he wants it to do while getting it killed in the process.
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littleshiva
Common Vampire
i wish to do more violence.[Mo0:3]
Posts: 88
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Post by littleshiva on Mar 31, 2008 11:20:29 GMT -5
kingofcretins, i think that totally tracks. Riley's ideology has always been in opposition to Buffy's--he thinks demons and magic can and should be controlled via technology, while Buffy has a connection to the mystic. A Buffy/Riley showdown would be super cool. Also, he's the only boyfriend she's had who hasn't had a turn being the "big bad."
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Mar 31, 2008 12:48:55 GMT -5
I have a thought. In Anywhere but here, robin(?) says that they have to save the prince. Could that be Twilight, or could it be Dracula?
My money's on Dracula, but who knows...
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iloveromy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
[Mo0:10]
Posts: 684
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Post by iloveromy on Mar 31, 2008 12:59:51 GMT -5
I have a thought. In Anywhere but here, robin(?) says that they have to save the prince. Could that be Twilight, or could it be Dracula? My money's on Dracula, but who knows... When I read Anywhere but here, my first reaction is that it was Dracula. But if Buffy is the Queen... as in "All hail the Queen" I wonder who the Prince could be? Still Dracula? If Dawn is pregnant then is her offspring the Prince? I wanna know!!!
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Post by Wyndam on Mar 31, 2008 13:19:11 GMT -5
Another thing that supports the idea that Riley is Twilight is the military's involvement in "The Long Way Home." Plus the last time we saw Ethan was when the Initiative/Government group took him away after turning Giles into a Fyarl. I feel that would make Ethan the bigger candidate though, as simply a military involvement isn't enough to just say Riley is Twilight. I just don't see much of a reason for Riley as Twilight.
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Post by Rebecca on Mar 31, 2008 18:40:45 GMT -5
WARNING: FRAY SPOILERS 2. Harth. With the introduction of Fray in the upcoming arc, and the fact that Harth's original Big Bad plan involved opening holes between worlds and restoring some kind of "old order," I think he's a suspect. I LOVE LOVE LOVE Harth as suspect. Perhaps he can fly because of some technology from the future (>>>flying boots?). Besides, Harth didn't die at the end of Fray, he disappeared after he said "You'll never guess what's coming next". Like littleshiva said, Harth has that whole motive to open the gateway and 'bring the old ones back', and it was mentioned in Fray that at the end battle where magic was banished, all demons were banished from the earth dimension as well. Perhaps after the mishap that was the last issue in Fray, he decided to go the other way... push all the demons out of earth forever, happy in their hell dimension. I like the idea of Harth being Twilight because he's a white male, with *a distinctive jawline*, has access to flight technology of the sort Twilight possibly uses, he comes off as a sociopath that kills and beats people up while saying he cares about them (i.e. Mel), AND he has slayer memories, which explains how he knows Buffy so well (incl. her boyfriends, that move she pulled on Caleb, etc.). Harth: You don't dream much, do you, Mel? I dreamed. Always. Before my earliest memories of the world, There were the dreams. There was the girl. She was different every time. But the same. A peasant, a priestess... hundreds of girls, from times we've forgotten, worlds we couldn't picture. She was me. She wasn't me. I loved her. This would explain why Joss et al. would have him masked so far... he is an existing character from the B'verse, but he isn't all that well known since recently, it has become evident that many, many Buffy fans have not read Fray.
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Post by gunsandsmoke on Apr 1, 2008 16:10:16 GMT -5
The only reason I assume he is someone we know is because he is masked. The only time a character dons a mask is when they want to hide their identity from the world. Why would he hide unless it is a character Buffy knows? Also, having no clear eye holes in the mask makes it so that it could be literally any male...Xander included. He is shown in Issue 11 to be quite big and much taller than Buffy. I dunno how I feel about the "Xander is Twilight" theory. I mean, this is Xander we are talking about! The guy who always gets his ass kicked. The guy who always use to self-proclaim how unimportant he was due to his lack of any powers. He has fought with Buffy from the start, never betrayed anyone and lost his eye for the cause. I just don't see him fitting the mold. Not to mention all his duties with the slayers must leave him little to no time to galavant around in a double life.
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Post by gunsandsmoke on Apr 1, 2008 16:19:50 GMT -5
Anyone else see the costume resemblance of Twilight to Spike? The coat and the boots. It could be a future Spike. This would explain why he had the scythe in after the fall (flash forward) and would explain why Twilight would know that move Buffy used on Caleb in Chosen. Spike was there spying on her. Maybe something happens to Spike in the future and comes back to stop Buffy. Ehh, it's all I got. I love this theory. I kind of wonder if Buffy would recognize his (or Giles's) accent, or if he could cover it somehow... I think this theory sounds pretty awesome. I don't think there is a huge chance it turns out to be Spike from the future, but how crazy would it be?! I mean, doesn't he only appear at night or early morning and the take off once the sun starts to rise? Super-Vamp? However, I think Brian Lynch said in his blog that the Ax Spike was holding wasn't the scythe, just an ax that looks similar. Deception maybe? And about the accent.. Look at Angel. He use to have an Irish accent and then lost it over time. If Spike lives long enough and is away from other Brits, then chances are he could lose it to.
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Post by gunsandsmoke on Apr 1, 2008 16:30:06 GMT -5
I am in the middle of a rewatch of Season 6. In "As You Were", Riley and Sam's tactical outfits were of particular interest. Riley and Sam about to leave -- notice, the body armor appears a dark brown in contrast to the black/dark grey top. Buffy and Riley in profile -- pay particular attention to the waist line. Twilight, from 8.09The parallels are striking -- take into account the difference in lighting, the difference in visual medium, and the likelihood that Georges' best reference photos are really, really poorly lit. Doesn't this seem like it's essentially the same outfit? Plus the Twilight logo, the overcoat, and the mask? I'm feeling much more solid about Riley as Twilight. I have a working theory as to his motivation -- Sam killed by insane and/or rogue Slayer. He doesn't hold it precisely against Buffy, just sees it as something to be corrected. Further, a working theory as to his powers -- he is a Buffyverse adaptation of "The Hood", a Brian K. Vaughan character with similar powers to Twilight who obtains them by wearing boots and a cloak taken from a Nisanti demon. Nisanti is a word that also appears in Twilight's "guidebook" as part of Roden's teleportation spell. Idea here being Riley loses his wife, realizes that it's the supernatural forces in the world that are the cause of the all major problems, and uses artifacts, the boots (first thing we see of him?) and the cloak, maybe the mask to obtain the power he needs to carry it out. He has his military background and ties to influence human authority and his newfound powers to influence and manipulate the supernatural. So you end up with an enemy who manipulates the supernatural to do what he wants it to do while getting it killed in the process. You definitely broke down the whole Riley/Twilight thing here in the best way out of everyone so far. Now I'm like 75% sure about Riley, but Joss is a dynamic guy and might just go with something so far out of left field that we all just go, "Huh?!"
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Post by gunsandsmoke on Apr 1, 2008 16:39:00 GMT -5
WARNING: FRAY SPOILERS 2. Harth. With the introduction of Fray in the upcoming arc, and the fact that Harth's original Big Bad plan involved opening holes between worlds and restoring some kind of "old order," I think he's a suspect. I LOVE LOVE LOVE Harth as suspect. Perhaps he can fly because of some technology from the future (>>>flying boots?). Besides, Harth didn't die at the end of Fray, he disappeared after he said "You'll never guess what's coming next". Like littleshiva said, Harth has that whole motive to open the gateway and 'bring the old ones back', and it was mentioned in Fray that at the end battle where magic was banished, all demons were banished from the earth dimension as well. Perhaps after the mishap that was the last issue in Fray, he decided to go the other way... push all the demons out of earth forever, happy in their hell dimension. I like the idea of Harth being Twilight because he's a white male, with *a distinctive jawline*, has access to flight technology of the sort Twilight possibly uses, he comes off as a sociopath that kills and beats people up while saying he cares about them (i.e. Mel), AND he has slayer memories, which explains how he knows Buffy so well (incl. her boyfriends, that move she pulled on Caleb, etc.). Harth: You don't dream much, do you, Mel? I dreamed. Always. Before my earliest memories of the world, There were the dreams. There was the girl. She was different every time. But the same. A peasant, a priestess... hundreds of girls, from times we've forgotten, worlds we couldn't picture. She was me. She wasn't me. I loved her. This would explain why Joss et al. would have him masked so far... he is an existing character from the B'verse, but he isn't all that well known since recently, it has become evident that many, many Buffy fans have not read Fray. Once I saw the Fray crossover spoiler I immediately thought about the Harth/Twilight connection. I think this one has a really good chance. However, the masking of Harth/Twilight confuses me. Is he masked so the fans don't recognize him or does his masking have to do with Buffy and the characters? And not many people read Fray up until last week. Would Joss really put all his chips on making the big bad a fairly unknown character in the Whedonverse?
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Post by hitnrun017 on Apr 1, 2008 20:53:50 GMT -5
I don't get how people can think Harth could be Twilight. I mean, Twilight is built very Angel/Riley-esque, Harth is pretty much littler than Buffy.
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Post by Rebecca on Apr 1, 2008 21:19:44 GMT -5
I think stature is very subjective in comics. So far, we have seen Harth and Melaka Fray drawn by Karl Moline, who, in the issue 16 previews, puts Fray and Buffy at roughly the same size. Going that far, because Mel and Harth are the same height in Fray, Buffy and Harth would be the same size.
In the end, height is taken with artisitic license. As for physique/stature, yes, I agree, Harth does look a bit whimpy in Fray. Despite this, I remember that vampires have to exercise and keep their physique similarly to humans. Admittedly, Twilight does seem to have more strength than a vampire, though could it be that Harth used a spell to uber-charge his strength, thus changing his physique to a more rugged, Riley-esque stature?
This is no farther reaching than Riley's wife becoming a slayer and getting killed thus propelling Riley into a dark magicked role to eliminate the slayer threat.
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Post by Rebecca on Apr 1, 2008 21:23:34 GMT -5
WARNING: FRAY SPOILERSI LOVE LOVE LOVE Harth as suspect. Perhaps he can fly because of some technology from the future (>>>flying boots?). Besides, Harth didn't die at the end of Fray, he disappeared after he said "You'll never guess what's coming next". Like littleshiva said, Harth has that whole motive to open the gateway and 'bring the old ones back', and it was mentioned in Fray that at the end battle where magic was banished, all demons were banished from the earth dimension as well. Perhaps after the mishap that was the last issue in Fray, he decided to go the other way... push all the demons out of earth forever, happy in their hell dimension. I like the idea of Harth being Twilight because he's a white male, with *a distinctive jawline*, has access to flight technology of the sort Twilight possibly uses, he comes off as a sociopath that kills and beats people up while saying he cares about them (i.e. Mel), AND he has slayer memories, which explains how he knows Buffy so well (incl. her boyfriends, that move she pulled on Caleb, etc.). Harth: You don't dream much, do you, Mel? I dreamed. Always. Before my earliest memories of the world, There were the dreams. There was the girl. She was different every time. But the same. A peasant, a priestess... hundreds of girls, from times we've forgotten, worlds we couldn't picture. She was me. She wasn't me. I loved her. This would explain why Joss et al. would have him masked so far... he is an existing character from the B'verse, but he isn't all that well known since recently, it has become evident that many, many Buffy fans have not read Fray. Once I saw the Fray crossover spoiler I immediately thought about the Harth/Twilight connection. I think this one has a really good chance. However, the masking of Harth/Twilight confuses me. Is he masked so the fans don't recognize him or does his masking have to do with Buffy and the characters? And not many people read Fray up until last week. Would Joss really put all his chips on making the big bad a fairly unknown character in the Whedonverse? I agree he isn't well known in the fandom, however the issue 16 cover has made more than a few go out and read Fray. The existence of a Fray arc would queue people into that story, which would explain why he wasn't unmasked before that arc.
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littleshiva
Common Vampire
i wish to do more violence.[Mo0:3]
Posts: 88
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Post by littleshiva on Apr 1, 2008 21:45:54 GMT -5
I still would rather it be Riley, though I'm glad other people are into the Harth theory, too.
Riley would just make so much more sense...
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Post by Rebecca on Apr 1, 2008 22:06:48 GMT -5
Honestly, although it is highly favored, objectively I think the Harth theory makes more sense than the Riley one.
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Apr 2, 2008 7:05:29 GMT -5
The only reason I assume he is someone we know is because he is masked. The only time a character dons a mask is when they want to hide their identity from the world. Why would he hide unless it is a character Buffy knows? . To make the readers believe that it's someone Buffy knows...
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Apr 2, 2008 7:08:29 GMT -5
Another thing that supports the idea that Riley is Twilight is the military's involvement in "The Long Way Home." Plus the last time we saw Ethan was when the Initiative/Government group took him away after turning Giles into a Fyarl. Ethan dies in Long way Home. not that that stops villians from returning...
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gloriousone
Potential Slayer
I believe in Glorificus
Posts: 146
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Post by gloriousone on Apr 2, 2008 7:42:45 GMT -5
I like Harth theory.It makes sense. Apparently Joss wants us to think Twilight is Riley.In issue #11 Buffy said "People who love me tend to die...Maybe go to a hell dimension,or burn up ,or they start letting vamps suck on 'em..." and pages later,Twilight complaint about his itchy neck.Come on,if Twilight was Riley,Joss wouldn't make it that obvious.I don't think Riley can be that sinister.He doesn't need to banish all the magic from earth to hurt Buffy. Although i believe a main character as Twilight could make more interesting story,Harth fits the role better than anyone else (for now
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