|
Post by gunsandsmoke on Apr 11, 2008 20:26:16 GMT -5
I just re-read all 13 issues of S8 over the last couple of days, and I'm more convinced than ever now that it's Giles. Riley, Angel, Caleb, and Xander have been popular guesses for awhile, and the size is about right for any of them. Oz and Harth can pretty much be ruled out for the same reason--they're both little pipsqueaks, so unless part of their new powers was something that made them much bigger... The problem with Riley, Caleb, Xander, or Angel is that the dialogue just doesn't fit with their established speech patterns. Twilight speaks in a very 'proper' way, which just completely clashes with how any of those four speak. And since most of Twilight's dialogue so far is in an issue written by Joss, you can assume he of all people is not gonna goof and write one of his own characters that incorrectly. On the other hand, it's DEAD-ON with the way Giles speaks. Seriously, go back and read his two appearances (issues 9 and 11) and try to imagine Tony Head's voice in your head as you're reading. The other thing that makes me very suspicious of Giles is something I only noticed on this most recent S8 read-through. When he shows up to recruit Faith, he tells her Gigi is planning to bring about the apocalypse. Yet nothing Gigi--or even Roden--says backs this up. Gigi wants to kill Buffy and become some kind of Slayer Queen. Roden believes Twilight wants him to train a slayer who could kill all the other slayers. Okay, possibly a completely unrelated apocalypse could be brewing somewhere else that wouldn't have been able to be stopped if Buffy and/or a lot of the other slayers were dead, but that wasn't part of Gigi's plan. But that's not what Giles tells Faith. Lastly, Twilight clearly has a lot of power, and of all the people mentinoned--Riley, Angel, Xander, Harth, Oz, Caleb--only Giles has ever been shown to have something like these abilities before. Granted, they were borrowed from a coven and weren't his, but who's to say he didn't find some way of getting them back? And from the things he's said, Twilight obviously knows Buffy very well, understands how she thinks, and I believe only Xander, Willow, and Giles know her that well... Man, I dunno about the Giles/Twilight theory... I thought about this for a while and soon after convinced myself out of it. You make some solid points but I still don't think I can leap that far. As far as Twilight being a big guy, your right. I doubt Oz has been hitting the gym and taking HGH. Harth is still a feeble size even if he has vamp super powers. With the way Twilight speaks, I dunno if that is enough to make judgment. Riley never was one for throwing around slang. He was very militant in the way he spoke and if he has been on some quest to gather artifacts (such as the boots, coat, under armor, ect) I'm sure he would have grown smarter and more articulate. Plus, Riley always felt inadequate around Buffy and the rest of them & not in the same way Xander did. See, Xander would just mope around about it while Riley went to extremes to make himself better and stronger. Who's to say Riley didn't meet a Warlock/Witch in a mission who got him jacked on magic. If Giles was Twilight, why not just destroy Roden and Gigi himself rather than drag Faith into it and risk getting caught. Also, when Giles is outside the estate he can't break through the magic force field on his own. If he was Twilight he could have smashed his way through, no problem. I mean, he was flying over Buffy's castle in the first issue and how guarded do you think that place is? And if Gigi did kill Buffy and became the "Slayer Queen" with Roden at her side, I think that could bring on a form of apocalypse. To to mention Roden also believe Twilight wants him to do make this happen. Besides, when Giles killed Roden he was using his own magic book. Your telling me if he was Twilight he wouldn't be able to do that himself. I just wonder, what would Giles gain out of all this. He is the quintessential good guy. Why fight for so long on the side of good just to tear down all that he helped create? I don't see any smart motive in that. Also, I think the fans would shit themselves if Giles became bad (and not in the good way!). It may not be the most exciting choice, but I think its likely to be someone of the "Riley" category.
|
|
|
Post by Emmie on Apr 11, 2008 21:36:22 GMT -5
Sometimes I wonder if Ethan didn't show up in Buffy's dream to lead her to him, so he could elaborately set up his own death in front of her. Ethan's dead so he can't be Twilight, can he? But what if he just used magic to make that dead guy look like Ethan. Plus Ethan is big on manipulating people so he fits that profile and he has connections with the Initiative - maybe he made an alliance with someone while on the inside. It'd be a classic misdirection.
|
|
El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
|
Post by El Diablo Robotico on Apr 11, 2008 22:16:28 GMT -5
Man, I dunno about the Giles/Twilight theory... I thought about this for a while and soon after convinced myself out of it. You make some solid points but I still don't think I can leap that far. As far as Twilight being a big guy, your right. I doubt Oz has been hitting the gym and taking HGH. Harth is still a feeble size even if he has vamp super powers. With the way Twilight speaks, I dunno if that is enough to make judgment. Riley never was one for throwing around slang. He was very militant in the way he spoke and if he has been on some quest to gather artifacts (such as the boots, coat, under armor, ect) I'm sure he would have grown smarter and more articulate. Plus, Riley always felt inadequate around Buffy and the rest of them & not in the same way Xander did. See, Xander would just mope around about it while Riley went to extremes to make himself better and stronger. Who's to say Riley didn't meet a Warlock/Witch in a mission who got him jacked on magic. If Giles was Twilight, why not just destroy Roden and Gigi himself rather than drag Faith into it and risk getting caught. Also, when Giles is outside the estate he can't break through the magic force field on his own. If he was Twilight he could have smashed his way through, no problem. I mean, he was flying over Buffy's castle in the first issue and how guarded do you think that place is? And if Gigi did kill Buffy and became the "Slayer Queen" with Roden at her side, I think that could bring on a form of apocalypse. To to mention Roden also believe Twilight wants him to do make this happen. Besides, when Giles killed Roden he was using his own magic book. Your telling me if he was Twilight he wouldn't be able to do that himself. I just wonder, what would Giles gain out of all this. He is the quintessential good guy. Why fight for so long on the side of good just to tear down all that he helped create? I don't see any smart motive in that. Also, I think the fans would shit themselves if Giles became bad (and not in the good way!). It may not be the most exciting choice, but I think its likely to be someone of the "Riley" category. Some good arguments there that, offhand, I don't have good rebuttals for. I would, tho, point to... *** "Angel" S4 spoilers!!! ****** "Angel" S4 spoilers!!! ***...Evil Cordy, and all they went to to keep us unsuspecting of her for awhile. Mainly, I'm thinking of the teaser to "Apocalypse, Nowish", where she has a nightmare about the Beast showing up at Connor's loft to kill her. Now since she's the higher power controlling the Beast, why in the world would she ever be having a nightmare about it? This seems like nothing more than misdirection aimed at keeping the audience off-balance for a few episodes longer. So would Joss throw some scenes in there that in hindsight maybe don't make a whole lot of sense, logic-wise, in order to keep us from guessing Twilight's identity? Past evidence says yeah, possibly he would. Hey, what if it's something crazy like there's actually two Gileses, one good and one evil?
|
|
iloveromy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
[Mo0:10]
Posts: 684
|
Post by iloveromy on Apr 12, 2008 16:00:57 GMT -5
I would also like to add from Fray that...
***Spoiler***
***Spoiler***
That the watchers are a bunch of mad men. Maybe something starts with Giles. Who knows...
|
|
|
Post by chronicboredom on Apr 13, 2008 16:50:42 GMT -5
If it's Giles I'll be a bit upset (to say the least) HOWEVER if Giles has the right motives and he is actually -somehow- on the side of good, I'd be ok with it. =) Maybe he is trying to focus Buffy's attention, she has always had a 'big bad' to fight but now her life is all over the place with the slayer army. He could be giving her something to focus on fighting. I know it's elaborate but I need Giles to be Buffy's fighting-for-good Dad, right till the end!
|
|
|
Post by Rebecca on Apr 14, 2008 2:57:53 GMT -5
I just don't see Giles donning a mask and cape to tell Buffy she's an idiot. He'd just tell her to her face.
|
|
sire
Potential Slayer
Glad to see you've found the softer side of Sears[Mo0:0]
Posts: 143
|
Post by sire on Apr 14, 2008 3:29:09 GMT -5
God I hope its a new character.
Ps there is NO WAY Riley is twilight, its pretty obvious from the show that joss Whedon aint that interested in the character. On top of that he's one of the most boring and hated characters in buffy it's just be tre stupdio to bring him back as the big bad. Twlight+riley= Shark Jumped.
|
|
|
Post by capricek on Apr 14, 2008 3:57:59 GMT -5
Giles theory- read issue 9, Twilight appeared on the next page after Giles. Though it never states how long it is between scenes. Giles has the book with the Twilight symbol on it. His line 'Roden and Genevieve were not my minions... they were my targets' may be a clue to him being Giles, since Giles was the one who sent Faith to kill them.
|
|
dane5by5
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 734
|
Post by dane5by5 on Apr 14, 2008 4:55:51 GMT -5
Giles theory- read issue 9, Twilight appeared on the next page after Giles. Though it never states how long it is between scenes. Giles has the book with the Twilight symbol on it. His line 'Roden and Genevieve were not my minions... they were my targets' may be a clue to him being Giles, since Giles was the one who sent Faith to kill them. That's an interesting theory. I hope you're wrong, because I really don't want Giles to turn full-blown evil, even if it is for the best intentions. I wonder if anything will come of Giles finding Roden's "Twilight" book. I hope that comes up in the story, like what they found in the book.
|
|
|
Post by gunsandsmoke on Apr 14, 2008 16:59:37 GMT -5
God I hope its a new character. Ps there is NO WAY Riley is twilight, its pretty obvious from the show that joss Whedon aint that interested in the character. On top of that he's one of the most boring and hated characters in buffy it's just be tre stupdio to bring him back as the big bad. Twlight+riley= Shark Jumped. I never understand why people say "Joss hated "(Fill in the Character)". I highly doubt he hates any of the characters he helped create. Just because he never lasted doesn't mean joss hated him. If he did, why would he bring him back with his new wife in the next season? If we had to use a character that already existed, I would think Riley has the best chance. But I'm with you on the idea of a new character.
|
|
El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
|
Post by El Diablo Robotico on Apr 14, 2008 17:28:14 GMT -5
Since we know that there will be some time-travel involved in S8, it's possible Twilight is Giles from a few years in the future. That's actually probably the only way I could accept it, if he has knowledge of some future calamity that Buffy or the slayers caused ( will cause), and he'd resort to any means necessary to stop it. Hey, what if Twilight turned out to be Joss? :vampirebite:
|
|
ded1
Rogue Demon Hunter
The Zombie Lord
BRAINS!!![Mo0:8]
Posts: 468
|
Post by ded1 on Apr 14, 2008 17:46:37 GMT -5
I like the Joss as Twilight angle.He ends up working with Buffy to end magic,kicks Angel and Spike's ass,then runs away with Buffy to live happily ever after.
|
|
|
Post by gunsandsmoke on Apr 14, 2008 17:49:21 GMT -5
Since we know that there will be some time-travel involved in S8, it's possible Twilight is Giles from a few years in the future. That's actually probably the only way I could accept it, if he has knowledge of some future calamity that Buffy or the slayers caused ( will cause), and he'd resort to any means necessary to stop it. Hey I really like that theory! Probably the best Giles/Twilight theory yet. It would make sense as to why he is wearing the mask (Not just to hide himself from Buffy, but maybe from past Giles?) Maybe somehow through a series of events, it turns out to be Buffy who becomes the big bad by leading her army of slayers to do something that will hurt the world more than help it, and Giles has to stop her. I just don't know why he wouldn't just come back as regular Giles. Wouldn't that convince Buffy more than some masked guy named Twilight??
|
|
|
Post by Rebecca on Apr 15, 2008 1:21:04 GMT -5
Since we know that there will be some time-travel involved in S8, it's possible Twilight is Giles from a few years in the future. That's actually probably the only way I could accept it, if he has knowledge of some future calamity that Buffy or the slayers caused ( will cause), and he'd resort to any means necessary to stop it. Hey I really like that theory! Probably the best Giles/Twilight theory yet. It would make sense as to why he is wearing the mask (Not just to hide himself from Buffy, but maybe from past Giles?) Maybe somehow through a series of events, it turns out to be Buffy who becomes the big bad by leading her army of slayers to do something that will hurt the world more than help it, and Giles has to stop her. I just don't know why he wouldn't just come back as regular Giles. Wouldn't that convince Buffy more than some masked guy named Twilight?? all i gotta say is: really?? come on.... look at all that objectively and see if you head does not spin and fall off.
|
|
|
Post by gunsandsmoke on Apr 15, 2008 7:12:40 GMT -5
Hey I really like that theory! Probably the best Giles/Twilight theory yet. It would make sense as to why he is wearing the mask (Not just to hide himself from Buffy, but maybe from past Giles?) Maybe somehow through a series of events, it turns out to be Buffy who becomes the big bad by leading her army of slayers to do something that will hurt the world more than help it, and Giles has to stop her. I just don't know why he wouldn't just come back as regular Giles. Wouldn't that convince Buffy more than some masked guy named Twilight?? all i gotta say is: really?? come on.... look at all that objectively and see if you head does not spin and fall off. Of course if you look at it objectively there is no way it's Giles. I convinced myself of that a long time ago. However, you gotta hand it to El Diablo Robotico for making some sorta sense outta the theory. Besides, without crazy ass theories like this, what would we have to write about?!?!
|
|
|
Post by Skytteflickan88 on Apr 15, 2008 9:08:51 GMT -5
None of the above. perhaos someone knew, perhaps someone old but not that close to Buffy... who is Harth?
|
|
BenTaylor3907
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Illyria's Qwa'ha Xahn
~ Listening To Fear ~[Mo0:25]
Posts: 2,958
|
Post by BenTaylor3907 on Apr 15, 2008 10:32:24 GMT -5
Harth is Melaka Fray's brother. I cant be Angel nor Spike since IDW owns the rights to those characters. I don't think its Caleb, I just think Twilight is a big stalker and saw him and Buffy fight. Giles is too old to be flying around fighting slayers. Same with Ethan (I don't believe hes dead. He always has something up his sleeve.) Xander? Honestly? I was talking to this guy in a Borders book store and he said its Riley and that he had an "Iron Man" type of suit that lets him fly (Except its made out of spandex or whatever Twilight's suit is made of!) Riley's too nice, but I don't think he would beat the crap out of her.
|
|
|
Post by capricek on Apr 15, 2008 10:49:48 GMT -5
Giles is too old to be flying around fighting slayers. Same with Ethan (I dont believe hes dead. He always has something up his sleave.) quote] Age has nothing to do with it if magic is involved. As for the suit theory, that's pretty dumb considering we know from the symbol and the book that's it's magic. Come on that wouldn't be very Buffy would it.
|
|
|
Post by henzINNIT on Apr 15, 2008 11:22:34 GMT -5
There's no "UR Mom" option. Fail.
Riley still seems smartest to me. The Ethan theory has its followers but still no-one has explained how a guy who has said he loves magic would suddenly devote his life to ending it.
|
|
BenTaylor3907
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Illyria's Qwa'ha Xahn
~ Listening To Fear ~[Mo0:25]
Posts: 2,958
|
Post by BenTaylor3907 on Apr 15, 2008 11:24:11 GMT -5
I think he meant that the suit is magical and that it gives him the power. Thats a Good point... (Age has nothing to do with it if magic is involved.)! OH SNAP! ITS ETHAN RAYNE!
|
|