Mathieu
Ensouled Vampire
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Post by Mathieu on Feb 7, 2009 21:35:53 GMT -5
Would like to point out that there's been follow-up on the whole Buffy vs. Dark Willow front. It's not between the two of them, and there's a reason why. In #20, Angel tells Buffy that changing the present could lead to very undesirable future outcomes. It's pretty much between the lines that Buffy (at least at the moment) has decided not to talk to Willow about going dark again in the future. I'd like to reiterate this, as many people have complained that there has been no discussion between Buffy and Willow regarding the events of 'Time of Your Life'. A major point of 'After These Messages..." was Buffy's dicision to keep this information to herself, to keep this secret from Willow. Which continues the trend of Buffy and Willow keeping secrets from each other... Which was also dealt with in 'Anywhere But Here'. Does anyone notice a recurring theme? I'm not sure if you are a recent fan of BtVS (as in post 2003) but these discussions have happened every season (even more so for Season Six and Seven) they have resulted in polemical debates between different groups of fans, and Season Eight is continuing this trend. The direction of almost every season has been contentious and it is much easier to have an objective opinion of the "Season" once it is finished. Another thing I would like to note is that if the Amy/Warren return is dealt with well, it could be well worth the recon. All the emotional issues that can be created by their return for Willow could make for an amazing story. We just need to wait and see how this pans out. When I started reading Season Eight, which is only the second comic series I read (after Fray) I had the same opinion regarding the art and likeness to the respective actors. Since then, I've come to accept the medium for what it is (or more for what it is not, which is television). Perhaps you need to do this too. We are not going to have the same bonding scenes between the Scoobies. This is due to two reasons, #1 the medium - 22 pages does not lend itself to these scenes due to the time/length constraints. If they are there, they will be shorter. #2 the story - running a global organisation does not leave a bunch of time for socialising at The Bronze. Another point I would like to make, if vampires did "come of of the coffin" to quote 'True Blood'. What would the response be? Would they be presucuted (a la 'True Blood') or would they be embraced? This story has chosen to take it the less explored possibility, and have the subculture accepted and welcomed by the population. Lasty, regarding issue #22 "Swell", new characters need to be developed and have story time devoted to them. I've always preferred the episodes where a side character gets the spotlight for an episode, they usually give the audience a greater deal of understanding of the character and allow for more character development. Episodes that come to mind are The Zeppo (Xander), Fool For Love (Spike), Selfless (Anya) and Storyteller (Andrew). These episodes are usually fan favourites, and for me, Swell will be a classic character issue of Season Eight on par with these character episodes. Yeah, like I just said, I just gave a look at some dialogues of issue 20 and I forgot what Angel said to Buffy. It kind of answers my questions.
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Mathieu
Ensouled Vampire
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Post by Mathieu on Feb 7, 2009 21:40:35 GMT -5
1. The core three have had plenty development so far, and their arcs are ongoing. We're not going to get long scenes of the characters sitting around talking because the medium doesn't doesn't allow for that; a single scene of a television episode would fill up almost a whole issue. However, I pointed out in another thread all the fun little Scooby interactions moments we've had so far; they are there. 2. No offense, but this is such a dumb point. The writers aren't supposed to utilize and develop new characters? What if they'd never taken the time to develop Anya, Tara, and Spike? As for "Who cares about them?", quite a lot of people actually. Satsu is probably the most popular new character introduced in the comics, and Kennedy has become massively popular due to her appearances in Season Eight. I admit the issue was flawed, which I covered in the "Swell" thread, but your argument against it is ridiculous. 3. Big Bads typically don't do much until later in the season, and we're only approximately half-way through. "Who is Twilight" is not the only storyline happening in Season Eight. Just relax and let the story unfold. 4. Most of these "stupid things" are just light comic relief. The Dawn storyline is ongoing and I always expected it to span the majority of the season. #25 looks set to deliver some answers, again just relax and be patient. 5. The artwork has been great and George Jeanty has done some of the best actor likenesses I've seen while remaining dynamic and natural. It's not photorealistic and it isn't trying to be. 6. Amy was fair game, she never got a conclusion in the TV show. It's too early to brand her and Warren "pointless" because they're in cahoots with Twilight and will likely have a bigger role later in the season. Joss wouldn't have brought Warren back if he didn't have a plan for him. 7. This again? Buffy and Satsu was handled fine. Everything would have seemed "more real" on TV, because we would have seen actual human beings acting it out. But it's a comic, so get over it. Are you saying they should just "play it safe" and not take risks with the story? Because that's not Buffy. As for subtlety, Kennedy's not subtle and never has been. She's going to tell it straight, so to speak. 8. The whole "vamps are in" thing is clearly a social commentary and people are taking it way too literally. I think it's pretty "in-character" for the Buffyverse that society has kind of a blasé attitude to the supernatural and it's a nice parody of the superficial MTV generation. Sorry if I've been a little kurt or rude in my responses, but honestly I've heard these complaints a million times and they all seem to come from impatient fans who have an obvious dislike of the comic book medium. All we ever hear is "we have to wait a whole month?!?" Get over it. Season Eight has been coming out just as regularly as any other comic book series and is paced very well (Christ, did none of you follow Joss' Astonishing X-Men, talk about perspective). People need to stop approaching Season Eight as a television series and appreciate it for what it is; a long-term story that is going to several years to tell but will be well worth it in the end. Yes your answers were kind of rude but I'm not offended, I guess I deserve it. My complaints were maybe not always justified. You win, I lose.
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dane5by5
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Post by dane5by5 on Feb 7, 2009 21:51:30 GMT -5
Yes your answers were kind of rude but I'm not offended, I guess I deserve it. My complaints were maybe not always justified. You win, I lose. If that poster was abrupt or rude, it's more because these are complaints that have been made many times before, not a personal attack at you. It's also not a win or lose situation. We're all reading the same series, it's about perspective and patience and understanding the medium and not expecting a television season in comic form. Season Eight has been very innovative and progressive and as Joss Whedon is writing/producing there will no doubt be a big payoff come issue #40.
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Mathieu
Ensouled Vampire
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Post by Mathieu on Feb 7, 2009 21:56:35 GMT -5
Yes your answers were kind of rude but I'm not offended, I guess I deserve it. My complaints were maybe not always justified. You win, I lose. If that poster was abrupt or rude, it's more because these are complaints that have been made many times before, not a personal attack at you. It's also not a win or lose situation. We're all reading the same series, it's about perspective and patience and understanding the medium and not expecting a television season in comic form. Season Eight has been very innovative and progressive and as Joss Whedon is writing/producing there will no doubt be a big payoff come issue #40. No I'm just saying that I read all your arguments and I didn't have much to respond because actually I think you are right on many points. I do have a hard time adjusting to the new format and I'm not the patient type. But I'm sure many things will pay off in the end. I was not a huge fan of season 6 and when I saw the final arc of the season with Willow turning dark, I finally understood how they had built the storyline and all of a sudden, everything made sense. i'm sure I won't be disappointed in the end.
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vampmogs
Novice Witch
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Post by vampmogs on Feb 8, 2009 0:09:42 GMT -5
8. I'm still having a hard time understanding how the world population suddenly realized they adored blood-suckers... again, what the hell? It would have been fun in an alternative reality... but this one, really? Think back to 'Lie to Me' and Ford's cult, full of people who believed vampires were poor misunderstood creatures. Think back to how Angel said "he's seen this type before." Think back to season seven with the entire population fleeing Sunnydale because they finally accepted the reality of evil supernatural forces. It's nothing new to the Buffyverse. Harmony and Twilight (yes he was responsible for the plush toys so it's pretty obvious he's part of this) have made vampires come across as the misunderstood ones, whereas the slayers appear to be the evil people. In the public's eye, Harmony the innocent friendly vampire was attacked by a slayer on television completely unprovoked. Also take into account 'After the Fall' with the whole population of LA remembering they were in hell with vampires and demons and now view Angel as their vampire champion.
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Mathieu
Ensouled Vampire
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Post by Mathieu on Feb 8, 2009 0:40:29 GMT -5
8. I'm still having a hard time understanding how the world population suddenly realized they adored blood-suckers... again, what the hell? It would have been fun in an alternative reality... but this one, really? Think back to 'Lie to Me' and Ford's cult, full of people who believed vampires were poor misunderstood creatures. Think back to how Angel said "he's seen this type before." Think back to season seven with the entire population fleeing Sunnydale because they finally accepted the reality of evil supernatural forces. It's nothing new to the Buffyverse. Harmony and Twilight (yes he was responsible for the plush toys so it's pretty obvious he's part of this) have made vampires come across as the misunderstood ones, whereas the slayers appear to be the evil people. In the public's eye, Harmony the innocent friendly vampire was attacked by a slayer on television completely unprovoked. Also take into account 'After the Fall' with the whole population of LA remembering they were in hell with vampires and demons and now view Angel as their vampire champion. I haven't read Angel After the Fall yet, but I'm planning on it... when I have the money!
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Post by iamthewalrus on Feb 8, 2009 6:02:25 GMT -5
1. The core three have had plenty development so far, and their arcs are ongoing. We're not going to get long scenes of the characters sitting around talking because the medium doesn't doesn't allow for that; a single scene of a television episode would fill up almost a whole issue. However, I pointed out in another thread all the fun little Scooby interactions moments we've had so far; they are there. 2. No offense, but this is such a dumb point. The writers aren't supposed to utilize and develop new characters? What if they'd never taken the time to develop Anya, Tara, and Spike? As for "Who cares about them?", quite a lot of people actually. Satsu is probably the most popular new character introduced in the comics, and Kennedy has become massively popular due to her appearances in Season Eight. I admit the issue was flawed, which I covered in the "Swell" thread, but your argument against it is ridiculous. 3. Big Bads typically don't do much until later in the season, and we're only approximately half-way through. "Who is Twilight" is not the only storyline happening in Season Eight. Just relax and let the story unfold. 4. Most of these "stupid things" are just light comic relief. The Dawn storyline is ongoing and I always expected it to span the majority of the season. #25 looks set to deliver some answers, again just relax and be patient. 5. The artwork has been great and George Jeanty has done some of the best actor likenesses I've seen while remaining dynamic and natural. It's not photorealistic and it isn't trying to be. 6. Amy was fair game, she never got a conclusion in the TV show. It's too early to brand her and Warren "pointless" because they're in cahoots with Twilight and will likely have a bigger role later in the season. Joss wouldn't have brought Warren back if he didn't have a plan for him. 7. This again? Buffy and Satsu was handled fine. Everything would have seemed "more real" on TV, because we would have seen actual human beings acting it out. But it's a comic, so get over it. Are you saying they should just "play it safe" and not take risks with the story? Because that's not Buffy. As for subtlety, Kennedy's not subtle and never has been. She's going to tell it straight, so to speak. 8. The whole "vamps are in" thing is clearly a social commentary and people are taking it way too literally. I think it's pretty "in-character" for the Buffyverse that society has kind of a blasé attitude to the supernatural and it's a nice parody of the superficial MTV generation. Sorry if I've been a little kurt or rude in my responses, but honestly I've heard these complaints a million times and they all seem to come from impatient fans who have an obvious dislike of the comic book medium. All we ever hear is "we have to wait a whole month?!?" Get over it. Season Eight has been coming out just as regularly as any other comic book series and is paced very well (Christ, did none of you follow Joss' Astonishing X-Men, talk about perspective). People need to stop approaching Season Eight as a television series and appreciate it for what it is; a long-term story that is going to several years to tell but will be well worth it in the end. couldn't of said it better myself
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Conor J Lopez
Innocent Bystander
Hum Yum Yang Yow[Mo0:26]
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Post by Conor J Lopez on Feb 22, 2009 18:36:10 GMT -5
1. The core three have had plenty development so far, and their arcs are ongoing. We're not going to get long scenes of the characters sitting around talking because the medium doesn't doesn't allow for that; a single scene of a television episode would fill up almost a whole issue. However, I pointed out in another thread all the fun little Scooby interactions moments we've had so far; they are there. 2. No offense, but this is such a dumb point. The writers aren't supposed to utilize and develop new characters? What if they'd never taken the time to develop Anya, Tara, and Spike? As for "Who cares about them?", quite a lot of people actually. Satsu is probably the most popular new character introduced in the comics, and Kennedy has become massively popular due to her appearances in Season Eight. I admit the issue was flawed, which I covered in the "Swell" thread, but your argument against it is ridiculous. 3. Big Bads typically don't do much until later in the season, and we're only approximately half-way through. "Who is Twilight" is not the only storyline happening in Season Eight. Just relax and let the story unfold. 4. Most of these "stupid things" are just light comic relief. The Dawn storyline is ongoing and I always expected it to span the majority of the season. #25 looks set to deliver some answers, again just relax and be patient. 5. The artwork has been great and George Jeanty has done some of the best actor likenesses I've seen while remaining dynamic and natural. It's not photorealistic and it isn't trying to be. 6. Amy was fair game, she never got a conclusion in the TV show. It's too early to brand her and Warren "pointless" because they're in cahoots with Twilight and will likely have a bigger role later in the season. Joss wouldn't have brought Warren back if he didn't have a plan for him. 7. This again? Buffy and Satsu was handled fine. Everything would have seemed "more real" on TV, because we would have seen actual human beings acting it out. But it's a comic, so get over it. Are you saying they should just "play it safe" and not take risks with the story? Because that's not Buffy. As for subtlety, Kennedy's not subtle and never has been. She's going to tell it straight, so to speak. 8. The whole "vamps are in" thing is clearly a social commentary and people are taking it way too literally. I think it's pretty "in-character" for the Buffyverse that society has kind of a blasé attitude to the supernatural and it's a nice parody of the superficial MTV generation. Sorry if I've been a little kurt or rude in my responses, but honestly I've heard these complaints a million times and they all seem to come from impatient fans who have an obvious dislike of the comic book medium. All we ever hear is "we have to wait a whole month?!?" Get over it. Season Eight has been coming out just as regularly as any other comic book series and is paced very well (Christ, did none of you follow Joss' Astonishing X-Men, talk about perspective). People need to stop approaching Season Eight as a television series and appreciate it for what it is; a long-term story that is going to several years to tell but will be well worth it in the end. Stop your whining and read this post. Lets face it, it puts all you S8 haters in your places and that is the truth of the matter.
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Post by CowboyGuy on Feb 22, 2009 18:49:45 GMT -5
This is a comic, and we all have to accept that. The medium does not allow for much along the lines of seeing the gang just hanging out and having a chill time. The pages are limited, and the writers have to keep the story going. For the most part, that does not include group pow wows anymore. So what we see are small glimpses into the core three's interactions...but if you think about it, we get interactions in every issue:
- Chinese takeout scene in ToYL - Issue 10 was all about Buffy/Willow as well as scenes with Xander/Dawn! - Issue 23 opens with a core three pow wow in the new conrol room - WatG had alot of Scooby time, as well as the traditional fight scenes with the whole group together fighting the baddies.
There are more, but these are what came to mind right now.
We have to remember that with the limited space, everything is there for a reason and we cannot have filler stuff anymore. It all is important!
Glory did hardly anything until the end of Season 5! So the Big Bad stuff shouldn't be playing a big factor for a few more issues anyway. I think Twilight has been the longest running villain for the series since he has been a menace since the very first issue, and that we knew about him...even though we hadn't seen him yet.
As for Dawn, Twilight's identity and other plot points...Issue 25 will make everyone happy.
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Post by Emmie on Feb 22, 2009 18:54:15 GMT -5
What he said. Well put, Phil.
And everybody let's try to be patient and respectful with each other here.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 22, 2009 18:59:23 GMT -5
I think they've been really good about inserting "little" character interaction moments in. It's just that the format requires these happen while other things are going on, not as separate scenes.
I was afraid that they would lose that aspect of BtVS, in fact, but I've been proven wrong.
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Post by CowboyGuy on Feb 22, 2009 19:01:58 GMT -5
I'm SURE that we will get alot of Scooby time once Oz comes back on the scene too. That situation just screams it to me.
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Joe
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Obsessive Paranoid Boob
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Post by Joe on Feb 22, 2009 20:38:58 GMT -5
I agree with Paul and Phil. They both made great points. We just gotta learn to adapt to comics. Season 8 ftw!
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Paul
Ensouled Vampire
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Post by Paul on Feb 22, 2009 20:39:41 GMT -5
I think they've been really good about inserting "little" character interaction moments in. It's just that the format requires these happen while other things are going on, not as separate scenes. I was afraid that they would lose that aspect of BtVS, in fact, but I've been proven wrong. Exactly, there have been loads of cute character moments between the Scoobies. I think S8 has been a lot better for that than AtF. Often, AtF simply tells you the relationship between the characters instead of showing you. For example, Connor says that Spike is like an uncle to him, instead of us actually seeing him acting like an uncle to him. Same with Connor/Gwen/Nina; Connor says that they're a "family", although we never see any memorable interaction between them. Buffy, on the other hand, has spent much more time focusing on the characters' relationships and emotional states.
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Post by VampSlayer on Feb 22, 2009 20:49:55 GMT -5
I can agree with a lot of the stuff written in the first post, sad to say.
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commandercool
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Post by commandercool on Feb 22, 2009 20:54:50 GMT -5
Hey, I like Kennedy. Ever time I open up a new issue, I think 'I want to see more Kennedy'. Sometimes I do. It's good.
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Paul
Ensouled Vampire
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Post by Paul on Feb 22, 2009 20:57:18 GMT -5
Hey, I like Kennedy. Ever time I open up a new issue, I think 'I want to see more Kennedy'. Sometimes I do. It's good. Karma.
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Mathieu
Ensouled Vampire
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Post by Mathieu on Feb 22, 2009 21:13:57 GMT -5
I am not a Season 8 hater. I guess I just needed to... "whine" a little bit because so many people seemed to find everything about S8 so awesome and at some point I guess I just wanted to scream out all the things that annoyed me.
And I agree with those who argue that it's just that I'm having a hard time adjusting to a new format I am not familiar with.
But I am indeed really looking forward to the Oz arc. I have great expectations for this one.
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Mathieu
Ensouled Vampire
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Post by Mathieu on Feb 22, 2009 21:18:29 GMT -5
I can agree with a lot of the stuff written in the first post, sad to say. Thanks for pointing out that my first post was not complete non-sense!! ;-)
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Post by VampSlayer on Feb 22, 2009 23:52:04 GMT -5
I can agree with a lot of the stuff written in the first post, sad to say. Thanks for pointing out that my first post was not complete non-sense!! ;-) You're very welcome.
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