|
Post by Emmie on Feb 26, 2009 18:15:03 GMT -5
Joss seemed to frown at tangents like After These Messages a bit, too, in a roundabout way, with his comment that he "feels like he's had a little less success keeping [Season 8] focused on where it needs to go [than the televised seasons]". He could also have been talking about "The Chain" and "No Future For You", since those stories are practically spin-offs and barely feature our core cast. He also said that the tangents were something they did on purpose as they explored the freedom of their new media, so I don't think he completely regrets them. I certainly don't. It was one issue. Of forty! Less fanservice and more focus is probably a good thing, but "After These Messages..." was a one-off and I just can't begrudge it's existence one-bit. Like "Hush" and "Once More, With Feeling", it felt like an experiment with the media, as it blurred the line between television and comic via the animated series. I'm not comparing it to the quality of those episodes, it certainly doesn't live up to them, but it was interesting nonetheless. The Chain couldn't be more textual because the "Buffy" hero is an avatar for what a heroic slayer should be and it is a direct comparison to the Season and the themes it explores (subjectivity of reality, truth, what makes a hero). NFFY and After These Messages are the stories I see as diverging from the main themes of the Season. NFFY features heavily on Faith-centric themes that are less related to the themes of Season 8, the thematic focus is about redemption while it does connect to Season 8 themes (abuse of power, justification of right through might and a cause) the main themes are all about Faith - it still gets closer though than #20 because there are direct story links to Twilight through Roden and the manipulation of Roden/Gigi versus Faith/Giles. After These Messages was literally a script lifted from Buffy: The Animated Series with a Season 8 frame, so it very much diverged also though tenuously relates to the main story by virtue of Buffy being "so stuck in the past, man." OMWF and Hush both worked heavily to move the story forward where as #20 just puttered along and changed nothing. I was hoping for some type of deeper revelation when Buffy viewed who she was compared to who she is now a la Pleasantville, but none was forthcoming. I still enjoy the sotry, but it was very much Buffy-lite. Just like the Animated Series was going to be.
|
|
Paul
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:34]
Posts: 1,173
|
Post by Paul on Feb 26, 2009 18:43:23 GMT -5
He could also have been talking about "The Chain" and "No Future For You", since those stories are practically spin-offs and barely feature our core cast. He also said that the tangents were something they did on purpose as they explored the freedom of their new media, so I don't think he completely regrets them. I certainly don't. It was one issue. Of forty! Less fanservice and more focus is probably a good thing, but "After These Messages..." was a one-off and I just can't begrudge it's existence one-bit. Like "Hush" and "Once More, With Feeling", it felt like an experiment with the media, as it blurred the line between television and comic via the animated series. I'm not comparing it to the quality of those episodes, it certainly doesn't live up to them, but it was interesting nonetheless. The Chain couldn't be more textual because the "Buffy" hero is an avatar for what a heroic slayer should be and it is a direct comparison to the Season and the themes it explores (subjectivity of reality, truth, what makes a hero). NFFY and After These Messages are the stories I see as diverging from the main themes of the Season. NFFY features heavily on Faith-centric themes that are less related to the themes of Season 8, the thematic focus is about redemption while it does connect to Season 8 themes (abuse of power, justification of right through might and a cause) the main themes are all about Faith - it still gets closer though than #20 because there are direct story links to Twilight through Roden and the manipulation of Roden/Gigi versus Faith/Giles. After These Messages was literally a script lifted from Buffy: The Animated Series with a Season 8 frame, so it very much diverged also though tenuously relates to the main story by virtue of Buffy being "so stuck in the past, man." OMWF and Hush both worked heavily to move the story forward where as #20 just puttered along and changed nothing. I was hoping for some type of deeper revelation when Buffy viewed who she was compared to who she is now a la Pleasantville, but none was forthcoming. I still enjoy the sotry, but it was very much Buffy-lite. Just like the Animated Series was going to be. Oh "The Chain" and "NFFY" are brilliant and totally in line with Season Eight's themes, not arguing that, I just meant that they step away from the main characters moreso than the TV series ever did. I know Joss is a fan of tight little casts (he was slagging off X3 for it's bloated team roster in a "that's not how I woulda done it" interview) so it's possible that's what he was talking about when he said it wasn't as focused as he'd have liked. Maybe not. Maybe I'm just pulling stuff out of my arse because I liked "After These Messages..." and want to defend it. Emmie's description of it as "Buffy-lite" is pretty accurate.
|
|
Mathieu
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,069
|
Post by Mathieu on Feb 26, 2009 18:51:54 GMT -5
Wait what? There was an episode planned where they go back in time to high school? Oh my god. How come I've never heard of this. Can someone give me an explanation with all the info we know about the would-be-awesome episode? I read this rumour on Wikipedia, where it has no source and is therefore very dodgy. However, it does seem fairly possible in light of "Normal Again", the Tales of the Slayer (the non-canon novels, not the canon comics) story written by Jane Espenson, and "After These Messages..." I don't know what the episode would have been, but the Tales story is called "Again, Sunnydale" and is set in season 6/season 3. I'm not certain it would have been quite that great an idea to take the Scoobies back to the past in a Season 6 episode. I mean time traveling is fun in the comic format but when you go down that path and have the characters time travel back and forth all the time, it gets kind of confusing up to the point when nothing makes sense anymore. I don't think it would fit well in BTVS, which in spite of being a show about vampires has always seemed very realistic when it came to the characters, with a clear timeline and all the consequences that brings. But I guess we'll never know, maybe it would have made for an awesome episode...
|
|
Whedon Fan
Ensouled Vampire
Joss Is Boss
Banner & Avatar Made By CBG[Mo0:3][Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,312
|
Post by Whedon Fan on Feb 26, 2009 19:33:02 GMT -5
I'm not certain it would have been quite that great an idea to take the Scoobies back to the past in a Season 6 episode. I mean time traveling is fun in the comic format but when you go down that path and have the characters time travel back and forth all the time, it gets kind of confusing up to the point when nothing makes sense anymore. *cough* Heroes.... At least it seems to be trying to mend the show this season though
|
|
Mathieu
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,069
|
Post by Mathieu on Feb 26, 2009 19:43:34 GMT -5
I'm not certain it would have been quite that great an idea to take the Scoobies back to the past in a Season 6 episode. I mean time traveling is fun in the comic format but when you go down that path and have the characters time travel back and forth all the time, it gets kind of confusing up to the point when nothing makes sense anymore. *cough* Heroes.... At least it seems to be trying to mend the show this season though I wasn't trying to refer to Heroes but now that you mention it... TOTALLY. Talking about jumping the shark, it's been ages since Heroes jumped the shark back in Season 1. They really got to the point where nothing makes sens any more in that show. They messed it all up. Add to that the incredible boredom... Are you serious when you say they're mending the show in season 3?? They might try to send things right but I wouldn't say they actually made things better. The whole thing is just pointless, nothing surprises us any more, it's just the same storylines over and over again. Anyway this discussion belongs to another part of the forum.
|
|
|
Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 26, 2009 20:26:06 GMT -5
I turned Heroes off the moment Sylar set fire to Elle, and haven't turned it back on since.
I am intensely thankful JW never allowed any of his creations to go so intensely off the rails. In season 8 a "bad issue" is one I only re-read 3 or 4 times.
|
|
alycat7
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
I don't wanna be this good looking and athletic. We all have crosses to bear - Spike[Mo0:4]
Posts: 752
|
Post by alycat7 on Feb 27, 2009 19:41:43 GMT -5
Im not disappointed by season 8, but I am getting bored.
|
|
El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
|
Post by El Diablo Robotico on Feb 28, 2009 17:09:03 GMT -5
Im not disappointed by season 8, but I am getting bored. I kind of agree with that. At the moment, anyway. ToYL was a let-down in terms of being more of a slow "character" piece than the action-packed extravaganza I expected, and then #'s 20 and 21 weren't anything special (I love Emmie's description of #20 being "Buffy-lite", which is very apt, and exactly why I have no interest in a cartoon set back in the HS days ). But I liked #22 a lot, and expect things to pick up again in the next few issues, and get my excitement level back up to the NFFY/WatG levels.
|
|
watcher
Novice Witch
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 211
|
Post by watcher on Feb 28, 2009 18:26:12 GMT -5
I agree with everything Mathieu said. Season 8 started out awesome but now, especially after the last issue I'm starting to care less and less. The whole Buffy in the future arc was pointless and boring...seriously what was the point to all of that? That entire arc could have been done in one single issue instead of dragged out into four separate uber boring issues. Don't get me started on the stand alone issues so far...Swell was so boring I couldn't read all of it...I could care less about Kennedy or Satsu.
|
|
Joe
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Obsessive Paranoid Boob
"Gypsies are filthy people! We shall speak of zem no more!" *spits* -Ilona Costa Bianchi[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2,786
|
Post by Joe on Feb 28, 2009 18:32:01 GMT -5
I expect a lot of people to enjoy the Oz arc as much as WatG and NFFY. WatG was my favorite. It had a great story with a lotta scooby-gang mission type scenes. I think the Oz arc will be like that. People didn't like ToYL because it feels rushed. People don't like the current arc because it doesn't revolve around Buffy. I think the next arc will make people like Season 8 again!
|
|
|
Post by henzINNIT on Feb 28, 2009 18:44:44 GMT -5
The whole Buffy in the future arc was pointless and boring...seriously what was the point to all of that? That entire arc could have been done in one single issue instead of dragged out into four separate uber boring issues. I agree with this. Those 4 issues are remarkably uneventful. Nothing much seems to happen in the future and the other stuff is just filler. Ironically the stand alone that accompanies it deals with similar subject matter and feels totally rushed (in pace not time spent on it). I think they should have shared out the 5 issue window much more fairly between the two plots.
|
|
|
Post by snizapman6294 on Feb 28, 2009 19:44:35 GMT -5
Im not disappointed by season 8, but I am getting bored. same... they either need to make the issues more interesting/longer, or they need to have some insane plot twist... now.
|
|
patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
|
Post by patxshand on Feb 28, 2009 22:11:07 GMT -5
There's no way it could be longer. I mean, 22 pages is the norm. I just think the series is moving a bit slow now because of the placement of this arc. It's an arc made up of thematically connected standalones, so the seasonal arc is moving very very slowly. I think this would have been great and would have maintained interest if it was placed after an exceptional arc like "Wolves at the Gate," but it came after "Time of Your Life" which had two weak middle issues and "After these Messages... We'll Be Right Back" which interrupted the flow of the story and the momentum that Joss's wonderful #19 had developed. I'm excited that things seem to be moving in the right direction, what with this next issue and #25 focusing on some long running ideas this season (#23 with Simone and #25 with Dawn's problem) and I'm excited to see what Faith and Giles are up to. It's just hard to still be excited about it when most of the weakest issues of the series are all clumped together with only #19 to break the flow of not-as-good-as-the-rest, but I have faith that #23 will revive the excitement I had for the series.
|
|
Mathieu
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,069
|
Post by Mathieu on Mar 6, 2009 11:05:31 GMT -5
By the way, I don't wanna be the leader of the Season 8 haters team but I'm glad some people agree with the things I brought up. I havent gotten a chance to read issue 23 yet but I'n looking forward to it and hope I won't be let down again.
|
|
|
Post by underworld on Mar 6, 2009 22:02:09 GMT -5
I've got to say that I agree with the comments others have made about the pacing of the plot. We're over two years in now and I feel as though we've hardly got to the real crux of the underlying story. Plus I feel that many of the arcs could really have been dealt with more succinctly (ie in a couple of issues rather than four). One of the reasons I love Angel ATF was that the story ripped along at a fair pace and each issue had enough going on to really maintain my attention. S8 seems to be meandering along.
I kind of feel that some of the issues raised in one arc (e.g. Buffy killing future Willow, the destruction of the Castle, even the popularity of the Vampires which is only mentioned really as a side note in issue 23) etc aren't really addressed fully - if at all - in the following arcs. I'm kind of hoping that the different threads that each arc has raised are addressed in the coming issues and that the Twilight plot and the effect of the Vampires becoming public knowledge is really brought to the fore soon.
Sorry to sound so negative, but I would have thought that the issue of dramatic impetus (or lack of it) in the comic would have been addressed by now. That's not to say that I haven't liked some of the individual arcs, I just feel that the overall pacing of the core story hasn't been managed effectively to really keep me interested.. Fingers crossed for the return of Faith, Giles and Oz to get things moving a-pace!
|
|
alycat7
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
I don't wanna be this good looking and athletic. We all have crosses to bear - Spike[Mo0:4]
Posts: 752
|
Post by alycat7 on Mar 6, 2009 22:24:46 GMT -5
Im not disappointed in season 8, I love it. All I know is that at first Buffy was better than Angel, but now it's vise-verse.
|
|
|
Post by Tyler Austin "tiewashere" on Mar 25, 2009 20:04:16 GMT -5
I'm not disappointed with season eight at all, either. Right now, the wait is the only thing annoying me. But once it is all finished, I'd rather have a nice long juicy story to read rather than an AFTER THE FALL which I can read in about two hours...not even.
I think I'm just disappointed, right now, with the whole "vampires going public". It was never really addressed. I'm sure my friends, who will read these issues without the wait, will be very confused at the whole vampires going public. If it wasn't for waiting, the solicitations, and talking with you guys I really wouldn't have picked up on it that quickly. It would have just seemed like a random, unneeded plot device (although I'm sure it has something to do with Twilight banning all the humans together against the slayers, but that's beside the point).
I'm sure once Predators and Prey are over and we hit the Oz arc, the story will move in full swing. I just wish these five issues would SOMEHOW move the main arc along. Yes, the weird pink-haired slayer is done and vampires have been made public, but I want shocks, twists, and revelations. Watching characters grow was fun on the television because it was actual people, but I'd much rather have plot and shocking moments and action when it comes to comics (unless they were 33 pages instead of 22).
Here's to hoping the next two issues bring Faith and Giles into the main story and that the Dawn stuff will be mentioned and discussed more. I've also heard some talk of #25 having some serious Twilight info, so I'm looking forward to that.
These last three issues have just been....lame?
It even seems like Phil has lost interest in the series considering a new issue button thing hasn't even been added to the navigation bar. Sigh.
|
|