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Post by richieshag89 on Jul 15, 2009 1:08:58 GMT -5
Off topic, but I just have to say I am swooning over your avatar richieshag89. I mentioned this "scene" in my post and now you have an icon of it. Pure awesomeness! **gives karma** well i gave you karma back for such great usage of the word swoon
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Skeptic
Initiative Soldier
[Mo0:24]
Posts: 344
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Post by Skeptic on Jul 18, 2009 16:39:29 GMT -5
The fact that in her dream Tara say's "I still blame you for my death" is, I think, very telling of the fact that Buffy does hold herself responsible for Tara's untimely demise. I guess that goes with the territory of being heroine and leader, feeling like everyone's life rests in your hands. I hope that in time Buffy will be able to forgive herself and let go of some of the guilt. I always wondered if Buffy blamed herself for what happened with Tara and I guess now I have my answer. The sad thing is, we know that Willow kinda blames Buffy too. What I noticed also is that, with where Tara is standing, you're not sure if she's saying this to Willow, or directly to Buffy, or to them both, or to Warren, or to DarkWillow, or all 4, or what. Where she's standing is soooo intentional. You know Joss probably had a little thrill at the idea. The key thing to remember, though, is that this is Buffy's dream, so Buffy's head put Tara there, and thus it is Buffy that doesn't know who Tara blames for her death. But if you ask me, the very fact that she stuck Tara in there and made her say that, says that she at least is asking herself if she's at fault.
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Marcos
Novice Witch
Define "human".[Mo0:30]
Posts: 210
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Post by Marcos on Jul 19, 2009 20:34:44 GMT -5
The fact that in her dream Tara say's "I still blame you for my death" is, I think, very telling of the fact that Buffy does hold herself responsible for Tara's untimely demise. I guess that goes with the territory of being heroine and leader, feeling like everyone's life rests in your hands. I hope that in time Buffy will be able to forgive herself and let go of some of the guilt. I always wondered if Buffy blamed herself for what happened with Tara and I guess now I have my answer. The sad thing is, we know that Willow kinda blames Buffy too. What I noticed also is that, with where Tara is standing, you're not sure if she's saying this to Willow, or directly to Buffy, or to them both, or to Warren, or to DarkWillow, or all 4, or what. Where she's standing is soooo intentional. You know Joss probably had a little thrill at the idea. The key thing to remember, though, is that this is Buffy's dream, so Buffy's head put Tara there, and thus it is Buffy that doesn't know who Tara blames for her death. But if you ask me, the very fact that she stuck Tara in there and made her say that, says that she at least is asking herself if she's at fault. It's curious how much Always Darkest relates to Anywhere but Here. The initial scene is the same future vision we see in ABH, and the thing with Tara was one of the major emotional conflicts in ABH, when Willow reveals to Buffy that Tara's death only ocurred because Buffy was brought back to life. Will says it was her own fault, but I wonder if Buffy feels somehow responsible too. Or maybe it's the most obvious alternative: in Buffy's dream, Tara was actually talking to Warren.
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Post by Rebecca on Jul 20, 2009 0:17:03 GMT -5
Just saw this. Read Emmie's meta on it which catches every nuance of the three-pager, a must read. You can find it here for those who haven't read it yet.
The scene straight from Anywhere But Here, with Buffy broken and splayed on the ground from a "betrayal, the closest, the most unexpected" was definitely a surprise. When Caleb says "You can't kill what's inside you" in the betrayal-room, something about it makes me think that she denying her darkness will be the betrayal to herself (just as Emmie has previously said). I love the idea of Buffy betraying herself. Prophecies are always right in sci-fi, but they never materialize the way you first think it will. The opening frame represents her future, beaten and betrayed. The second half of the first and then second page represents her present: very confused, guilty, and uncertain. The cameos in the third page represent her past, everything that has led her to this point. You'll also notice that no one is stopping this atrocity from happening, even herself "totally" for it, with her two past lovers going at it off-screen. Then we see her in the present again, even more disconnected. I think all in all, we see inside Buffy's noggin the effect that Twilight had targeted: denying her of her moral certainty. She feels emotionally alone and quite obviously feeling guilty for a number of transgressions, most of which were out of her control (a very human condition). Worst of all, she feels like she is on a dark path with no one there to fight for her, not even herself. This coming out just before Retreat I think was not a coincidence. I see her retreating to Tibet to "kill what is inside of her" as denying the darkness that comes from being the slayer, and ultimately create a rift between her and Willow. I have an idea that Buffy may eventually decide that demons and magick (including the slayer power) needs to be banished from this dimension altogether, one-upping Chosen, and proving Caleb!Twilight wrong: that she can kill what is inside of her. This would lead to Future Willow and the scenes we saw in Fray, including the one frame with a female hand with a tentacle around the wrist reaching out from a closing portal. I think this is Willow, with the slayer magicks and other demon magicks inside her now. She would live on in another dimension for a few hundred years until she came back, and with Future Willow so comes Melaka's calling. This would account for why Buffy would need to kill Future Willow with the scythe; it may very well have been the only way for her to die. The banishment of all magicks would also leave Buffy powerless, and very well could leave her in the shape we see her in the "betrayal" scene, with some unwitting foe battling the now-weakened and self-betrayed Buffy. EDIT: Sorry for wall-of-text
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Post by diabeticdude202 on Jul 20, 2009 6:35:29 GMT -5
Okay so I've been re-thinking about the whole of season 8 and this comic itself. The saying "It's always Darkest Before the Dawn" doesn't necessarily mean that its related to Dawn, nor does the whole Twilight fiasco. In fact, Dawn means "The beginning" or "Rise" of something! And, Twilight is the time between the change of two things; sundown to nightfall, night to sunrise, for example.
Always Darkest before the Dawn = It's always darkest before the beginning.
This means that between the seventh and ninth season (season eight) everything will be dark, or a lot of bad things are gonna happen. So, at what first made me think "Dawn Summers" may most likely mean "The Beginning". This leaves several questions relating to:
-Who survives? -Who will be forever changed? -What will be "The New Beginning" -Is there something out there that Twilight is working for, or to bring forth. -Will the Fray universe be changed, ergo, the NEW BEGINNING causing that change. -Will the Slayers be de-powered.
Think about it. I know I will.
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Marcos
Novice Witch
Define "human".[Mo0:30]
Posts: 210
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Post by Marcos on Jul 22, 2009 16:21:30 GMT -5
Just saw this. Read Emmie's meta on it which catches every nuance of the three-pager, a must read. You can find it here for those who haven't read it yet.
The scene straight from Anywhere But Here, with Buffy broken and splayed on the ground from a "betrayal, the closest, the most unexpected" was definitely a surprise. When Caleb says "You can't kill what's inside you" in the betrayal-room, something about it make makes me think that she denying her darkness will be the betrayal to herself (just as Emmie has previously said). I love the idea of Buffy betraying herself. Prophecies are always right in sci-fi, but they never materialize the way you first think it will. The opening frame represents her future, beaten and betrayed. The second half of the first and then middle page represents her present: very confused, guilty, and uncertain. The cameos in the third page represent her past, everything that has led her to this point. You'll also notice that no one is stopping this atrocity from happening, even herself "totally" for it, with her two past lovers going at it off-screen. Then we see her in the present again, even more disconnected. I think all in all, we see inside Buffy's noggin the effect that Twilight had targeted: denying her of her moral certainty. She feels emotionally alone and quite obviously feeling guilty for a number of transgressions, most of which were out of her control (a very human condition). Worst of all, she feels like she is on a dark path with no one there to fight for her, not even herself. This coming out just before Retreat I think was not a coincidence. I see her retreating to Tibet to "kill what is inside of her" as denying the darkness that comes from being the slayer, and ultimately create a rift between her and Willow. I have an idea that Buffy may eventually decide that demons and magick (including the slayer power) needs to be banished from this dimension altogether, one-upping Chosen, and proving Caleb!Twilight wrong: that she can kill what is inside of her. This would lead to Future Willow and the scenes we saw in Fray, including the one frame with a female hand with a tentacle around the wrist reaching out from a closing portal. I think this is Willow, with the slayer magicks and other demon magicks inside her now. She would live on in another dimension for a few hundred years until she came back, and with Future Willow so comes Melaka's calling. This would account for why Buffy would need to kill Future Willow with the scythe; it may very well have been the only way for her to die. The banishment of all magicks would also leave Buffy powerless, and very well could leave her in the shape we see her in the "betrayal" scene, with some unwitting foe battling the now-weakened and self-betrayed Buffy. I don't know who I love the most... Freud, for letting us know that underneath every dream lies a deeper truth... Joss, for doing it so masterfully (really, this guy can't exist)... Emmie, for "getting" the message in a way I had not... ...or you, Rebecca, for getting the puzzle together to give us a damn perfect theory on the whole concept of the season, of what's coming, and how it relates to the Fraypocalypse (in a second thought, I think I actually hate you for that, you spoilergal LOL just kidding, hon) *karma* for you all
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