Unpopular rants,opinions and confessions

[Paul]

Sept 3, 2010 12:22:24 GMT -5 tkts said:

Sept 2, 2010 22:03:03 GMT -5 orangejuicepony said:

People don't like the master? I thought he was amusing.

The Master would have been a disappointment in subsequent seasons -- pretty much one-dimensional, "Blah, blah, look at me, I'm sealed evil in a can, and as soon as I escape this prison I will rule the world, mwa ha ha ha ha" -- but he worked for Season 1. First because the season was short and really didn't allow time for a lot of elaborate plots, and second because we were just getting to know the protagonists and didn't need a lot of character development for a complex villain at the same time.

Agreed. The Master was a good villain for season one. All Buffy really needed at that point in the series was a big scary vampire to fight. Plus I think his dry sense of humour made him quite entertaining and stopped him from being too one-dimensional.

[Astray]

Sept 3, 2010 11:00:55 GMT -5 wenxina said:

Sept 2, 2010 23:20:05 GMT -5 Astray said:

I didn't think he was so bad, especially for Buffy's first big bad. At least he had a personality, unlike Adam.

Adam wasn't supposed to have a personality. It's kinda ironic, since he's a composite of so many beings, and yet, he isn't any. Adam kinda served as the manifestation of one of the major themes of S4: identity. He didn't know who or what he was at first. Hence, his whole need to understand by dissecting, which is a very reductionist way of looking at things (i.e. science). The only problem with that is that personality and issues like the soul aren't easy to tackle with a reductionist method.
But I digress... my point was, I think Adam gets a bad rep that's kinda undeserved because his entire character makes sense in a sorta metaview of S4.

Good points, I really never thought of Adam and the "identity theme". Adam definitely had some good points, the merging of evil and science was interesting. I just think it dragged on too long, and he never seemed to be that much of a threat. Maybe if he landed one of the scoobies in the hospital or killed someone, he would have seemed more scary.

@"Blah, blah, look at me, I'm sealed evil in a can"

[Paul]

Sept 3, 2010 17:01:19 GMT -5 Astray said:

Sept 3, 2010 11:00:55 GMT -5 wenxina said:

Adam wasn't supposed to have a personality. It's kinda ironic, since he's a composite of so many beings, and yet, he isn't any. Adam kinda served as the manifestation of one of the major themes of S4: identity. He didn't know who or what he was at first. Hence, his whole need to understand by dissecting, which is a very reductionist way of looking at things (i.e. science). The only problem with that is that personality and issues like the soul aren't easy to tackle with a reductionist method.
But I digress... my point was, I think Adam gets a bad rep that's kinda undeserved because his entire character makes sense in a sorta metaview of S4.

Good points, I really never thought of Adam and the "identity theme". Adam definitely had some good points, the merging of evil and science was interesting. I just think it dragged on too long, and he never seemed to be that much of a threat. Maybe if he landed one of the scoobies in the hospital or killed someone, he would have seemed more scary.

@"Blah, blah, look at me, I'm sealed evil in a can"

Adam wasn't bad (although his SFX could have been better... he looks a little bit like a homemade Halloween costume) but he didn't really have enough depth to be the Big Bad.

The way I understand it, Maggie Walsh was supposed to be the Big Bad until the actress pulled out. She would have been a much stronger enemy for Buffy from a story perspective, since Buffy has no emotional attachment to Adam. Adam would still have worked as Maggie's henchman, and a physical threat to Buffy.

I think it was a bit sad seeing Maggie reduced to a zombie cameo in "Primeval", after the season spent so much time fleshing out her character.

[henzINNIT]

Sept 3, 2010 11:00:55 GMT -5 wenxina said:

Sept 2, 2010 23:20:05 GMT -5 Astray said:

I didn't think he was so bad, especially for Buffy's first big bad. At least he had a personality, unlike Adam.

Adam wasn't supposed to have a personality. It's kinda ironic, since he's a composite of so many beings, and yet, he isn't any. Adam kinda served as the manifestation of one of the major themes of S4: identity. He didn't know who or what he was at first. Hence, his whole need to understand by dissecting, which is a very reductionist way of looking at things (i.e. science). The only problem with that is that personality and issues like the soul aren't easy to tackle with a reductionist method.
But I digress... my point was, I think Adam gets a bad rep that's kinda undeserved because his entire character makes sense in a sorta metaview of S4.

Nicely put. He was also a culmination of the Initiative's meddling, which would have come later on in the season had Maggie Walsh stuck around. Unfortunately the actress had to move on and Adam's arrival was moved up. His arc lost steam and tension.

[astranger]

I always though Adam himself was a good villain. But I was always confused as to his overall goal and motive. I know he was trying to create demon human machine hybrids, but its not explained why, or what he intends to do with them.

I just think that he should have been played differently. There is nothing wrong with a villain that is just a personal threat. They don't all have to try to take over the world. It also didn't seem like something Adam would be interested in doing.

Edit: About the Master. It's worth noting that he's the only Big Bad to actually kill Buffy. And to prove it wasn't a fluke, in the Wish he does it again.

[outofphase]

That's a good point. He does kill her twice. But the mouth. I mean ok. You're a smart vampire- smart enough to live for hundreds of years longer than everyone else. You've done your vampie thing and kills a megaload of people, sired a bunch of babie vamps and started a following. Your reward is a punchbowl mouth? Really? That just doesn't seem like a fair trade to me.

[henzINNIT]

I always assumed that The Master's looks have become so dramatic because he always wears his game face.

[orangejuicepony]

I always thought that maybe his mouth had been stained red after all the centuries of killing he's done... perhaps he was a messy eater.

[Scarygothgirl]

His nose was very pink as well... Were the Uber-vamps based on him? I know they were based on the grr arg thing, but there's definately some simaleraities in appearance.

[Skytteflickan88]

@ henz

Yeah, I assumed that his face got stuck that way after a while, and in the beginning he had a normal vampire face, but he got paler, bald and more deformed due to staying in vamp face. Could explain what you said in that other thread, about him being to ugly so fast, even when he was "young".

[Astray]

That's interesting. I never knew Maggie Walsh's actress pulled out, that actually explains a lot I guess.

For the record, I don't mind "punchbowl mouth".

[Randi Giles]

I didn't know that either. Maybe that's why she turned so evil.

[Eric]

Sept 2, 2010 21:55:17 GMT -5 lightandmagic said:

I'ma go out on a limb and say that The Master in general is just a terribly written villain. He's just so cliche and lame. I know whenever I watch Season 1 and he comes on screen I just get annoyed because he's just so damn lame. By and far my least favourite Big Bad of not only Buffy but pretty much every television show ever. He's just so ... blah.


On another note; Season 8 spoilers:

SPOILER: Click to show

Hence even further disappointment in Season 8 when he's somehow back alive and attempting to be a major threat again. Man I hope it's the First and not actually the Master. KEEP DEAD THINGS DEAD. NO ONE LIKES HIM.

Sept 2, 2010 22:10:54 GMT -5 outofphase said:

... that spoiler was actually spoilerific. I am spoiled. i am so sad. i was trying so hard toooo. >.<

it's not that i don't like the master, it's really just the punchbowl mouth. ...and the leather.

#36 spoilers:

SPOILER: Click to show

So, wait. The Master is in S8? I haven't gotten a chance to read #36 yet. I didn't even read your spoiler, lightandmagic. You guys could have concealed that better.

[Darth Rosie]

Sept 4, 2010 18:07:30 GMT -5 Astray said:

That's interesting. I never knew Maggie Walsh's actress pulled out, that actually explains a lot I guess.

Is this confirmed information? I made some quick research but couldn't find anything on Lindsey Crouse pulling out. Any of you know that?

I wish Maggie Walsh had not been killed off - and to rant a little: I wish she had not returned as a Zombie. It was sad to see that.

[Skytteflickan88]

I think it was so creepy to see her as a zombie.

I'm not sure if I like or dislike that she might have been planned to be the villain. I think she was around long enough, but she might have been more entertaining than Adam, since she seems much more complex. She could have been a big emotional threat to both Buffy & Riley. Maybe she went super-evil because she felt Buffy had wronged her.

[midwesternwatcher]

I rather liked The Master. He was a good villain in the campy style. I thought his moment of victory at the end of season 1 was extremely effective, among the best moments in the series.

Absolutely, it was a mistake to kill off Maggie Walsh. It's painful to think of all that could've been done with her, if she were still alive, especially if Buffy could've been kept in the dark about her a few episodes longer. She could've been a "double agent."

Say ... is this thread getting too long? Could we close it out, start again?

[Skytteflickan88]

^^ It's only 18 pages. If we made 2.0 versions of threads this short, we'd have like a zillion What's Up threads by now.

[outofphase]

...I bet Maggie will be brought back in some way, at some point.

[Randi Giles]

I don't want to say I don't get the Glory love cause she was a step up from Adam. I do think she's slightly overrated though. If I had to list my favorite top Big Bad she would be midway through higher than The First and Adam.

[orangejuicepony]

I liked Glory about half of the time, the other half, I found her horribly annoying.