47kwest
Potential Slayer
"This is where the fun begins!"[Mo0:37]
Posts: 120
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Post by 47kwest on Nov 10, 2010 4:00:43 GMT -5
Ahh that's totally cool, no need for apology, kinda secretly hoping you were James. But whomever you are, that's great too. Heck my husband is fluent in three languages, can swear in twelve, and I'm only somewhat decent at one. And that's why I asked. Really not James?
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zamolxis
Novice Witch
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 210
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Post by zamolxis on Nov 10, 2010 4:14:44 GMT -5
No. Not even same sex or eyes color.
Speaking of #38, the army was camping in or near the Sunnydale crater since The Long Way Home. Were they looking for the Seed from the beginning? Was The Master playing hide and seek with the army? And when did Twilight picked Angel and the Seed resurrected the Master: after Chosen, after NFA, after AtF?
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47kwest
Potential Slayer
"This is where the fun begins!"[Mo0:37]
Posts: 120
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Post by 47kwest on Nov 10, 2010 4:26:32 GMT -5
I think yes, army was there. Not sure about looking for seed because I don't think Twilight/Angel would have tipped them off to the specifics. Last question too hard to pin down. I do not think those answers are out there yet. At least not definitively. But I could absolutely be wrong in having missed something.
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moscowwatcher
Potential Slayer
You're the one, Buffy[Mo0:0]
Posts: 106
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Post by moscowwatcher on Nov 10, 2010 6:57:56 GMT -5
Just curious, you wrote Spike rather than Spike's. Did you mean it to be non possessive? I only ask because that speaks volumes to how people feel about these characters. I think I'd make the same mistake. Because I tend to repeat Buffy's speech patterns. In "Something Blue" she says "Spike lips! Lips of Spike". I admit, I don't "feel" the nuance. Why it's okay for James Marsters to say "Spike eyes", bit it's not okay for me? Back to the issue #38 and the art: I think Jeanty's art grew on me. At the beginning it felt like reducing the characters to two-dimensional caricatures on themselves; but, gradually, I got used to Buffy looking differently. To be fair, Jeanty draws Angel and Spike very well. Angel looks a bit too young and edward-esque to my taste, but maybe that was the plan.
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Post by Mr. Savath Bunny on Nov 10, 2010 10:31:20 GMT -5
I got used to Buffy looking differently. To be fair, Jeanty draws Angel and Spike very well. Angel looks a bit too young and edward-esque to my taste, but maybe that was the plan. I was the same, I've remember even the old Buffy comics and I enjoyed the art in them... but it seemed lackluster because of the 2-D-ness. I like Jeanty's take on the cast and I love Michelle Madsen’s colors (very astatically pleasing IMO). In "looks" I think Angel and Spike look really good... and in the form of art they can't/won't age (or struggle with weight gain, poor chubby Angel in season 5). I admit David Boreanaz looks phenomenal on Bones, but he looks like he's in his 40's. He couldn't keep playing Angel, and James Marster is 50 this year. So I think moving into comic form can only help the show now... I do admit that SMG is absolutely beautiful in the series, I think her eyes, skin, hair… it was all working for her. The comic Buffy is “cute” but I don’t see the flawless beauty it could be. I know Buffy doesn’t necessarily need to look like SMG, but I think Buffy being so pretty really helped in the recipe of the show. We have our shiny writers back, we have Joss’s awesome dialogue… but I miss the “pretty” aspect of the women. Look at Eliza in Dollhouse - beautiful, even Michelle Trachtenberg has transformed into a beautiful girl (Dawn was too teeny-bopper in the actual show to make me ever see her as sexy, but nowadays she’s really grown up)…. I also wanna clarify that I’m a homo so I’m not looking for ridiculous waste sizes, huge boobs (Jo Chen!), or unrealistic expectations like a J. Scott Campbell calendar spread, but I miss seeing Buffy as something so pretty that I find myself unable to look away. I might be crazy, but that’s where the comic falls short for me.
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moscowwatcher
Potential Slayer
You're the one, Buffy[Mo0:0]
Posts: 106
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Post by moscowwatcher on Nov 10, 2010 14:41:36 GMT -5
Oh, yes! The problem of actors aging and changing is solved, so Joss can go on telling his vampire tales as long as he wants. I admit, I still have a girlcrush on Buffy. Especially in later seasons. She is beautiful with a sad, ethereal beauty of a person who has seen a lot of horrors but kept her soul pure. I miss this quality on comics - although sometimes Jeanty manages to draw incredibly touching panels.
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47kwest
Potential Slayer
"This is where the fun begins!"[Mo0:37]
Posts: 120
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Post by 47kwest on Nov 10, 2010 14:54:51 GMT -5
Just curious, you wrote Spike rather than Spike's. Did you mean it to be non possessive? I only ask because that speaks volumes to how people feel about these characters. I think I'd make the same mistake. Because I tend to repeat Buffy's speech patterns. In "Something Blue" she says "Spike lips! Lips of Spike". I admit, I don't "feel" the nuance. Why it's okay for James Marsters to say "Spike eyes", bit it's not okay for me? I Back to the issue #38 and the art: I think Jeanty's art grew on me. At the beginning it felt like reducing the characters to two-dimensional caricatures on themselves; but, gradually, I got used to Buffy looking differently. To be fair, Jeanty draws Angel and Spike very well. Angel looks a bit too young and edward-esque to my taste, but maybe that was the plan. The phrase is grammatically incorrect. Spike should be singular possessive; referring to the eyes of Spike. Spike in the phrase is used an an adjective. Also it depends on what you intend to say. If, for instance you intend to speak of the eyes of the character Spike, you would make it possesive. If, however, you are speaking of all "Spikes" in the world you would be grammatically correct. As we, the viewer can know of only one Spike it must, therefore, be possessive. Or they are eyes made of spikes which are blue. In my opinion, it would be okay for James to say it because Spike is used as an adjective not a noun. And they are his eyes. He is not Spike. It is separate from himself. Not tangible. So he would not see Spike as a thing but a state of being, thus an adjective. Think of the phrase "self-aware", it is a state of being, but also an adjective. Plus how funny would that be if it were him. I bet they get on here all the time to see what we are saying about them. It would be too tempting not to. I did not mean for this to turn into an English lesson. I am no expert. The phrase was incorrect and I wasn't sure if it was intended to be. Buffy speak is a real thing, but not necessarily the right thing.That's all. If I offended anyone it was not my intention. Zamolxis wrote it was a grammar issue because English is a second language for her. That's all. Sorry Zamolxis, this is not about you or what you wrote. I was asked a question, and I answered it. Again that's all.
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moscowwatcher
Potential Slayer
You're the one, Buffy[Mo0:0]
Posts: 106
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Post by moscowwatcher on Nov 10, 2010 16:22:25 GMT -5
Hey, 47kwest - *waves* Thank you very much for your explanation. I often use words and word combinations intuitively, and sometimes I make mistakes. What I love about about the fandom - that people know a lot and readily share with fellow fans. When I write fanfics, my beta always explains me my mistakes and helps me to make my text better. I think I understand now why it's okay for James Marsters to say "Spike eyes", bit it's not okay for me.
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47kwest
Potential Slayer
"This is where the fun begins!"[Mo0:37]
Posts: 120
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Post by 47kwest on Nov 10, 2010 19:34:33 GMT -5
Waves back Moscowwatcher. You know, way off topic, but anyone who takes on learning a new language should be applauded. Especially when it involves a different alphabet or characters. I watched my husband go through it in college. People were so nice and helpful to him. In Spanish the word for years like" how many years old are you?" is very close in pronunciation to the word for anus. So he would confuse the words and go around saying he had 27 anuses. It what really funny, and no one was ever mean to him about it. So you keep on learning, even as a native speaker, I am wrong a lot. English Hard, Russian Harder.
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juniorwatcher
Potential Slayer
There's that word again, what you are, how you'll die...alone. - The First[Mo0:0]
Posts: 131
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Post by juniorwatcher on Nov 11, 2010 15:34:52 GMT -5
Honestly, as a Buffy fan from the beginning, just want Buffy Season 8 to be over. I really just want Season Eight to end. I'm sick of all the absurdity, the mystery, the secrets, the OOC-ness. I want Season 8 DONE. And the scoobies back together.
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kwithanh
Innocent Bystander
Mostly a lurker[Mo0:0]
Posts: 12
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Post by kwithanh on Nov 11, 2010 18:51:22 GMT -5
I agree, I kind of wish I could fast forward and just see the end (although I am the kind of person who likes to be spoiled and reads the end of the book). I like Season 8, but it's been YEARS now, and I'm ready to see it over. I want to see how it ends.
Side note: does anyone know if season 8 will be collected in an omnibus when it's all over?
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Post by arcaneweirdo on Nov 14, 2010 15:17:13 GMT -5
Side note: does anyone know if season 8 will be collected in an omnibus when it's all over? Here´s hoping. The´ll re-release it no doubt, but I think in seperate hardcovers with a lot of extras rather than one extremely thick super-amazing-big-huge-cool-wow-WTF-omnibus-complete-collection-thingy
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Nov 14, 2010 16:53:22 GMT -5
Scott has mentioned a plan to release the series as either two or four hardcover volumes.
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Post by Emmie on Nov 17, 2010 23:30:05 GMT -5
I think it is very sad that so many people have to judge and bully the creative people behind this venture..i.e. Jo Chen had to repaint Spike's eye color because they were brown instead of green. Really? My goodness people cut them some slack!! Late to this comment, but well it relates to me so I tagged myself in. No one bullied Jo Chen. I and a few others posted on a fan forum about how Chen got the eye color wrong and we wished it was blue and that it was surprising how she got it wrong. That criticism was made in fan space. Chen was the one who got upset by it because she made a fairly simple mistake. Nobody asked her to fix it. She did it herself presumably because she's a perfectionist and she wanted to get it right. If Chen messes up on a likeness, I'm going to say so. Discussing art isn't about being nice--it's about discussing ART. So I don't think there's any need to chill. As long as people are taking about art and not Chen or Jeanty's personal character, then it's all fair game. This is a fan forum. Freedom of speech to discuss art at all times. And I'm going to get my Grr Face if I hear people suggesting others need to stop critiquing art because it's not "nice".
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The Night Lord
Wise-cracking Sidekick
The Long Kiss Goodnight
There can be no love. Only pain exists[Mo0:1]
Posts: 2,654
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Post by The Night Lord on Nov 18, 2010 3:10:30 GMT -5
^ And believe me, she has a scary 'Grr Face'
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Post by CowboyGuy on Nov 18, 2010 3:58:04 GMT -5
I think it is very sad that so many people have to judge and bully the creative people behind this venture..i.e. Jo Chen had to repaint Spike's eye color because they were brown instead of green. Really? My goodness people cut them some slack!! Late to this comment, but well it relates to me so I tagged myself in. No one bullied Jo Chen. I and a few others posted on a fan forum about how Chen got the eye color wrong and we wished it was blue and that it was surprising how she got it wrong. That criticism was made in fan space. Chen was the one who got upset by it because she made a fairly simple mistake. Nobody asked her to fix it. She did it herself presumably because she's a perfectionist and she wanted to get it right. If Chen messes up on a likeness, I'm going to say so. Discussing art isn't about being nice--it's about discussing ART. So I don't think there's any need to chill. As long as people are taking about art and not Chen or Jeanty's personal character, then it's all fair game. This is a fan forum. Freedom of speech to discuss art at all times. And I'm going to get my Grr Face if I hear people suggesting others need to stop critiquing art because it's not "nice". Late too. But agreed with Em. There is nothing wrong in critiquing art! That's the point of art. Creative expression will never be enjoyed by all. Love it, or hate it. And with that said, I want to add that someone who is hired to create comic book covers based on characters in a dead television show, it's not too much to ask that they get details such as eye-color right! We've waited years for a Spike cover, it shouldn't be that hard to get it right...especially when it's been proven that her caricatures have been taken direct from screencaps in the past.
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Shane
Potential Slayer
I saw a baby today.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 135
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Post by Shane on Nov 18, 2010 11:31:52 GMT -5
I think it is very sad that so many people have to judge and bully the creative people behind this venture..i.e. Jo Chen had to repaint Spike's eye color because they were brown instead of green. Really? My goodness people cut them some slack!! [...]If Chen messes up on a likeness, I'm going to say so. Discussing art isn't about being nice--it's about discussing ART. So I don't think there's any need to chill. As long as people are taking about art and not Chen or Jeanty's personal character, then it's all fair game.[...] Okay either I've been doing something very wrong or I'm slightly misunderstanding you. Because I don't think I disagree. If by "personal character" (I don't know exactly what that covers) you meant something like "personal space" then I agree. I have a slightly different stance on "personal views" though. (This is more of an extension into the writer–reader relationship.) I don't think the creators' personal biases have bled into these comics—I only recently found out Scott may be pro-Bangel—but something akin to Marvel's Tea Party controversy would be a different matter altogether. Because some things are too big to just accept as established wisdom (or, conversely, nonsense) going forward, regardless of political leanings, nationality, etc. Joss has gone on record about some of his views and I don't think I can really appreciate any of his work without judging at least some parts of it based on these views and whatever little information I have about them. It would be a bit too much to scrutinise him over every small aspect of his beliefs as just a fan, especially given my limited knowledge of them, but I'd like to have the option to say something about it in a short, general, maybe snarky and/or rhetorical (and hopefully non-controversial) "How can Joss & Co. be okay with this?" kind of way. If it's not offensive then I'll very likely be promptly corrected, right? Of course, I don't think it's going to happen in Buffy but some of the messages aren't very clear at the moment. At least not to me—too many wh-questions left unanswered. But a lot of in-between things about the writers will always be debatable, at least if it's not about specific cases. So while I don't think Spike's eye colour is *that* important, I don't think it's *not* important either, especially in the context of art and especially if it's part of Chen's cover. And I'm not even a dedicated Spike fan! I wouldn't have voiced my concerns about it but I'm glad others did. My bookcase looks better now. (Well, the box in my granddad's garage marked "Twitter Manuals" does, but anyway...) Thanks for that.
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Paul
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:34]
Posts: 1,173
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Post by Paul on Nov 18, 2010 13:30:43 GMT -5
While I agree with Emmie about freedom of speech, why do the colour of Spike's eyes even matter? It's not like they're some iconic feature... he's not, say, Gambit or someone who's eye colour is a signature of their character.
Marvel characters have canonical eye colours, as recorded in the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe. But most colourists just exert artistic license and I have to say I never notice unless it's pointed out.
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Post by Emmie on Nov 18, 2010 13:50:44 GMT -5
LOL @ The Night Lord. Yes, this is me = And here's how I see it, Paul. Spike's eyes are blue. Maybe some people didn't notice, but it's very obvious (it's a striking feature). And I think they're pretty iconic to his character. He has a scar on his eyebrow from fighting a Slayer during the Boxer rebellion, he has cutting cheekbones, platinum blond hair, and blue eyes. Those are the basic features of Spike's face. Brown eyes make him look different. Would anyone find it weird if Angel suddenly had blue eyes? Why would that matter? Or hey how about that Jeanty/Madsen (really Madsen since she colored) got Spike's eye color right in the pages but Chen got it wrong on the cover? I get that Marvel artists have leeway, but this is a licensed comic with character design based on actors. It takes all of two seconds to know that Spike/JM has blue eyes. And just like I don't like it when Willow suddenly gets stacked, I don't like it when the eye color is changed not due to artistic license but because it was a mistake. Actually, IIRC, Chen asked Allie for confirmation and he immediately went "yeah his eyes are blue" and she was all "why didn't you tell me that?" I get the sense that Chen likes to get it right and that's why she fixed it. So that's another reason why it matters--everyone considered the brown eyes a mistake, even Chen herself. Also, Chen does a weird mashup of stylized photo realism, but one of the major features is her likenesses. It matters more when Chen misses the likeness boat because she's actually trying to get them just right.
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Paul
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:34]
Posts: 1,173
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Post by Paul on Nov 18, 2010 14:23:00 GMT -5
Brown eyes make him look different. Would anyone find it weird if Angel suddenly had blue eyes? Why would that matter? Um... no? Not to me. I couldn't tell you what colour eyes Angel has. I couldn't even tell you what colour eyes my friends have. It's not something I pay attention to, in fiction or real life. I get that Marvel artists have leeway, but this is a licensed comic with character design based on actors. It takes all of two seconds to know that Spike/JM has blue eyes. And just like I don't like it when Willow suddenly gets stacked, I don't like it when the eye color is changed not due to artistic license but because it was a mistake. I don't see a difference, but then I'm not someone who cares about actor likenesses. I don't care if Cyclops looks different in different comics, it's two equally valid interpretations. Equally, I don't care if Spike looks like James Marsters... if he looks like Spike, then details like eye colour are irrelevant to me. It only bothers me if the interpretation is wildly out of character, like Kate in "Aftermath". Someone posted an essay thingie a while back which compared the various visual representations of Buffy and which features were crucial to the character. They asked whether Buffy and SMG have the exact same features, or if SMG is merely a representation of the character's defining features (blonde hair, petite build, etc). It was interesting, whatever your stance.
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