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Post by Mr. Savath Bunny on Nov 18, 2010 15:07:39 GMT -5
I get SO bugged when eye colors don't match the characters from the series. In a few of the IDW issues Angel is shown with blue eyes and it drives me NUTS! I like the little things like “eyes” to be right because continuity is not that hard... If I was a creator and developed characters for a story as involved as BtVS, I am the kind of person who establishes birthdays, eye colors, and other traits because it makes a fictional character that much more real. I imagine that if someone Googled David Boreanaz and looked at him; it'd make sense to make the character of Angel "look" like David simply for the sake of the fans. Again, it’s up to the individual who is "coloring" the comic (whether it is the main artist like Chen or a different person on staff) to either have a Character Bible ALWAYS present OR management needs to clarify these things because IMO it is important to get this correct. I like Angel with brown eyes, it suits his personality (I believe) and the same goes with Spike's blue eyes. I admit SMG has ever changing eye colors in the show because in the dark scene they look dark, like brown or hazel, and in daytime scenes they are greenish-gray… but these are things artists need to know when developing characters because to some of the people reading – we notice. In other shows when I see that birthdays get mixed up or character history lines get overlooked it bugs me because continuity is what makes the Buffyverse so powerful and believable to its fans. In the history and the development of the character, solid storylines and character traits matter to us. We’ve even ranted about how Season 8 characters either don’t “sound” like the characters or things like Faiths tattoo is missing in this scene or Riley’s scar has magically disappeared. Fans notice because it changes things. Some fans don’t care and that’s cool too. I just believe that if the creators or the fans let stuff like character traits, character attributes, or continuity get funk-ti-fied with then the story becomes unbelievable or it becomes less "Buffy" and more something else.
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Post by Emmie on Nov 18, 2010 19:52:50 GMT -5
Brown eyes make him look different. Would anyone find it weird if Angel suddenly had blue eyes? Why would that matter? Um... no? Not to me. I couldn't tell you what colour eyes Angel has. I couldn't even tell you what colour eyes my friends have. It's not something I pay attention to, in fiction or real life. Lol. Well, I think your being oblivious to eye color isn't the norm (not that it's bad! Just that I don't think your not caring should make us stop caring, you get me?). Especially when we get a lot of close-ups of the characters eyes in the show. No doubt closer than one usually sees their friends' eyes. Also, if eye color didn't matter, why would the show bother to make Lorne wear red colored contacts? Or why would vampires eyes shift golden? I get that eye color doesn't matter to you. But it matters to the story (color is a tool they use) and it matters to a lot of viewers. I get that Marvel artists have leeway, but this is a licensed comic with character design based on actors. It takes all of two seconds to know that Spike/JM has blue eyes. And just like I don't like it when Willow suddenly gets stacked, I don't like it when the eye color is changed not due to artistic license but because it was a mistake. I don't see a difference, but then I'm not someone who cares about actor likenesses. I don't care if Cyclops looks different in different comics, it's two equally valid interpretations. Equally, I don't care if Spike looks like James Marsters... if he looks like Spike, then details like eye colour are irrelevant to me. It only bothers me if the interpretation is wildly out of character, like Kate in "Aftermath". Someone posted an essay thingie a while back which compared the various visual representations of Buffy and which features were crucial to the character. They asked whether Buffy and SMG have the exact same features, or if SMG is merely a representation of the character's defining features (blonde hair, petite build, etc). It was interesting, whatever your stance. Yeah, I remember that post. Hmm. Actually I might have posted that here on SlayAlive. My point still stands that Chen does a sort of stylized photorealism and she herself considered it a mistake. If she did it for artistic reasons, then she wouldn't have changed it. In fact, for her next cover that's a close up of Buffy, she made Buffy's eyes brown but I defended that choice because the color palette for the piece was entirely brown. With the Spike cover, there was too much light and variance of color to consider the lighting had changed his eyes from bright blue to brown.
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Smashed
Junior Vampire Slayer
[Mo0:3]
Posts: 908
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Post by Smashed on Nov 18, 2010 22:11:43 GMT -5
I did not pay attention to eye color on the show. :\ I do in real life though! But what color eyes do the main actors have?
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Shane
Potential Slayer
I saw a baby today.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 135
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Post by Shane on Nov 19, 2010 11:58:28 GMT -5
I didn't either. I think James Marsters had blue, SMG had green and David Boreanaz had brown (?). Don't know about the rest. For me, features such as eye colour are important but only insofar as I think it's part of the message the writers are trying to get through. As long as the essence of the character (as I see it) isn't lost I don't have a problem with it. And since this is more about different interpretations it will always be debatable if Spike's eye colour should be blue in all his renderings. For me, Spike's eyes don't need to be blue, they just need to be... uh... effulgent. Jo Chen's cover is another matter. She's going for likeness so I want it to be as close as she can get it - I choose her covers because I find them more aesthetically pleasing.
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47kwest
Potential Slayer
"This is where the fun begins!"[Mo0:37]
Posts: 120
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Post by 47kwest on Nov 23, 2010 1:48:58 GMT -5
I think it is very sad that so many people have to judge and bully the creative people behind this venture..i.e. Jo Chen had to repaint Spike's eye color because they were brown instead of green. Really? My goodness people cut them some slack!! Late to this comment, but well it relates to me so I tagged myself in. No one bullied Jo Chen. I and a few others posted on a fan forum about how Chen got the eye color wrong and we wished it was blue and that it was surprising how she got it wrong. That criticism was made in fan space. Chen was the one who got upset by it because she made a fairly simple mistake. Nobody asked her to fix it. She did it herself presumably because she's a perfectionist and she wanted to get it right. If Chen messes up on a likeness, I'm going to say so. Discussing art isn't about being nice--it's about discussing ART. So I don't think there's any need to chill. As long as people are taking about art and not Chen or Jeanty's personal character, then it's all fair game. This is a fan forum. Freedom of speech to discuss art at all times. And I'm going to get my Grr Face if I hear people suggesting others need to stop critiquing art because it's not "nice". I am really sorry this has gotten so crazy. It all started with a poster who was being very rude and was kicked off the forum. So part of the original conversation is not present anymore. So the statement where I am referring to the artist's and their work no longer has a true context. I would never say someone is not entitled to their opinion. Actually I said that at the very beginning of the post. I was simply saying that to offer an opinion, make it with something other than vitriol and personal attacks. I was standing up for the people who make the comic even possible. And I do think Scott Allie and others, over the years, have taken some shots from people. My mistake was using the Spike scenario to make my point. It is obvious this is a very heated issue and I did not realize it would touch off some real anger. I thought I had read on Jo Chen's website that she was disappointed in having to make the change. If I misunderstood or did not remember correctly I apologize. By no means was I taking shots at any one person or persons. I have a BFA in art, Painting, so constructive criticism is something I hold in high regard. I guess I come at this from a lesson I was taught in school, if you want a precise, perfect representation, take a picture, this coming from a backlash against photorealism. But that is my opinion. So if there is any doubt about why my post was made, understand the person I was responding to no longer has his posts visible. If I have offended anyone, again I apologize. Opine away.
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Post by wenxina on Nov 23, 2010 2:14:27 GMT -5
My extremely late (as per always) review of the issue can now be found HERE. Would love to hear thoughts on my take on Willow. Feel free to leave comments on the blog, or heck, discuss them here.
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Dorotea
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 145
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Post by Dorotea on Nov 23, 2010 3:20:20 GMT -5
Nice review, Xi. My only comment on Willow would be that all of this reminds me of something familiar... which I would not mention for now. Hope that if she is indeed taking over Master's 'position' - she won't get trapped there with the broken Seed in the end... If the Seed is broken what happens to its power to trap its guardian ?
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Post by wenxina on Nov 23, 2010 8:06:13 GMT -5
The Seed apparently drew the Master to Sunnydale, and probably guardians before him. But what's this about trapping its guardian?
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Dorotea
Potential Slayer
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Posts: 145
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Post by Dorotea on Nov 23, 2010 9:52:32 GMT -5
The Seed apparently drew the Master to Sunnydale, and probably guardians before him. But what's this about trapping its guardian? Well, my read of the latest developments in 37-38 regarding the Master was that he was not able to leave the Hellmouth because the Seed kept him there and was even resurrecting him when it needed his protection. Maybe I am wrong, but that's how I read the bat-face comments and the 'cork in a bottle' quotes - remember that this is essentially repeat of Giles' words from S1 ? Master was stuck in Hellmouth because the Seed was keeping him there. If Willow tries to replace him - won't she be stuck too - even with the broken Seed? But especially with unbroken one...
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Post by wenxina on Nov 23, 2010 9:56:12 GMT -5
Well, Willow somehow winds up in Haddyn (Manhattan, NY) in about a couple of hundred years (I know, spoiler alert!), so if you're right, then she's not the guardian. Or perhaps a broken Seed is no longer able to do anything. Or perhaps Willow becomes the Seed incarnate. Counting down to #39 right now.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Nov 23, 2010 10:25:49 GMT -5
Good review.
I think the "betrayal" might be Buffy... after being magically anointed by Willow as the Seed's protector, she will change her mind and instead destroy it. (Probably after being talked into doing so by Xander).
It looks like Buffy is caught in a chain-reaction of consequences caused by extraordinary things she does. She came back from the dead, and season 7 was all about the consequences of that. Then she solved that problem by activating the Slayer Army, and season 8 has been all about the consequences of that. Season 9 will almost certainly be about the consequences of destroying the Seed.
Maybe Giles will be the big death of issue #39, and #40 will have Buffy reading some farewell message that he left for her... perhaps containing secrets or surprises that will catapult us into season 9. At least that's the way I'd write it, so it's almost certainly not what Joss will do.
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zamolxis
Novice Witch
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Post by zamolxis on Nov 23, 2010 10:51:28 GMT -5
I think the "betrayal" might be Buffy... after being magically anointed by Willow as the Seed's protector, she will change her mind and instead destroy it. (Probably after being talked into doing so by Xander). Remember the "history of vampires-slayers" interlocked with the space-frakkin pages? first slayer, dark haired vampire kills a slayer, white haired vampire kills a slayer (or two), red haired vampire kills a slayer, Spike calling Willow "Red", the Seed projecting red light on Willow and the Master? I think it's Willow, but as you said probably after being talked into doing so by Xander.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Nov 23, 2010 11:07:09 GMT -5
I think Willow is doing something we haven't been told about yet... something Aluwyn told her to do.
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moscowwatcher
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You're the one, Buffy[Mo0:0]
Posts: 106
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Post by moscowwatcher on Nov 23, 2010 16:00:15 GMT -5
I think Willow tries to heal the Earth, as she said herself. Future books don't mention the destruction of Earth but Mel knows anout the battle of Starbucks (Sunnydale, I presume). I think Willow somehow restores the balance, more or less, but she can't finish the job properly, because the seed will be broken. Hence, "the battle of Starbucks" and its casualties will remain - but the rest of the Earth will be saved.
[/conspiracy theorist mode]
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Post by wenxina on Nov 23, 2010 19:28:16 GMT -5
I think Willow tries to heal the Earth, as she said herself. Future books don't mention the destruction of Earth but Mel knows anout the battle of Starbucks (Sunnydale, I presume). I think Willow somehow restores the balance, more or less, but she can't finish the job properly, because the seed will be broken. Hence, "the battle of Starbucks" and its casualties will remain - but the rest of the Earth will be saved. [/conspiracy theorist mode] Or it's possible that Willow's the one that breaks the Seed. Breaking it being the cost of restoring the world somewhat. I mean, at the moment, the entire world is in the throes of an agonizing death, with a new world already ready to take over (rather aggressively, even). That's no mean feat. Also, in doing so, Willow launches herself into the FDW trajectory for good. It's Willow's sacrifice for the greater good, since FDW is basically magicless, but she's definitely something other than human.
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Shane
Potential Slayer
I saw a baby today.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 135
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Post by Shane on Nov 23, 2010 20:27:20 GMT -5
My extremely late (as per always) review of the issue can now be found HERE. Would love to hear thoughts on my take on Willow. Feel free to leave comments on the blog, or heck, discuss them here. Willow taking over guardianship of the Seed would be super cool. As you said, it could lead to her betraying Buffy and then repenting, leading to her actions in TOYL. I would absolutely LOVE to see that. Very insightful. Jeanty sucks though.
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Darth Rosie
Ensouled Vampire
I do doodle
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Posts: 1,392
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Post by Darth Rosie on Nov 24, 2010 1:15:59 GMT -5
wenxina, my favourite term of the morning: the "dreaded mid-arc crisis". I love your use of language.
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Post by wenxina on Nov 24, 2010 8:41:34 GMT -5
wenxina, my favourite term of the morning: the "dreaded mid-arc crisis". I love your use of language. Then you'd also probably love my archaic usage of slang too. Yesterday, I referred to diamonds as "ice", which I think is so 2001.
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jellymoff
Ensouled Vampire
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Post by jellymoff on Nov 24, 2010 13:31:40 GMT -5
wenxina, my favourite term of the morning: the "dreaded mid-arc crisis". I love your use of language. Then you'd also probably love my archaic usage of slang too. Yesterday, I referred to diamonds as "ice", which I think is so 2001. I think your use of the term Ice is totally fly.
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Post by wenxina on Nov 24, 2010 13:45:53 GMT -5
Then you'd also probably love my archaic usage of slang too. Yesterday, I referred to diamonds as "ice", which I think is so 2001. I think your use of the term Ice is totally fly. Except I'm not white...
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