gelious
Innocent Bystander
Fear denies faith.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 26
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Post by gelious on Jan 20, 2010 5:09:00 GMT -5
What we saw in ToYL could very well be not the true future. I think I read somewhere that the Fray future could turn into an alt. reality. Which makes sense because of the actions and choices that are happening now. Everything is about choice!! If someone told you, you have a dark future ahead of you, you then have the choice to change it or let it be....but it's your choice now. Willow knows what could happen to her in the future...her knowing that has changed everything. Now we just have to wait to see what choices Willow and Buffy will make knowing what they know and see if that will stop Twilight. I think Buffy going into the future has given her and Willow the only advantage they have had so far of stopping Twilight. They know what could happen. The hard part which we'll see in issues to come is what they'll do with that knowledge. That's all true, but you forgot one thing. Okey, Buffy and Willow know now what future is about to come. But: they do not know what were exactly their actions that cause this future. So it is possible that even knowing the future, Buffy and Willow won't be able to change anything. Because they are not aware of what they should'nt do.
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Post by DorothyFan1 on Jan 20, 2010 6:34:26 GMT -5
What we saw in ToYL could very well be not the true future. I think I read somewhere that the Fray future could turn into an alt. reality. Which makes sense because of the actions and choices that are happening now. Everything is about choice!! If someone told you, you have a dark future ahead of you, you then have the choice to change it or let it be....but it's your choice now. Willow knows what could happen to her in the future...her knowing that has changed everything. Now we just have to wait to see what choices Willow and Buffy will make knowing what they know and see if that will stop Twilight. I think Buffy going into the future has given her and Willow the only advantage they have had so far of stopping Twilight. They know what could happen. The hard part which we'll see in issues to come is what they'll do with that knowledge. That's all true, but you forgot one thing. Okey, Buffy and Willow know now what future is about to come. But: they do not know what were exactly their actions that cause this future. So it is possible that even knowing the future, Buffy and Willow won't be able to change anything. Because they are not aware of what they should'nt do. Here's something I just thought about and it's curious. Twilight is in a twisted way...Buffy's "guide". He wants to set Buffy on the right path, correct? He wants her to "see" what's wrong and set things right. Sound familiar? Now look at Willow's case. She has Saga Vasuki a strange snake woman who is a "trickster". We don't even know if she's a god. My guess is she is. Willow seems to have been taken in by this woman and "the Elementals"...whatever they are. But in Willow's case it seems her test is figuring out what her "power" is all about. Re-read that Willow one-shot again. I'm almost positive this issue is hinting at the answer more than anything else in Season 8. Now notice...both Buffy and Willow seem to have people interested in making sure they do things which may or may not be the right thing to do. I would guess they're really at odds with each other. It looks to me Twilight and Saka Vasuki may be working together to destroy Buffy and Willow in order to end the age of magic. To what purpose I don't know. But I don't believe any of this is a coincidence. Clearly the key to defeating this combination of Twilight and Saga Vasuki is for Buffy and Willow coming together and comparing notes. So far I haven't seen them do any of this. Is there a connection? I think there is.
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gelious
Innocent Bystander
Fear denies faith.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 26
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Post by gelious on Jan 20, 2010 6:57:41 GMT -5
It looks to me Twilight and Saka Vasuki may be working together to destroy Buffy and Willow in order to end the age of magic. To what purpose I don't know. But I don't believe any of this is a coincidence. Clearly the key to defeating this combination of Twilight and Saga Vasuki is for Buffy and Willow coming together and comparing notes. So far I haven't seen them do any of this. Is there a connection? I think there is. Good idea. I like it.
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Post by DorothyFan1 on Jan 20, 2010 19:11:36 GMT -5
I think we may have to re-evaluate Riley. Somebody said Riley back in Season 6 had a scar over his eye. If you look at the closeup of Riley in issue #31 he has no scar over his eye. Was this a case of mistaken error or was this a clue?
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Tea - Total
Bad Ass Wicca
?The hardest thing in this world is to ...live in it....? [Mo0:4]
Posts: 2,118
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Post by Tea - Total on Jan 21, 2010 2:54:15 GMT -5
The First brought back Angel to kill Buffy, it shown that the first easily manipulated him to try to kill Buffy, then he decides to kill himself. The first was like that wasn't the plan but it would do. The first power lies in its ability to deceive, torment and manipulate others, the first plan for Angel might be still continuing.
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Billie Erin
Ensouled Vampire
"I go back to December"
"I picked up a hitchhiker. You've got to when you hit them."[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,536
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Post by Billie Erin on Jan 21, 2010 3:37:07 GMT -5
I think we may have to re-evaluate Riley. Somebody said Riley back in Season 6 had a scar over his eye. If you look at the closeup of Riley in issue #31 he has no scar over his eye. Was this a case of mistaken error or was this a clue? I think it's probably just the artwork- Spike has a scar on his eyebrow but that's never drawn in. Sorry
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Post by DorothyFan1 on Jan 21, 2010 8:41:10 GMT -5
The First brought back Angel to kill Buffy, it shown that the first easily manipulated him to try to kill Buffy, then he decides to kill himself. The first was like that wasn't the plan but it would do. The first power lies in its ability to deceive, torment and manipulate others, the first plan for Angel might be still continuing. I noticed Scott Allie didn't confirm or deny that bit about the First in the recent Q&A. Nor did he clear up that deal about the First not being in two places at the same time. I've always believed that Season 7's Conversations with Dead People was a perfect example showing the First being in two places at once. Every time I've brought that up I would be swatted down like a fly with posters saying it was an "angel" talking to Dawn. Are we really sure about that now? Joyce/The First: I love you both. But Buffy won't be there for you. We may learn the significance of that comment in Season 8. And now that Scott didn't deny or confirm that detail about the First...I can further elaborate on my theory about Twilight and Aluwyn. I think they could both be working for the First. If that's true...then there's a reason why the First wants magic eliminated. So the First can take control of the world. Destroying magic leaves Earth vulnerable to the First. My theory.
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alex_krycek
Rogue Demon Hunter
keeper of the x-files
sorry, i just remembered seeing king ralph[Mo0:30]
Posts: 484
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Post by alex_krycek on Jan 21, 2010 9:54:35 GMT -5
dorothyfan1: i always thought that joyce/the first speaking to dawn foreshadowed dawn's 'abduction' by xander. perhaps after dawn read buffy's note in the car, the first was banking on dawn saying, "i don't need buffy, lets get out of here xander."
the first may have just been trying to create a wedge between dawn, xander and buffy, in an attempt to get two more warriors out of the way.
i think its still possible that the first could be involved, i just think that joyce's words to dawn are really a non-issue. but hey, i could be wrong.
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Hellbound Hyperion
Bad Ass Wicca
$20 per soul, no refunds[/B]
Dude, you just rescued a puppy![Mo0:18]
Posts: 2,268
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Jan 21, 2010 12:01:30 GMT -5
Perhaps not unlike what Twilight attempted to do in No Future For You, with Giles and Faith?
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Tea - Total
Bad Ass Wicca
?The hardest thing in this world is to ...live in it....? [Mo0:4]
Posts: 2,118
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Post by Tea - Total on Jan 22, 2010 3:22:06 GMT -5
The First brought back Angel to kill Buffy, it shown that the first easily manipulated him to try to kill Buffy, then he decides to kill himself. The first was like that wasn't the plan but it would do. The first power lies in its ability to deceive, torment and manipulate others, the first plan for Angel might be still continuing. I noticed Scott Allie didn't confirm or deny that bit about the First in the recent Q&A. Nor did he clear up that deal about the First not being in two places at the same time. I've always believed that Season 7's Conversations with Dead People was a perfect example showing the First being in two places at once. Every time I've brought that up I would be swatted down like a fly with posters saying it was an "angel" talking to Dawn. Are we really sure about that now? Joyce/The First: I love you both. But Buffy won't be there for you. We may learn the significance of that comment in Season 8. And now that Scott didn't deny or confirm that detail about the First...I can further elaborate on my theory about Twilight and Aluwyn. I think they could both be working for the First. If that's true...then there's a reason why the First wants magic eliminated. So the First can take control of the world. Destroying magic leaves Earth vulnerable to the First. My theory. I totally agree, because in the real reality we have allot of evil things happening in the real world , so without magics wouldn't make a difference of losing the evil side of the identity but with magics make the evil vulnerable.
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Billie Erin
Ensouled Vampire
"I go back to December"
"I picked up a hitchhiker. You've got to when you hit them."[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,536
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Post by Billie Erin on Jan 22, 2010 3:39:54 GMT -5
I noticed Scott Allie didn't confirm or deny that bit about the First in the recent Q&A. Nor did he clear up that deal about the First not being in two places at the same time. I've always believed that Season 7's Conversations with Dead People was a perfect example showing the First being in two places at once. Every time I've brought that up I would be swatted down like a fly with posters saying it was an "angel" talking to Dawn. Are we really sure about that now? Joyce/The First: I love you both. But Buffy won't be there for you. We may learn the significance of that comment in Season 8. And now that Scott didn't deny or confirm that detail about the First...I can further elaborate on my theory about Twilight and Aluwyn. I think they could both be working for the First. If that's true...then there's a reason why the First wants magic eliminated. So the First can take control of the world. Destroying magic leaves Earth vulnerable to the First. My theory. I totally agree, because in the real reality we have allot of evil things happening in the real world , so without magics wouldn't make a difference of losing the evil side of the identity but with magics make the evil vulnerable. But surely if we define magic as "having power over supernatural forces" then the First is, in itself, a magical entity. And it doesn't seem like the kind to sacrifice itself just so that "evil can live on and rule" or whatever. Besides after all the hype about who Twilight is it'd be a bit of a let-down if they said "sorry, the big bad is actually The First"
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Tea - Total
Bad Ass Wicca
?The hardest thing in this world is to ...live in it....? [Mo0:4]
Posts: 2,118
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Post by Tea - Total on Jan 22, 2010 5:15:09 GMT -5
I totally agree, because in the real reality we have allot of evil things happening in the real world , so without magics wouldn't make a difference of losing the evil side of the identity but with magics make the evil vulnerable. But surely if we define magic as "having power over supernatural forces" then the First is, in itself, a magical entity. And it doesn't seem like the kind to sacrifice itself just so that "evil can live on and rule" or whatever. Besides after all the hype about who Twilight is it'd be a bit of a let-down if they said "sorry, the big bad is actually The First" The first is the entity ever to have existed the ruler of evil , the Creator, so basically it would have all the existence of power."The First Evil is neither male, female, demon, nor god; it is a "power". The First might want to skip the scale of good and evil , i think from what we've seen so far, it's been shown that the slayers did indeed tip the scale. but as far as i know, in the direction of good. and evil is rushing to catch up, but it hasn't been shown that it's surpassed good. But without magics the world be vulnerable to the First .The First claimed that when its army outnumbered the humans on Earth, it would gain a corporeal form. My theory.
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alex_krycek
Rogue Demon Hunter
keeper of the x-files
sorry, i just remembered seeing king ralph[Mo0:30]
Posts: 484
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Post by alex_krycek on Jan 22, 2010 8:41:18 GMT -5
The First brought back Angel to kill Buffy, it shown that the first easily manipulated him to try to kill Buffy, then he decides to kill himself. The first was like that wasn't the plan but it would do. The first power lies in its ability to deceive, torment and manipulate others, the first plan for Angel might be still continuing. but what if this isn't the firsts plan? wouldn't it be interesting to see buffy call on the first in order to keep the magics alive? evil may still exist without magic, but i don't think the first would sacrifice its existence just so evil could live on. i can't help but get the feeling that when twilight's intentions are revealed, a lot of the scoobies may side with him/her. perhaps buffy working with a former villain of great strength and power (the first/glory) would be a final attempt to defeat twilight. the scoobies have always come together (after coming close to blows) on how to defeat the big bad. shouldn't buffy be allowed to have this one time that she was right on how to defeat the big bad?
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angeluffy
Innocent Bystander
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 21
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Post by angeluffy on Jan 22, 2010 14:10:03 GMT -5
I like your suggestion. Buffy aligned herself with Spike to get to Angelus. The Scoobies aligned themselves with Dracula to get the scythe back.
Evil will approach the Good side, just like W&H did with Angel. This time not to corrupt, but to fight for their very own existence. If magic end, it will be good for the good guys because they will finally have a normal life and/or rest in peace, but it will not be a good business for evil.
But I still want Willow to kick Twilight's ass back to Hell!
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Tea - Total
Bad Ass Wicca
?The hardest thing in this world is to ...live in it....? [Mo0:4]
Posts: 2,118
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Post by Tea - Total on Jan 22, 2010 14:58:21 GMT -5
I like your suggestion. Buffy aligned herself with Spike to get to Angelus. The Scoobies aligned themselves with Dracula to get the scythe back. Evil will approach the Good side, just like W&H did with Angel. This time not to corrupt, but to fight for their very own existence. If magic end, it will be good for the good guys because they will finally have a normal life and/or rest in peace, but it will not be a good business for evil. But I still want Willow to kick Twilight's ass back to Hell! I totally agree i want Willow to kick Twilights ass. If the First succeed being corporal it will rule on a planet without love, laughter only hate and its menace of cruelty. But without magics the world be vulnerable to the First.The First claimed that when its army outnumbered the humans on Earth, it would gain a corporeal form. My theory. I might be totally wrong it might be something entirely different.
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gelious
Innocent Bystander
Fear denies faith.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 26
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Post by gelious on Jan 23, 2010 13:18:14 GMT -5
This is interesting.... In Fray we were told, that a Slayer fought army of demons, won, and then magic (or at least magic creatures ) were gone. What do we have now? Twilight has somekind of army. But it is human army, with tanks, planes, etc. So? Either books were lying or Twilight failed in his mission. May be he will win and change the future. Or he will win but magic will return - only to disappear again. Any thoughts? Addon: I have just remembered that in the end of A Beautiful Sunshine Twilight was reporting to a crowd of, well, demons. Does it mean that "saving the world from army of Slayers and magic" is nothing but crap used to destroy Buffy's moral strength and spirit? That makes Angel pure evil...
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angeluffy
Innocent Bystander
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 21
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Post by angeluffy on Jan 24, 2010 20:49:26 GMT -5
Maybe the slayer won the big battle, but Twilight still got to his endgame just like BTVS-S2. Buffy won, but she had to kill Angel. In the end Angelus got to his game partially because at least Buffy went to Hell... twice (killing Angel and literally during Anne).
Besides, I can't possibly understand how the slayer army could change the balance of good and evil. I mean... Is it fair that thee only one girl to fight ALL demons? What kind of balance is this? How many girls were activated? 2 thousand? Would this amount change the balance? For me it would still be less girls than the need to kill demons in a fair way!
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Post by diabeticdude202 on Jan 25, 2010 3:20:05 GMT -5
The balance has been tipped, because that certain amount of good power was not meant to be spread out to so many -- therefor tipping the scales.
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Tea - Total
Bad Ass Wicca
?The hardest thing in this world is to ...live in it....? [Mo0:4]
Posts: 2,118
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Post by Tea - Total on Jan 29, 2010 6:36:21 GMT -5
The slayers did indeed tip the scale. but as far as i know, in the direction of good. and evil is rushing to catch up, but it hasn't been shown that it's surpassed good. Or has it ?
Which mean it has to end magic to end the slayer line. which the scale will be back to equal or the evil side surpassed good, which my theory comes in. But without magics the world be vulnerable to the First or any existence of evil.
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juniorwatcher
Potential Slayer
There's that word again, what you are, how you'll die...alone. - The First[Mo0:0]
Posts: 131
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Post by juniorwatcher on Jan 30, 2010 9:40:57 GMT -5
Has anyone ever speculated that Angel being Twilight is not such an evil thing. I really do not believe that this is Angelus we're dealing with or that Angel is working for some higher power.
Angel possibly just wants all magicks to end, knowing that he will cause the downfall of mankind as is prophecied in After the Fall (which has been officially announced as canon). So why not get rid of everything supernatural to stop that?
The whole thing is WHY! Other than that theaory WHY does Angel want to end all magicks? Why does he act like he REALLY doesn't care that he's hurting people? (Killing many innocent slayers- innocent girls, saying to Buffy in A Beautfil Sunset "the slayer always whining"...really?) Why take on the Twilight persona period?
I mean it's a shock, Angel is Twilight??? Obviously that clears up that Buffy Season 8 takes place a short while after AtF.
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