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Post by vampiresaiyan on Jul 10, 2008 3:57:45 GMT -5
You know even though the cover seems to be dipicting Dark Willow I am not so sure. I mean we have seen her go "Dark" when getting pissed at Amy in comic #3. And she wasnt evil just turned that way, but hey if it is dark willow I will be excited either way. On another note I had got a chance to see Jeanty's cover for this a couple of weeks ago when I met him at a convention and I REALLY love the alternate cover to this as well. The likeness of Buffy and Fray are great!. CAN'T WAIT! My fav Jo Cover so far. SHE IS AMAZING!
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jul 10, 2008 6:36:22 GMT -5
Good points Diable, why not to assume too much (although I'd rather let the truth hit them when the issues comes out. More painful that way  But I think you're forgetting something.. Is there anything in canon to support the idea that humans, even those with extraordinary magical abilities, can extend their own lives indefinitely (while also maintaining their youthful appearances)? While there's nothing that disproves that idea, there's no factual basis to support it, either. Connor's fake dad nr 1 did that. I seriosuly doubt it's Willow, even Amy is a better guess, but it wouldn't be impossible for Willow to last for two cen. Btw, you shouldn't diss people for thinking that the dress, partly in shadow, on the cover of issue 17 looks like Willow's style. The sleaves doesn't look like anything Willow has had before, but that doesn't mean anything. About Willow wearing plain 18oos dresses in the series , or the one of the cover being one, I have no idea. Gotta ask an historian about that. |
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Lukee
Ensouled Vampire
Brilliant is my middle name tbf[Mo0:14]
Posts: 1,137
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Post by Lukee on Jul 10, 2008 7:24:16 GMT -5
Speculation is all we have right now though!
It happened every issue we will say what we think it is and even if where wrong we still gave a stab at it.
People saying its Darth Willow is just the same as people saying it is Dru. Which there is no hard prof behind too. If we didn't speculate then how would we fill up a thread? If all we had to say was o, nice cover........ Wounder who is the bad guy....
Would make a very boring thread right.
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jul 10, 2008 7:54:07 GMT -5
To me it's fairly obvious it's Willow. We know it's someone who has been around for hundreds of years, which would go with Willow's quest for immortality. We know it's a woman who shops at the Renn Fest. We know it's someone Buffy has a past with. And we know that Dark Willow is returning and that she has some kind of altercation with Buffy. So....yeah. It seems pretty definite to me. So I YAH HUH to your NAH UH!!! We shall see. :-) Not a personal jab at you Mikey, but why do people think that Willow wants immortality? Is it just because Vasuki is the God of immortality? And why do you think it's someone Buffy has a past with? Perhaps she just dislikes slayers in general? |
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vampmogs
Novice Witch
[Mo0:16]
Posts: 208
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Post by vampmogs on Jul 10, 2008 8:04:51 GMT -5
I think it's a fantastic cover and I agree that it doesn't have to mean Willow is by Harth's side in that cover. For one thing I can't see Dark Willow leaning on his shoulder like that, or him sitting on the throne. Surely it'd be Dark Willow's throne yes? She could turn him to ash with a look?
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Lukee
Ensouled Vampire
Brilliant is my middle name tbf[Mo0:14]
Posts: 1,137
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Post by Lukee on Jul 10, 2008 8:10:13 GMT -5
i Would rather it be Willow then Dru however i do not think Willow would be working with a vampire.... dark Willow doesn't need a vampires help hello did you watch season 6.... The cover doesn't make it bang on that that is Dark Willow her hair is still Ginger/Brownish and just because she has veins on her face doesn't really mean she has gone back dark did people see her when she was fighting Amy her eyes turn black... maybe she is just getting back back from the Frays time. It would mean mega magic for her to have to do that so she could look all Darth Willowness.
But id rather it be Willow then Dru as well Dru has no point in being there no reason.
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vampmogs
Novice Witch
[Mo0:16]
Posts: 208
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Post by vampmogs on Jul 10, 2008 8:16:53 GMT -5
Well whoever it is knows that Buffy is in the future and that there's only one slayer left. It's possible that Dru had a vision of this? She has been known to plan things, she planned the Judge all by herself, and even with Wolfram and Harts help, was able to handle the Darla situation.
Sure she hasn't made an effort to kill slayers, even though she can, but she did follow Spike around and his obsession to do just that, and she encouraged it. She also probably harbours ill feelings towards Buffy and at the end of the day, is a vamp. Vamps don't like slayers, just because she hasn't made it her mission to rid the earth of them before, doesn't mean in hundreds of years since we've seen her she hasn't decided to give it a whirl.
But it could be Dark Willow, the cover suggests an altercation between she and Buffy. Could be possible that Vasuki is influencing her somehow though.
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jul 10, 2008 8:30:59 GMT -5
Well whoever it is knows that Buffy is in the future and that there's only one slayer left. . Huh? |
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Lukee
Ensouled Vampire
Brilliant is my middle name tbf[Mo0:14]
Posts: 1,137
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Post by Lukee on Jul 10, 2008 8:38:03 GMT -5
Well whoever it is knows that Buffy is in the future and that there's only one slayer left. . Huh? I think Vampmogs was saying that who ever the badass if who is working with Hearth knows that Buffy was going to come to the future, so its got to be some one who Buffy knows in the present right? It would explain things if it was evil Willow wouldn't the badass and out to get Buffy? Seeing as Dru has had no connection in the storyline so far.. |
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underbuffysspell
Potential Slayer
Seize the day, 'Cause tomorrow, you might be dead. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wizw5VqvXI8[Mo0:0
Posts: 187
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Post by underbuffysspell on Jul 10, 2008 10:22:06 GMT -5
THIS IS SO AWESOME! ...well the whole Willow being Dark Willow again isn't so cool...
Maybe she's pissed that all of the magicks are gone...seeing as she is, well, y'know all mighty wiccan earth goddess. XD. CAN'T WAIT TIL OCTOBER NOW! XD
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jul 10, 2008 11:20:31 GMT -5
I am defeated. Or atleast corrected. Found this quote in the issue 18 thread;
A powerful enemy from Buffy's past confronts the Slayer and Fray in the future, having allied with Fray's greatest foe. Meanwhile, Dawn's gone through another bizarre change.
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Post by vampiresaiyan on Jul 10, 2008 12:09:30 GMT -5
You know call me crazy, but I still think the girl standing next to Harth kinda looks like Robin from Anywhere But Here, obviously as everyone is saying just speculation at this time, but hopefully because that is the variant cover for issue 17 we will find out in less than a month who it is...
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Jul 10, 2008 12:13:16 GMT -5
Nice to see that at least some people agree with me on this. Between several of the posts in this thread, and then some of the convo in the c-box a couple of hours ago, it seems like a lot of people are just taking this new cover as proof that Harth's playmate on the #17 variant is Dark Willow. As far as they're concerned, it's not a possibility, it's a fact. Seems to me to be the ultimate example of adding 2 and 2 and coming up with 7.  Go back and look at this new Jo Chen cover and answer me this: Can you see the setting around Willow, to tell whether she's in the present or future? No. Well, then can you see what she's wearing, to see if it's the same dress as the mystery woman on Jeanty's #17 cover? No, you can't. Then can you at least see if she's fighting Buffy? Again: no. Right now, the idea that Harth's friend is Dark Willow is pure speculation that has no hard evidence to support it, and in fact requires several leaps of logic (too many, IMO) to arrive at it. For one thing, there's this description: "Buffy and Fray take on a powerful foe, who’s lasted hundreds of years just so she can bring down the last two Slayers." That means whoever-she-is, she didn't time-travel into the future from the year 2010--she's lived for hundreds of years. Is there anything in canon to support the idea that humans, even those with extraordinary magical abilities, can extend their own lives indefinitely (while also maintaining their youthful appearances)? While there's nothing that disproves that idea, there's no factual basis to support it, either. For another thing, what reason would (Dark)Willow have for wanting to kill Buffy? Certainly it's possible that something will happen in the future that would cause her to feel that way, but it hasn't happened yet, and there's been no hint of it, so again, it's just total speculation with no factual basis behind it. The possibility that's much simpler, and has more of a solid canonical base behind it, is the one I already mentioned: The time-travel at the end of #16 seems to be identical to that from "Get It Done", where Buffy went to another time and a demon from that time was exchanged for her. Willow had to go very briefly dark to get her back the first time, so it stands to reason she'll have to do the same to get Buffy back this time, too. Is it possible that the woman Harth has teamed up with is Dark Willow? Sure. But can we please hold off on making any definitive judgments until we have a little more evidence to go by?  (Honestly, I was watching the conversation in the chatbox around 7:30, wanting to slam my head against the keyboard over the way Future Dark Willow--"FDW", as she was being called--was being talked about as a stone-cold fact...   ) Man, that was a lot of drama just to say "Nah uh!". Well, gee, mikey, call me crazy, but when I make a post disagreeing with someone, I like to try to throw some reasoning in there to support my opinion and explain why I feel the way I do. I guess I could say, "nah uh!", or "um, no", but I thought it might be better to actually try to sound at least a little bit intelligent... |
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jul 10, 2008 12:30:46 GMT -5
You know call me crazy, but I still think the girl standing next to Harth kinda looks like Robin from Anywhere But Here, obviously as everyone is saying just speculation at this time, but hopefully because that is the variant cover for issue 17 we will find out in less than a month who it is... I agree, it's more like Robin than anyone else I could think of. The hair, the face, the clothes. It's wouldn't surprise me if it's her. Not because she has known motives, but because it looks like her. |
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underbuffysspell
Potential Slayer
Seize the day, 'Cause tomorrow, you might be dead. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wizw5VqvXI8[Mo0:0
Posts: 187
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Post by underbuffysspell on Jul 10, 2008 12:47:16 GMT -5
So...Dawn going through another change....since there are supposedly three changes...does it mean that the curse put on her is almost up?? And...how come she made this change so quickly when she was a giant for like the first fifteen issues???
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Jul 10, 2008 13:03:46 GMT -5
So...Dawn going through another change....since there are supposedly three changes...does it mean that the curse put on her is almost up?? And...how come she made this change so quickly when she was a giant for like the first fifteen issues??? I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "fast". Yes, she was a giant for the first 15 issues--how do we know that she won't be a centaur for the next 15? |
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jul 10, 2008 13:15:11 GMT -5
So...Dawn going through another change....since there are supposedly three changes...does it mean that the curse put on her is almost up?? And...how come she made this change so quickly when she was a giant for like the first fifteen issues??? I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "fast". Yes, she was a giant for the first 15 issues--how do we know that she won't be a centaur for the next 15? This quote from the issue 18-thread suggests differently; A powerful enemy from Buffy's past confronts the Slayer and Fray in the future, having allied with Fray's greatest foe. Meanwhile, Dawn's gone through another bizarre change. |
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Jul 10, 2008 13:22:18 GMT -5
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "fast". Yes, she was a giant for the first 15 issues--how do we know that she won't be a centaur for the next 15? This quote from the issue 18-thread suggests differently; A powerful enemy from Buffy's past confronts the Slayer and Fray in the future, having allied with Fray's greatest foe. Meanwhile, Dawn's gone through another bizarre change. Well, since it shows her as a centaur on the #18 cover, and says she's "gone through" (past tense) another bizarre change, I think it most likely is talking about the centaur thing... |
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Post by Tyler Austin "tiewashere" on Jul 10, 2008 14:08:17 GMT -5
Man, that was a lot of drama just to say "Nah uh!". Well, gee, mikey, call me crazy, but when I make a post disagreeing with someone, I like to try to throw some reasoning in there to support my opinion and explain why I feel the way I do. I guess I could say, "nah uh!", or "um, no", but I thought it might be better to actually try to sound at least a little bit intelligent... That made me LOL  |
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brandonr
Potential Slayer
"That's mine." "Well you're about to get it back."[Mo0:0]
Posts: 168
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Post by brandonr on Jul 10, 2008 14:58:31 GMT -5
I'm not sure I'm ready to say that Dark Willow is the mystery character on the alternate cover of 17, because it doesn't really make sense to me. The whole thing about Willow seeking immortality just because she's rubbing elbows with Vasuki is pure speculation. Maybe she has another purpose behind being with Vasuki--maybe she's trying to find out about immortality because she wants to make Kennedy immortal so she won't die again--or Buffy even. Who knows? Maybe she's just trying to find out if the Slayer line is immortal, or if Twilight is immortal, or how The Immortal is actually immortal. There could be any number of things that she's looking into.
And this cover doesn't necessarily mean that Willow has gone completely dark again, as others have pointed out. Maybe she goes into the future and has to tap into the dark energy in order to get back to the present. Or, maybe she goes there and something corrupts her temporarily and she's the event that causes the "ripples" that come back through time and mess things up in the present.
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