Season 8 - Living Doll: Issue 25

[hitnrun017]

Mar 23, 2009 16:23:54 GMT -5 Tyler Austin "tiewashere" said:

I just re-read #1 and Dawn says that "once she becomes person sized, she's out of there." Buffy even mentions she should be at Berkley. Once her transformations are done, do you think she is leaving the group?

I hope not. Hopefully there is some "YAY WE'RE SISTERS I'M SORRY FOR IGNORING YOU" stuff this issue. I want Dawn nice, normal and part of the gang.

[Tyler Austin "tiewashere"]

Mar 23, 2009 16:28:04 GMT -5 hitnrun017 said:

Mar 23, 2009 16:23:54 GMT -5 Tyler Austin "tiewashere" said:

I just re-read #1 and Dawn says that "once she becomes person sized, she's out of there." Buffy even mentions she should be at Berkley. Once her transformations are done, do you think she is leaving the group?

I hope not. Hopefully there is some "YAY WE'RE SISTERS I'M SORRY FOR IGNORING YOU" stuff this issue. I want Dawn nice, normal and part of the gang.

I'd like here there too. But from what Buffy said, it seems like she wants Dawn out of the mayhem and at a nice college in order to make a life for herself without the protection of Buffy.

[Wyndam]

A lot of changed since the first arc though, what with Twilight's vendetta against the Slayer army/magic/whatever, and then the fact that all Slayers are now being ostracized. I wouldn't be surprised if Buffy thought it would be safer to keep Dawn close. That way she would at least be able to keep an eye on her. If Dawn went back to college, Twilight may kidnap her to use her against Buffy, or an anti-Slayer group may do the same, if it was discovered that the leader of the Slayers had a sister at college. Best thing Dawn can do right now is stay close.

[Tyler Austin "tiewashere"]

Mar 23, 2009 16:46:37 GMT -5 Wyndam said:

A lot of changed since the first arc though, what with Twilight's vendetta against the Slayer army/magic/whatever, and then the fact that all Slayers are now being ostracized. I wouldn't be surprised if Buffy thought it would be safer to keep Dawn close. That way she would at least be able to keep an eye on her. If Dawn went back to college, Twilight may kidnap her to use her against Buffy, or an anti-Slayer group may do the same, if it was discovered that the leader of the Slayers had a sister at college. Best thing Dawn can do right now is stay close.

Good point. Assuming the whole Twilight-Slayers are hated storyline is over with by the end of the season, maybe the season will end with one of the events being Dawn safely going to college. Sometimes I feel bad for Dawny, because she has such potential to do great things besides being protected by Buffy. Her finally becoming more independent and going off to college to start a nice life may be a nice character milestone.

[Nicholas]

And I think its one of the reasons that Buffy doesn't seem to be all over Dawns wacky changes. Buffy has to figure that if Dawn is either a giant/centaur then she can protect herself for a while which is actually a good plan. Besides, she's letting her sit in her own mess, learn her lesson seeing how Buffy let Dawn play an adult and look what she did.

[Tyler Austin "tiewashere"]

Mar 28, 2009 23:38:13 GMT -5 Nicholas said:

And I think its one of the reasons that Buffy doesn't seem to be all over Dawns wacky changes. Buffy has to figure that if Dawn is either a giant/centaur then she can protect herself for a while which is actually a good plan. Besides, she's letting her sit in her own mess, learn her lesson seeing how Buffy let Dawn play an adult and look what she did.

I think that would be a great explanation for why Buffy has chose to...not ignore, but dismiss...Dawn's current condition and I'd love to see it expanded upon in this issue. Not only would be interesting and different from the standard "Dawn is ignored by everyone" theme, but it would really develop Buffy and the sister's relationship this season. I really, really, like that idea. Karma for thou.

[jessiebailey]

I'll just put this out there,i don't like Buffy as much as i like Angel.
I love Angel!! It's way better than the Buffy comics.

[The Night Lord]

Oh God, Jessie, I think that was just the wrong place to put that, okay?
Moving on from my blond sister, I'm interested in seeing how Dawn will react with her final transformation, as well as everyone else's reactions

[Rebecca]

Interesting thought that Buffy wasn't ignoring Dawn, but rather letting her "lie in her own bed" as it were. Kind of like the role Giles took on in S6: taking a step back until she (being Dawn) resolved her own problems and asked for help when she needed it.

Some actual character development might come about as a result of these transformations... shocker! lolz. I really want her to grow up a bit and find a place in the scoobies.

[Nicholas]

I believe she will eventually grow and actually become a decent character and provide the group with something. She was well on her way there throughout S7 but when we see her in S8 and learn what happened, it only showed that deep inside she was still immature. Maybe now she will learn.

[vampmogs]

I don't think Dawn has been immature at all. How hasn't she been mature? I think she's done really well making the best of a really bad situation. She took down Amy in 'The Long Way Home' she took down Mecha Dawn and helped kill the vampires in 'Wolves At The Gate' and she saved Xander's ass in 'Time of Your Life.' She’s used her *deformities* (which they are remember) to help other people.

I think people should cut Dawn some slack. The punishment just doesn’t fit the crime. She’s been magically altered against her consent and that’s just not ok. Remember how angry Giles was with Xander after Buffy was turned into a rat? As a giant Dawn had to sleep outside for months in freezing Scotland, bathe in a lake, wear the same clothes for ages and drop College. As a centaur she hasn’t had it any better, she thinks she looks hideous and is a freak of nature. I really feel for the character and what she’s had to go through. It must be very humiliating for her to be altered in these ways and it must seriously suck that her life has turned out so badly and she’s been segregated from the others.

I don't think we're meant to view Buffy's attitude to Dawn's situation as a good thing. The solicitation for this issue has a very snakry, sarcastic tone in regards to Buffy and her opinion of Dawn. In particular the bit how Dawn “better be in trouble!” because heavens for bid, Buffy show some interest towards her sister if it isn’t when Dawn’s life is in mortal danger. It takes Dawn nearly being killed for Buffy to spend any time with her.. Great relationship they have there…

I hope this issue really addresses that behaviour and helps mend the Buffy/Dawn relationship.

[patxshand]

Dawn is by far the most mature member of the main cast. Look at what she's been through. Look at how Buffy has done absolutely nothing to help her. People are more apt to feel sympathetic for Buffy, because we get closer to her than we do to Dawn, but take a good look at the situation... Buffy is a lot better at being a slayer than she is at being a sister.

[rmw]

Is there a preview for this yet?

EDIT: Actually, I meant to ask "When will there be a preview for this?" Eh, I don't spend enough time on the forum.

[wenxina]

Previews usually pop up closer to the date of release. Unless I'm wrong, about 2 weeks prior to the release is a safe bet. Sometimes earlier, sometimes later.

[Rebecca]

"How hasn't Dawn been mature?" I can think of a few instances.

*Splashing Xander when he was asking an honest (and pertinent) question.
*Not telling ANYONE what really happened for a real long while, including Willow "she's like a mom to me" Rosenberg; like Buffy in S3 not telling anyone (including father-figure Giles) Angel was cured before she 'killed' him.
*Running away from Xander when he called her whiny

Sure, she's not "get out, Get Out!, GET OUT!!!" Dawn anymore, and she is arguably dealing with A LOT right now, but she's not "the most mature member of the scoobies," who ironically seems to be Xander atm.

I don't see her metamorphoses as punishment for her crime of cheating, but rather consequences of it. There is a difference. But the most important thing about Dawn's storyline is how she will grow from it, as most storylines go.

[Nicholas]

I really dont think that we can just sit back and think that Buffy is letting Dawn be this way. There has to be a motive to it that we are not aware of, because in the Buffyverse, NO ONE would just let her be that way. Xander would have been all over Buffy trying to get her back to normal as well as Willow, as well as Buffy herself. Not for a second do I think Buffy is just ignoring her. I think Buffy knows that she can just let Dawn go out to college right now, considering there are people out there and ways of finding out that she is the Slayers sister, so she would potentially be a target. But now, not only is she close to home, but she has the abilities to keep herself safe. Buffy is letting it go on long, in my opinion, because she cares.

[seryna]

There are truly fantastic theories in here. I know I lurk far more than I should, but I must say- well thought out theories on Twilight's identity, Dawn's transformations and my favorite- Xawn.

I admit, I would be a fan of Xawn- if its done properly. I don't want Xander and Cordelia's relationship: drawn together by lust and shared life and death battles- for Dawn and xander. It's been established that Dawn is no longer an innocent 15 year old- she has faced down death (in Season 7:Chosen she fought by Xander's side and through out the comics she and Xander battled together). She has lost her virginity. With it, she took the Summers coming of age of hell- for Buffy, it was Angelus, for Dawn, its Thricewise metamorphosis.

Regarding Buffy's feelings on Xander dating her sister, Buffy obviously trusts Xander with her sister. It was he who was supposed to smuggle Dawn to safety in S7 (and yes, it was Dawn who drove them back to the fight). I am sure that it may take some adjustment, but it could develop and I suspect she'd be fine with it. Buffy was fine when she heard about Willow and Xander's love affair and no one is close to her than those two at that time.

Xander wouldn't be Dawn's 'first' boyfriend or 'first' in bed, which would have been over the top. He can be the man she realizes she's always wanted. I'm still hoping that Xander won't be in a relationship yet- after the death of his last two loves, I'd think he'd want to ensure its a solid base before throwing his heart back into the fire.

Regarding Buffy and Dawn, I believe that Buffy has neglected Dawn. In the S8 comic, it seems to make a bit of sense at first. Buffy has even more on her plate now that she's thinking globally and not just in Sunnydale.
However, I see a lot of the same themes from the show in S8- no Halfrek showing up with 'Every where I went, I heard her screaming- and none of you even noticed', but a great deal of Xander prodding Buffy to take an interest.

When Buffy did go to the Mountain (of Dawn), she only seemed to emphasize that Dawn wasn't following The Plan of college, like any Summers child or Sunnydale Alumni for that matter has such a mundane fate awaiting them. Dawn is obviously wanting in on the fight. She drove herself (and Xander) back in S7 and has battled tooth (and hoof) to stay. Personally, I think she's bound to find her own niche in the Slayer HQ.
Heck, she'd be a great counselor to ensure no more Simones & Faiths- and she was shaping up to be quit the Watcher Jr.

[Tyler Austin "tiewashere"]

I wants a preview!

[tms]

Apr 22, 2009 18:44:45 GMT -5 Tyler Austin "tiewashere" said:

I wants a preview!

Yes!!! lol

[Paul]

Apr 9, 2009 13:06:03 GMT -5 Rebecca said:

"How hasn't Dawn been mature?" I can think of a few instances.

*Splashing Xander when he was asking an honest (and pertinent) question.
*Not telling ANYONE what really happened for a real long while, including Willow "she's like a mom to me" Rosenberg; like Buffy in S3 not telling anyone (including father-figure Giles) Angel was cured before she 'killed' him.
*Running away from Xander when he called her whiny

Sure, she's not "get out, Get Out!, GET OUT!!!" Dawn anymore, and she is arguably dealing with A LOT right now, but she's not "the most mature member of the scoobies," who ironically seems to be Xander atm.

I don't see her metamorphoses as punishment for her crime of cheating, but rather consequences of it. There is a difference. But the most important thing about Dawn's storyline is how she will grow from it, as most storylines go.

Compare current Dawn to the other Scoobies when they were her age though (around season 3 or 4) and Dawn's a lot more mature than they were. I agree that Xander is the most mature Scoobie overall though, and has been since season 7.

Apr 9, 2009 14:49:37 GMT -5 Nicholas said:

I really dont think that we can just sit back and think that Buffy is letting Dawn be this way. There has to be a motive to it that we are not aware of, because in the Buffyverse, NO ONE would just let her be that way. Xander would have been all over Buffy trying to get her back to normal as well as Willow, as well as Buffy herself. Not for a second do I think Buffy is just ignoring her. I think Buffy knows that she can just let Dawn go out to college right now, considering there are people out there and ways of finding out that she is the Slayers sister, so she would potentially be a target. But now, not only is she close to home, but she has the abilities to keep herself safe. Buffy is letting it go on long, in my opinion, because she cares.

Sorry, but that sounds like fanwank to me. If there's been any evidence of that in the series, I've missed it. I think Buffy is letting Dawn stay the way she is because, with all that's going on, she's just not that big a priority.