Little stuff that bugged you.

[tkts]

I think Kennedy, Annabelle and Molly can be forgiven for being a little disoriented and scattered, though, so it's plausible for them not to pick up on Buffy's passing reference. Jet lag combined with the recent discovery that something's trying to kill you can do that.

[jtmaster13]

Maybe this is just me, but when Kennedy and Rona and even wood to a certain extent when they all gang up on Buffy in Empty Places. The three of them I thought had no say in the matter. That whole intervention should have been the scoobies only I felt

[Paul]

Sept 27, 2010 13:04:20 GMT -5 jtmaster13 said:

Maybe this is just me, but when Kennedy and Rona and even wood to a certain extent when they all gang up on Buffy in Empty Places. The three of them I thought had no say in the matter. That whole intervention should have been the scoobies only I felt

Why? Because they're minor character that you have less or no emotional attachment to? They're still members of Buffy's army and are putting their lives at risk just as much as the Scoobies. They have a right to voice their opinion.

Maybe it's because they had the stones to stand up to Buffy that they ended up running their own Slayer squads in Season Eight.

---

On a different note, it bugs me that Buffy makes no effort whatsoever to slay Drusilla (or Harmony for that matter) in "Crush". If I rememeber correct, she just sits there while Drusilla drifts away. This is the vampire who killed Buffy's fellow Slayer, not to mention several innocent people in that same episode, and would go on to kill who knows how many more. Not Buffy's most professional moment, Slayer-wise.

[iigreenii]

I feel the only people who should've had any say so in putting together a plan are the one's who have been there longer. The one's who have more experience. The one's who have been up against something bigger than just vampires. Wood isn't that experience outside of slaying common vampires. He would lose going up against vampires like Angel or Spike <--which he did. Kennedy & Rona had even less experience then Wood, yet they continuously felt the need to give an opinion. They weren't even there long, yet they decided Faith would make a better leader than Buffy. That decision alone is enough to prove that everyone shouldn't have a say so in what happens and how things should be planned out. They were rookies lecturing pros on how to do things. So annoying.

[Paul]

Oct 1, 2010 15:01:09 GMT -5 @iigreenii said:

I feel the only people who should've had any say so in putting together a plan are the one's who have been there longer. The one's who have more experience. The one's who have been up against something bigger than just vampires. Wood isn't that experience outside of slaying common vampires. He would lose going up against vampires like Angel or Spike <--which he did. Kennedy & Rona had even less experience then Wood, yet they continuously felt the need to give an opinion. They weren't even there long, yet they decided Faith would make a better leader than Buffy. That decision alone is enough to prove that everyone shouldn't have a say so in what happens and how things should be planned out. They were rookies lecturing pros on how to do things. So annoying.

Did Buffy have much experience of her own in the early seasons? No, not any more than Wood or Kennedy. Yet she still followed her own instinct, voiced her own opinion, and refused to follow the orders of the Watchers' Council. She did things her way.

People continually complain about Kennedy's "attitude problem" but the truth is her attitude is pretty similar to Buffy's. Sorry, but "shut up and take orders" isn't the right attitude to have in the Buffyverse; look at Riley's arc in season 4.

[iigreenii]

Buffy had no choice but to follow her own instincts. She did things her way because she was the leader of a newly formed group. That was the role she was given. Once she turned 18 she no longer needed a watcher so I don't see why she would need to take orders from the council. It's not like they were any help to begin with. She had more experience by the end of Season 1 after killing the Master than Wood, Rona & Kennedy combined (in my opinion). They were newbies coming into a group that was already formed & had been fighting demons for years before they had gotten there. The ones with more experience & have been there longer should have a say so in what happens. They've earned that right. See what happened when everyone decided to voice their opinion in Touched? No one could get a word in and Faith ended up having to shut Kennedy up--& Kennedy's attitude was one of the things that made me go from liking her character to disliking her.

Also I don't recall Buffy having a shut up and take orders attitude in Empty Places. I even remember her saying she would take suggestions after coming up with the plan. In Get It Done she told them to fall in line which is similar to what Faith told them in Touched. It doesn't mean they won't take suggestions. It just means that they're the leader, therefore they make the rules. There can only be one leader in a group. Anymore than that causes conflict. With Buffy everyone knew why they were taking orders from her. I can't say the same for The Initiative/Riley. My opinions are based pre Season 8.Once I read the comics my opinions may change completely.

EDITED:You may be right on them having a similar attitude. I have to go back and watch Season 1&2. I guess the difference for me is Buffy was a Slayer/Leader and Kennedy was potential,yet she acted as if she was already a Slayer. As if she was somehow above the other potentials. That's one of the things that bugged me about her.

[Paul]

Oct 1, 2010 22:19:07 GMT -5 @iigreenii said:

Buffy had no choice but to follow her own instincts. She did things her way because she was the leader of a newly formed group. That was the role she was given. Once she turned 18 she no longer needed a watcher so I don't see why she would need to take orders from the council. It's not like they were any help to begin with. She had more experience by the end of Season 1 after killing the Master than Wood, Rona & Kennedy combined (in my opinion). They were newbies coming into a group that was already formed & had been fighting demons for years before they had gotten there. The ones with more experience & have been there longer should have a say so in what happens. They've earned that right. See what happened when everyone decided to voice their opinion in Touched? No one could get a word in and Faith ended up having to shut Kennedy up--& Kennedy's attitude was one of the things that made me go from liking her character to disliking her.

Also I don't recall Buffy having a shut up and take orders attitude in Empty Places. I even remember her saying she would take suggestions after coming up with the plan. In Get It Done she told them to fall in line which is similar to what Faith told them in Touched. It doesn't mean they won't take suggestions. It just means that they're the leader, therefore they make the rules. There can only be one leader in a group. Anymore than that causes conflict. With Buffy everyone knew why they were taking orders from her. I can't say the same for The Initiative/Riley. My opinions are based pre Season 8.Once I read the comics my opinions may change completely.

EDITED:You may be right on them having a similar attitude. I have to go back and watch Season 1&2. I guess the difference for me is Buffy was a Slayer/Leader and Kennedy was potential,yet she acted as if she was already a Slayer. As if she was somehow above the other potentials. That's one of the things that bugged me about her.

It's true that there has to be one leader but that doesn't mean that Wood, Kennedy, and Rona have to be mindless drones forbidden from voicing their opinion. Faith was right to shut Kennedy down, but that doesn't mean Kennedy was wrong for speaking in the first place. And you talk about Buffy having earned the right to lead, but from their perspective, she had just led them into a suicide mission that resulted in the deaths of their friends. Why would they trust her implicitly? They weren't there in previous seasons to see how capable Buffy is.

I never said Buffy had a "shut up and take orders" attitude, I'm saying that Kennedy etc shouldn't be expected to have that attitude. Riley and Forrest were mindlessly loyal and obediant and look where that got them...

Kennedy is above the other Potentials. She's the only one of them who acts like a Slayer. And when she does become a Slayer, she's f***ing kick-ass, taking down UberVamps with her bare hands. Why should she act all meek and subserviant?

[iigreenii]

I was talking about the other Scoobies when I said they've earned the right to voice their opinions first. I understand that everyone wanted to but that causes way to much chaos & you barely get anything done. Esp when there's a large number of people.

Kennedy: "I just wonder if those of us who’ve been here longer
should have more of a say."

Xander: "You know, I'm thinking that everyone here shouldn't have a say."


If only Kennedy would take her own advice. She wasn't there long. I disagree that she was above the other potentials. Acting like a Slayer doesn't make her one. Her opinion mattered no more than the other potential's opinion.

I agree about Riley and Forrest but they were following the Initiative & didn't even know why. The Scoobies & potentials have never been in the dark about anything. They knew exactly why they were following Buffy/Faith and even agreed to go each time. They were never forced to go along with any plan. If they didn't like the plan or didn't feel safe going they could have stayed behind.

EDIT:Was it in the comics where Kennedy is fighting the Ubervamps with her bare-hands? I'm saving up now to buy them all at once so I can't wait . I hear she's alright in S8.

[midwesternwatcher]

Season 8 is coming out in these collected volumes right now. They're cheaper per page, and more convenient to read. If you can wait.

Now a little thing that bugged me ... it's probably very simple, but in Smashed, about 22 minutes in, Spike barges into the Trio's lair. First of all, how did he know who they were and that they could help him? I suppose he heard something at one of his kitten poker games, have to take that on faith. I guess. But how did he come in uninvited? Wasn't that in Warren's home?

[Scarygothgirl]

^they knew who he was so maybe he;d been there before?

[nl197]

Spike was at Warren's home in season 5 when he had the BuffyBot created.

[Scarygothgirl]

^very true, it never occurred to me that that was the same house.

[nl197]

It was from the episode "I Was Made To Love You", which ended with Buffy finding her mother on the sofa. If I remember correctly, after Katrina walked out on Warren Spike showed up with a box full of pictures and other um...things belonging to Buffy and demanded that a robot be made.

[Randi Giles]

So, I was watching 'Him' last night. Can someone please tell me why when they get to suicidal Dawn that Willow, Buffy, Spike and Xander all get out of the car on the same side? It may not be a big deal to most, but it really bugs the hell out of me every time I watch it. I thought I would have gotten over it by now. Nope!

[tkts]

Whoa, you're right! I never noticed that. Even Buffy, who was in the passenger seat and would have had to climb over the center console (assuming Xander's car has one).

Could there be something blocking them on the right side? I don't see anything, but it is dark. Maybe Xander parked next to a wall?

[jtmaster13]

Oct 2, 2010 15:45:25 GMT -5 midwesternwatcher said:

Season 8 is coming out in these collected volumes right now. They're cheaper per page, and more convenient to read. If you can wait.

Now a little thing that bugged me ... it's probably very simple, but in Smashed, about 22 minutes in, Spike barges into the Trio's lair. First of all, how did he know who they were and that they could help him? I suppose he heard something at one of his kitten poker games, have to take that on faith. I guess. But how did he come in uninvited? Wasn't that in Warren's home?

Warren's mother invited him in back in season 5 at the end of "I Was Made to Love You"

[Paul]

Oct 2, 2010 9:57:52 GMT -5 @iigreenii said:

EDIT:Was it in the comics where Kennedy is fighting the Ubervamps with her bare-hands? I'm saving up now to buy them all at once so I can't wait . I hear she's alright in S8.

In "Chosen", she throws the Scythe to Buffy and then proceeds to fight the Turok-Han unarmed and confidant.

"I could get used to this."

Kennedy is awesome, love her! ;D

[tkts]

Oct 4, 2010 19:15:50 GMT -5 Paul said:

Oct 2, 2010 9:57:52 GMT -5 @iigreenii said:

EDIT:Was it in the comics where Kennedy is fighting the Ubervamps with her bare-hands? I'm saving up now to buy them all at once so I can't wait . I hear she's alright in S8.

In "Chosen", she throws the Scythe to Buffy and then proceeds to fight the Turok-Han unarmed and confidant.

"I could get used to this."

Kennedy is awesome, love her! ;D

This probably belongs in the "unpopular opinions" thread, but I agree. Nothing can diminish my love for the character of Tara, but Kennedy is pretty damn cool.

[Josh]

I don't know if this has been mentioned or not because this thread is pretty massive, but I just noticed for the first time today watching "The Initiative" that Spike shouldn't have been able to harm the scientists when he was escaping if he already had his chip. XD Noticing that was a huge WTF to me and has been buggng me now.

[henzINNIT]

It could be that the chip was activated remotely after Spike escaped...