passionbuffy
Innocent Bystander
"I'm so evil and... skanky. And I think I'm kinda gay."[Mo0:28]
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Post by passionbuffy on May 14, 2009 12:31:44 GMT -5
My theory about why Topher made Claire hates him :
What if the first doctor Saunders and him were lovers...
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Whedon Fan
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Post by Whedon Fan on May 14, 2009 15:26:25 GMT -5
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Post by Midnight Butterfly on May 14, 2009 17:40:07 GMT -5
^ I also thought that.
I thought that they new each other in the past and Topher is the reason why she is there.
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Mer
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Post by Mer on May 14, 2009 18:34:11 GMT -5
I LOVED this episode. Reading all the responses makes want to look at the episode again. It's totally worth it.
I thought Topher and Saunders hated each other b/c they creeped each other out. I mean, first interaction with both of them first season creeped me out a bit. XD
Of course it could be sexual tension or guilt. *shrugs*
Oh well. I'm sure our answer will be resolved if they give us another episodes *is hoping*
Does anybody find it weird that Saunders episode 1 interaction with Topher managed to creep me out and NOT Alan's antics?
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Post by Wyndam on May 14, 2009 20:24:06 GMT -5
Pretty sure the only reason Topher made Claire hate him, is because he felt guilty about what happened with Alpha, and her face.
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Post by hitnrun017 on May 14, 2009 21:18:22 GMT -5
Pretty sure the only reason Topher made Claire hate him, is because he felt guilty about what happened with Alpha, and her face. That's mostly what I think too. I think he feels sort of disgusted with himself for imprinting her with with the real Dr. Saunders. With the other Actives it's different: imprint them, they go on an engagement and then wipe them. With Whiskey she is just this one person, for all we know it could be permanent, just doing the same thing over and over in the same place. |
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spurtyknowledge
Rogue Demon Hunter
I'm wired to the world.
"She told them that the only grace they could have was the grace they could imagine."[Mo0:25]
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Post by spurtyknowledge on May 16, 2009 8:40:32 GMT -5
My theory about why Topher made Claire hates him : What if the first doctor Saunders and him were lovers... Dr. Saunders was well in his 70's at least!  |
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Post by Midnight Butterfly on May 16, 2009 10:52:18 GMT -5
My theory about why Topher made Claire hates him : What if the first doctor Saunders and him were lovers... Dr. Saunders was well in his 70's at least! I know. Topher is way too young and cute for him ;D |
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Post by Emmie on May 16, 2009 11:32:42 GMT -5
My theory about why Topher made Claire hates him : What if the first doctor Saunders and him were lovers... Dr. Saunders was well in his 70's at least! He wasn't in his 70's. People look really old by that point and often have trouble moving around. The guy was probably in his fifties or possibly early 60's. |
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Post by Rebecca on May 16, 2009 12:47:17 GMT -5
Still, not a fun visual.
:hurl:
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Post by Emmie on May 16, 2009 12:59:18 GMT -5
LMAO I wasn't saying that I think the real Dr. Saunders and Topher were okay because he wasn't 70. I was just saying that he wasn't 70.
Still find that whole thing to be funny that people are wondering if this slashiness was a real possibility.
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Post by Rebecca on May 16, 2009 14:55:31 GMT -5
I for one never considered that 'ship as a possibility. I think it far more likely (even if doubtful) that Topher and Whiskey knew each other prior to her being a doll.
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Joe
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Obsessive Paranoid Boob
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Post by Joe on May 17, 2009 8:09:43 GMT -5
I for one never considered that 'ship as a possibility. I think it far more likely (even if doubtful) that Topher and Whiskey knew each other prior to her being a doll. This may be very far-fetched... but what if they were siblings... or even twins? That would be cool to see why Topher let that happen to his sister. |
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Nicholas
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Post by Nicholas on May 17, 2009 22:44:56 GMT -5
Pretty sure the only reason Topher made Claire hate him, is because he felt guilty about what happened with Alpha, and her face. Thats actually what I thought, so thats what I am going to go with, well at least until we get an actual explanation in Season 2. Why was Topher wearing a suit when Alpha went crazy the first time? |
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BuffyFanOne
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Post by BuffyFanOne on May 20, 2009 11:23:42 GMT -5
i think that topher and whiskey knew eachother before the dollhouse began. i think when topher developed the technology to swap brains, perhaps whiskey was his first test subject. perhaps he ruined her origional personality and that is why he designed her to hate... because he hates hinself...
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Post by Midnight Butterfly on May 20, 2009 12:52:54 GMT -5
i think that topher and whiskey knew eachother before the dollhouse began. i think when topher developed the technology to swap brains, perhaps whiskey was his first test subject. perhaps he ruined her origional personality and that is why he designed her to hate... because he hates hinself... Yep, thats what I thought too. Although it could also be something very simple lol ;D |
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antoniofjm
Novice Witch
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Post by antoniofjm on Jun 6, 2009 19:08:26 GMT -5
I love your theory BuffyFanOne but hasn't the Dollhouse been since the 60's-80's I think the reporter said in 106.
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Post by wytchcroft on Jul 12, 2009 17:06:53 GMT -5
I love your theory BuffyFanOne but hasn't the Dollhouse been since the 60's-80's I think the reporter said in 106. in Man on the Street, the reporter says that RUMOURS of a Dollhouse have sprung up since the 'late 80s'. |
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Post by joxerlives on Apr 16, 2010 5:23:10 GMT -5
OMEGA
The good;
Got to say I didn't see the Whiskey twist (is that a drink?) coming at all. Utterly brilliant, this storyline lifts the series up and helps it go off on a high. Such a dumb gag but it always makes me laugh out loud when Alpha 'watches his step'.
The bad;
How stupid must the Dollhouse be to use criminals as Dolls? Although wouldn't it be wonderful if we could reprogramme paedophiles and psychopaths so they were no longer either?
Best line;
Packing heat; both Boyd and Ballard (the latter switching to a Colt 45 for some reason) plus November and Sierra
Echo;6
Boyd; 8
Dominic; 8
Sierra; 4
Victor; 2
Ballard; 9
November; 1
Echo kissage;2
Kinky dinky;
Lovely though she is I never really thought of Amy Acker as turn-your-head-gorgeous in the same way as Eliza Dushku, Charisma Carpenter, Sarah Michelle Gellar, (they tried to make her into AI's glamourpuss in season 5 but it didn't really work which is why we got more Mercedes McNab as Harmony who IS turn your head gorgeous),but here she is a revelation, I was firmly convinced that it was Eliza doing the slinky dance to Roy Orbison's dreams but WOW! Also Echo's push up bra and Daisy Duke denim short-shorts as part of her white trash princess look. Bounty hunter Sierra seems to have an instant attraction for Ballard.
Notches on the Dollhouse bedpost;
Echo; 3 definite, 1 possible
November; 1
Ballard; 1
Victor; 1
Adele; 1
Sierra 1 possible
Topher; 1 possible
How'd they get away with that?
Killing the girl implanted with Caroline's memories is hideous. Alpha's idea of kidnapping a string of girls, implanting them with Carolines' memories and then killing her over and over again is too horrifying for words. Meeting 'Alpha's' first victim is also very disturbing but not half as much as his bloody rampage in the Dollhouse, especially how he kills his handler. He also refers to Crystal being a 'woman at 13'.
This weeks fantasy;
Sierra and November are bounty hunters, Echo is Crystal and her composite personalities
Total number personalitites;
Echo; 21
Sierra; 10
Victor; 6
November; 3
Total dolls; add some Whiskey to the mix! Plus Quebec, the soldier from Needs
9-Echo, Sierra, November, Victor, Mike, Tango, Alpha, Whiskey, Quebec
Addy is a bit British;
Topher is a bit geeky;
He refers to Solyent Green (Angel also a Charlton Heston fan)
Subverting the Hollywood cliche;
Bondage;
Sierra tied up; 1
Ballard; 1
Knocked out;
Echo; 2
November; 1
Sierra; 1
Victor; 1
Topher; 1
Kills; poor Wendy is killed by Alpha
Sierra; 2 kills
Echo; 1
November;1
Dolls injured;
Echo winged by Alpha's bullet.
Capt subtext;
We finally learn November's real name and she is released from her contract (love Adele's very genuine hug for her). I guess whatever was between her and Ballard was quite real for him to pick her over Caroline? The heartbreaking scene where Dr Saunders tells Victor he's broken and no one will want him any more hardly needs explaining (thankfully the lollipop scene makes up for it). Why did Topher programme Dr Saunders to hate him? Perhaps because of his own self-loathing? Or did the original Saunders already hate him?
Happy hookers
Know the face?
7 Whedon alumni-Mark Shepherd, Amy Acker, walking action figure, Eliza Dushku, Jim Piddock, Gregg Henry, Alan Tudyk
Guantanamo;
Fanfic;
Missing scenes;.
Very important, if you have the DVDs be sure to watch them to find out what happened to bounty hunters Sierra and November and how Alpha got away.
Reminds me off;
Echo/Crystal and Alpha/Bobby on the run are very Badlands/True Romance/Bonnie and Clyde. But above all they remind me of Spike and Dru whom Angel once described as "Bonnie and Clyde if they had 100 years to get it right" The idea of violent prisoners being 'cured' by brainwashing sounds a bit 'A Clockwork Orange'? Ponder the fact that this series has a character called Ballard (and indeed Dawn was reading 'Empire of the Sun' for school in the later seasons of Buffy). Alpha digs out the tracker on the back of Echo's neck much like Dark Angel. Caroline refers to Return of the Living dead as Xander did in Buffy. Topher talks of souls in jars which may be an Angel ref. Alpha's madness is similar to Glory whilst the way he kills his handler is reminiscent of Buffy killing Gnarl in season 7. The track 'Dreams' which Whiskey dances to is also used to good effect in Blue Velvet.
Breaking the programming;
Echo as a conglomerate of her personalities breaks away from Alpha's crackers plan, possibly because most of her imprints (Margaret from Haunted, the Dominatrix, Esther from True Believer etc) were good people mixed with her base personality of Caroline. By contrast most of Alpha's imprints were bad people mixed with his underlying personality of a psychopath.
Questions and observations;
Ballard's plan to get rid of the bomb squad is truly inspired. Interestingly despite the bad blood between them Tanaka doesn't arrest him. Great double bluff, we think that Caroline is being let go but actually it's November whose real name is Madeline Costly. More episodes like this and Dollhouse would be a far superior series to what it was.
Marks out of 10; 9/10 really good
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Post by henzINNIT on Apr 17, 2010 12:21:06 GMT -5
Kind of a disappointing capper for some reason. In both season Dollhouse hits big with a twist in the penultimate but doesn't quite deliver afterward (although Hollow Men is far worse). The Whiskey and Alpha flashbacks are great, Echo's awakening is also good. My problemis with the climax, where Alpha suddenly looses his balls and runs (quite slowly) like a chicken. The following "chase" is a really weak sequence, poorly paced and really inconclusive. Seeing the deleted segments on the DVD explains why it appeared to have holes, but doesn't explain why it had them. Had to mention this... You write "Reminds me off" and I think you mean "Of"  |
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