commandercool
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
DON'T PANIC![Mo0:37]
Posts: 744
|
Post by commandercool on Mar 13, 2008 8:45:36 GMT -5
Clown College? You can't eat that!
|
|
|
Post by Emmie on Apr 9, 2008 14:22:20 GMT -5
I feel like it has strayed from it's original concept, which isn't exactly a bad thing, but in some instances it is. hitnrun017 how do you feel Season 8 it has strayed from its original concept? this is interesting to me because i've been thinking about this for a while
|
|
postitnote
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
Dr. Erin
Willow Rox my Sox Off!
Posts: 639
|
Post by postitnote on Apr 9, 2008 14:34:09 GMT -5
Season 8 sticks with Joss's original motto about the show: "Nothing is at it seems." That has definitely not changed in season 8, so I don't see how people argue that it's lost that Joss and Buffy touch.
|
|
|
Post by hitnrun017 on Apr 9, 2008 14:54:17 GMT -5
I feel like it has strayed from it's original concept, which isn't exactly a bad thing, but in some instances it is. hitnrun017 how do you feel Season 8 it has strayed from its original concept? this is interesting to me because i've been thinking about this for a while I think I sort of worded it wrong. It's not that it's strayed, it's just how different it is. All the high-techy stuff and soldier outfits. Also things like Buffy robbing banks and stuff. In Season 6, Willow was criticized BIG time for mis-using magic, especially when she wiped Tara's mind, but in Season 8, they wiped people's minds, the guards from A Beautiful Sunset, without blinking an eye. It's not that these are bad things for the series, I can see how they are helping the story progress, how nothing is the same anymore, but a big part of me just misses how things use to be.
|
|
|
Post by wenxina on Apr 9, 2008 15:25:05 GMT -5
It's change. You'll get over it. Just like moving apartments... think about all the new places the furniture can go, all the new carpet your dog can pee on, all the new neighbours to piss off...
|
|
|
Post by hitnrun017 on Apr 9, 2008 15:34:22 GMT -5
I hope I will soon. I'm enjoying Season 8 and it seems to be really picking up. The last 3 issues have been amazing, hopefully it stays that way.
|
|
|
Post by Rebecca on Apr 9, 2008 15:43:35 GMT -5
hitnrun017 how do you feel Season 8 it has strayed from its original concept? this is interesting to me because i've been thinking about this for a while I think I sort of worded it wrong. It's not that it's strayed, it's just how different it is. All the high-techy stuff and soldier outfits. Also things like Buffy robbing banks and stuff. In Season 6, Willow was criticized BIG time for mis-using magic, especially when she wiped Tara's mind, but in Season 8, they wiped people's minds, the guards from A Beautiful Sunset, without blinking an eye. It's not that these are bad things for the series, I can see how they are helping the story progress, how nothing is the same anymore, but a big part of me just misses how things use to be. I think you make a really good point. We see Buffy changing, in a not-so-great way and because we love her, we want her to get to the right path. I don't think Joss is doing this accidentally, there are too many things going on that connect Buffy's lonliness and estrangement with her new-found ways. Also, I think Joss picked up on this note to resolve that tension built in S7. I mean she was KICKED OUT OF HER OWN HOME and she comes back and everyone's like "ok". That's gotta leave some scarring. They need to work through that, and granted, hard to do if Giles and Will are all avoid-ey. I do have hope that things will get better. We're only a third of the way through this season. Better days will come
|
|
|
Post by Emmie on Apr 9, 2008 15:57:31 GMT -5
Thinking about the non-resolution of Buffy getting kicked out of her house and then everything is just fine n dandy - it makes me glad that there is distance still for Buffy with Willow and Giles. Them making up in End of Days and Chosen just felt so incredibly fake. I hope they have a knock-down drag-out fight so that they can make up again for REAL this time. Then there'll be scooby goodness.
|
|
Enisy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 643
|
Post by Enisy on Apr 9, 2008 16:01:42 GMT -5
Re: Empty Places:
Jane Espenson: The moment that was supposed to sell her actually leaving the house was her saying "If I'm not going to be the leader, I can't stay here to watch somebody else being the leader, because I think you're making a mistake", and I'm not sure if in the editing that got a hit. Drew Greenberg: I agree with you, I'm not sure that it was necessarily in there. I think that certainly was what we were going for. Jane Espenson: I mean, I was listening for it and I heard it, but I remember thinking "Gee, I hope America got that", because that was the reasoning that got her out the door. Drew Greenberg: Yeah, it's not just her being kicked out, it's also her walking out. It was a little bit of a combo.
|
|
|
Post by Rebecca on Apr 9, 2008 16:05:38 GMT -5
Re: Empty Places: Jane Espenson: The moment that was supposed to sell her actually leaving the house was her saying "If I'm not going to be the leader, I can't stay here to watch somebody else being the leader, because I think you're making a mistake", and I'm not sure if in the editing that got a hit. Drew Greenberg: I agree with you, I'm not sure that it was necessarily in there. I think that certainly was what we were going for. Jane Espenson: I mean, I was listening for it and I heard it, but I remember thinking "Gee, I hope America got that", because that was the reasoning that got her out the door. Drew Greenberg: Yeah, it's not just her being kicked out, it's also her walking out. It was a little bit of a combo. Thanks for that, I don't remember hearing that commentary before, although I remember that line (or something like it) in the episode. still... unresolved tension!!
|
|
|
Post by gunsandsmoke on Apr 9, 2008 16:18:57 GMT -5
I'll just say it! I'm a blind Joss follower! Haha. I love season 8! I love ATF! When I get my comics in the mail and I see that brown envelop I get a feeling of joy. My girlfriend and I get on the couch, open that bad boy (or bad girl) up and just soak whatever Joss feels fit to tell. We never think "Oh I don't like where this story is going!" How the hell could we?! We are on issue #13!! Just take a deep breath. Everything is going to be okay. Joss knows his characters better than anyone. Try not to over criticize and just be happy we get new material.
|
|
alycat7
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
I don't wanna be this good looking and athletic. We all have crosses to bear - Spike[Mo0:4]
Posts: 752
|
Post by alycat7 on Apr 9, 2008 16:23:13 GMT -5
I'll just say it! I'm a blind Joss follower! Haha. I love season 8! I love ATF! When I get my comics in the mail and I see that brown envelop I get a feeling of joy. My girlfriend and I get on the couch, open that bad boy (or bad girl) up and just soak whatever Joss feels fit to tell. We never think "Oh I don't like where this story is going!" How the hell could we?! We are on issue #13!! Just take a deep breath. Everything is going to be okay. Joss knows his characters better than anyone. Try not to over criticize and just be happy we get new material. Same here. I will always accept Joss' work just for the fact that he made it. It's true that the content of season 8 is basically nothing. But hey, what else am I gonna do.........i'm a Buffy addict.
|
|
|
Post by Emmie on Apr 9, 2008 16:58:04 GMT -5
Re: Empty Places: Jane Espenson: The moment that was supposed to sell her actually leaving the house was her saying "If I'm not going to be the leader, I can't stay here to watch somebody else being the leader, because I think you're making a mistake", and I'm not sure if in the editing that got a hit. Drew Greenberg: I agree with you, I'm not sure that it was necessarily in there. I think that certainly was what we were going for. Jane Espenson: I mean, I was listening for it and I heard it, but I remember thinking "Gee, I hope America got that", because that was the reasoning that got her out the door. Drew Greenberg: Yeah, it's not just her being kicked out, it's also her walking out. It was a little bit of a combo. That really didn't come across in the episode. The definitive moment was Dawn saying "then you can't be here" and "this is my house too". I always felt like it was dawn who kicked buffy out of the house. That Buffy would have kept fighting for leadership of the group if Dawn hadn't said that.
|
|
Enisy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 643
|
Post by Enisy on Apr 9, 2008 17:01:24 GMT -5
Yeah, the writers were worried that it didn't come across in the episode, too, as evidenced by that interview. It's not the first or the last time a scene that worked fine on paper didn't come out quite right onscreen (you have only to look at the Spike/Harmony sex scene in Season 5 of Angel for another example), but it shouldn't have happened in such a pivotal episode.
|
|
|
Post by Emmie on Apr 9, 2008 17:08:27 GMT -5
Yeah, the writers were worried that it didn't come across in the episode, too, as evidenced by that interview. It's not the first or the last time a scene that worked fine on paper didn't come out quite right onscreen (you have only to look at the Spike/Harmony sex scene in Season 5 of Angel for another example), but it shouldn't have happened in such a pivotal episode. What's this about the Spike/Harmony sex scene in 'Destiny'? I haven't heard yet.
|
|
Enisy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 643
|
Post by Enisy on Apr 9, 2008 17:11:39 GMT -5
Ah, David Fury talks about it in the commentary. He said it was supposed to be about just two people having fun with sex, but the slightly crass way it was filmed and people's investment in Spike/Buffy earned them a backlash from the fandom.
|
|
|
Post by Rebecca on Apr 9, 2008 21:35:02 GMT -5
Re: Empty Places: Jane Espenson: The moment that was supposed to sell her actually leaving the house was her saying "If I'm not going to be the leader, I can't stay here to watch somebody else being the leader, because I think you're making a mistake", and I'm not sure if in the editing that got a hit. Drew Greenberg: I agree with you, I'm not sure that it was necessarily in there. I think that certainly was what we were going for. Jane Espenson: I mean, I was listening for it and I heard it, but I remember thinking "Gee, I hope America got that", because that was the reasoning that got her out the door. Drew Greenberg: Yeah, it's not just her being kicked out, it's also her walking out. It was a little bit of a combo. That really didn't come across in the episode. The definitive moment was Dawn saying "then you can't be here" and "this is my house too". I always felt like it was dawn who kicked buffy out of the house. That Buffy would have kept fighting for leadership of the group if Dawn hadn't said that. I do agree, that in the end, it felt like she was kicked out because she really didn't want to leave. Plus the whole scene with the home owner: Man: [Points shotgun in Buffy's face] Don't move. Get out of my house. Buffy: [Snatches gun] Hey... I thought the place would be empty. I was looking for a place to crash. You know you really should leave. Man: You can't just kick me out of my own house! Buffy: [shrugs] Why not? It's what all the cool kids are doing nowadays. It's not your house. It's not your town. Not anymore.
|
|
|
Post by Emmie on Apr 10, 2008 22:57:37 GMT -5
Try not to over criticize and just be happy we get new material. I think I can be overly critical because I have so much time to think about the issues between each release. For me, its 30 minutes of reading the issue than hours of discussing it - I get to stretch out the fun through speculation and criticism. I'm really not trying to bash anything...if I really didn't like it i wouldn't enjoy talking about it so much! I'm a lover not a hater baby
|
|
|
Post by toxicslayer on Apr 14, 2008 0:52:06 GMT -5
I don't think Joss has lost "it". The stories are just very hit-or-miss, like S4 in a sense. I thought some of the comics were EXCELLENT. "Anywhere But Here" and "The Chain" were two of my faves. Others weren't quite as amazing, but just enjoyable.
It's just the same old arguments over seasons, except over the comics now.
|
|
|
Post by Skytteflickan88 on Apr 14, 2008 5:25:11 GMT -5
First of all, everyone has the right to their own opinion, and if the comics aren't your cup of tea, there's nothing to do about it. We all have different things we like.
But there's few thing (like 98%) of what you've (Pablo's first post) written that I disagree with.
”But what made me start wondering on s.8's quality was Warren's return. Come on, every single Buffy fan would have said that that scumbag was better off dead - there was just nothing left to develop on that character!”
You see, I can never see it like that. Sometimes when watching a movie or tv-show, I think, “That could have been told so much better. It could have been beautiful and dramatic, as if everything in the world is a part of God’s grand plan”. I don’t think Joss cares about was it believeable or not. Unbelievable shit happens in the buffyverse, just like in the real world. Not to say that Joss doesn’t like his drama, but he doesn't seem to write for you to sau ahh, and ohh.
“Not to mention the far-fetched killing of Ethan Rayne and the involvement of that army. It just sounds WAAAAY troo much like Iniative 2.0”
I was sooo happy that he finally got killed. Karma, you’re the best! At first I was a little disapointed tough, about the military, because been there done that, although in a smaller scale. But doesn’t it make sense? All of a sudden there’s an army of slayers. And what are we humans known for? Killing what we don’t understand. We killed the jews, burned witches, the crusades, the muslim jihad. Of course someone(although I did expect the demonworld to do it) had to think “They’re powerful, they must be the root of all evil, kill, kill, kill”.
“It's just a big, fat and overexposed commercial juggernaut to bring back the franchise (and it worked - we had Angel s.6 whithin 6 months from LWH), its just an operation of self-promotion, which has all its power in the nostalgia of Buffy's good ol' times on tv.”
I had no idea that you could read minds. Tell me, what else did you get out of Whedon’s head? Or did he tell you in person that it’s not about the story, it’s about the money? It could be, of course, but let’s not jump to conclusions.
“The stories are just pointless, the keep on putting way too much stuff in each issue, questions, returns, deaths and everything!”
The only have a few pages, they can’t fit all the details and they have to hurry. Besides, who likes predictable? The show hasn't been predictable since... ever.
“Why couldn't they just lay back and write fan-pleasing storylines, with a neat start, middle and ending, packed with old character returning, like After The Fall is doing? That miniseries is 10 times better than Buffy.”
OMG! Have you seen Buffy? It’s not a feel-good-show! It’s a show about comedy, heartacke, loss, death, love and other everyday-stuff. How could you expect the comics to be any different? He’s giving us a world, not a fairytale.
"Going back to my "S.8 is a ripoff" theory, Buffy/Satsu doing the nasty-nasty is just another proof that the comic has never, is and never will go nowhere. Just keep on cashing in thanks to the hype, the shocking storylines and the commercial manoeuvres that will keep the comic high on sales ranks."
Once again, have you read Joss’ mind? How do you know that he’s about the money, not the art?
Okay, that's my rant.
|
|