Joss has lost "it"

[pablo]

Sad to say, but that's it.
I'm really disappointed by Joss's plotline involving Buffy and Satsu.
And what's even sadder is, this makes me realise that season 8 is just another proof that the Buffyverse would have been better off dead with Chosen.

Let me explain this.

Season 8 is something i REALLY, REALLY anticipated, much because i finished watching the seven seasons of Buffy around a week before it would have come out.
So just knowing that there was a continuation, new, canon stories by my God Joss every month, it made me estatic.
And i followed with great involvement the whole Buffy S8 launch, read every article on it, been over and over each issue at least 10 times.

The Long Way Home didn't get me that much. There was just too much, too early and very little was explained. But i though oh what the hell, this season just need some strong storylines to start off from, and i made me like it. And strangely, i was fine with Amy's return, i've always seen her as a great character, really underused.
But what made me start wondering on s.8's quality was Warren's return.
Come on, every single Buffy fan would have said that that scumbag was better off dead - there was just nothing left to develop on that character! His death meant so much to s.6 and that's pretty much what turned s.6 into buffy's greatest season (evil willow and all).
His resurrection sounds as stupid as bringing back Dumbledore on the HP Saga - just pointless, his character has a finite meaning in the saga, and having it back would make some events, or character developements look just lame.
Not to mention the far-fetched killing of Ethan Rayne and the involvement of that army. It just sounds WAAAAY troo much like Iniative 2.0 (which i suspect is a gooood reason to bring back Mr&Mrs Finn).

The Chain was just ok, it didnt grow in me like it should have according to Scott Allie, i didn't see much of a moving storyline in it. I could *feel* Joss's touch in it, but it was too far, and it kinda lost his magic.
It's like when you get back together with an ex-girlfriend, the feelings and everything, it's still there, but you know it wouldn't be good like the first time.

No Future For You is maybe the only arc i would spare. Prolly cos it was not all bent on creating this uber-hype on the season's plot. Tho f°cking Twilight's presence at the end still bugged me.

My point is, every page of the comic has "buffy-season-eight-she's-back-big-mysteries-big-returns-buy-it-joss-writes-it" written all over it.
It's just a big, fat and overexposed commercial juggernaut to bring back the franchise (and it worked - we had Angel s.6 whithin 6 months from LWH), its just an operation of self-promotion, which has all its power in the nostalgia of Buffy's good ol' times on tv.
The stories are just pointless, the keep on putting way too much stuff in each issue, questions, returns, deaths and everything!
It's been a year since it started, and we're just left with more questions! Does LOST never teach anything to these people?!?
That's not the way you treat a fan. that's so not the way to handle a comic book.
Why couldn't they just lay back and write fan-pleasing storylines, with a neat start, middle and ending, packed with old character returning, like After The Fall is doing? That miniseries is 10 times better than Buffy.

Going back to my "S.8 is a ripoff" theory, Buffy/Satsu doing the nasty-nasty is just another proof that the comic has never, is and never will go nowhere.
Just keep on cashing in thanks to the hype, the shocking storylines and the commercial manoeuvres that will keep the comic high on sales ranks.

It'll still keep circling around a few "shockers" like big-bad Twilight (dayum! A supernatural, mysoginist [and probably old acquaintance] and unbeatable enemy that kicks the sh°t out of Buffy! As if i've never seen it! I'd rather having Adam back), keep on adding old character to the storylines (i'm betting my empty wallet that Oz, Cordy, Angel, Anya and even Flutie will come around at least ONCE) and in the end Buffy will sacrifice herself in order to save the world (there goes shocker number 2).
9 years spent reading it, hours and money wasted, for a lame plot? i'll pass.

And again, i just wanna stress it, i ain't against homosexual people (i've got nothing against them, my best friends are and i think they're the best people i know), i just think that's a big commercial ripoff that has no point besides making money.
Another point that could be raised could be why lesbians characters are dealt with in depth, while male gay character are left to bring the comic relief, but that's not my point.

So long, Buffy. I'll always remember 144 fantastic episodes, its a drag you've been turned into such a disappointing franchise.
and what really bothers me is that, as long fans will keep on buying it, Buffy's sales will always be rocketing and make people look at it like a big success, a comic with a fantastic plot and fans' favourite.

Go on now, lock delete do whatever you want to to this rant, or simply start hatemailing.
i don't care, i just wanted people and fans to know that not everybody are crazy on this reinvention of Buffy's franchise.

peace out

[patxshand]

Thankfully, I disagree with everything you've said, except that "After the Fall" is great. It is great, and it's better than Season Eight, but that's no different than what we last saw on television. Angel's last season was its strongest, and Buffy's last was one of its weakest. That being said, Season Eight is amazing storytelling. It's the best season since Buffy's fifth, IMO.

[hitnrun017]

I'm not going to entirely disagree with you. While I am enjoying Season 8, I can't help but feel a LITTLE disappointed. I was just hyping it up so much in my head, that when we finally got it, it wasn't as good as expected. I feel like it has strayed from it's original concept, which isn't exactly a bad thing, but in some instances it is.

The only thing that I HATE about Season 8 was the whole Warren thing. I was amazed when Joss said he forgot about The First taking Warren's form, when all the fans noticed 2 seconds after the preview was released. It also ruined one of the greatest scenes in the series. Hopefully it will be cleared up sometime, now that Joss noticed.

One reason why I think some people feel a little disappointed is the change in medium. Normally I have no problem reading comics, but the fact that this is the OFFICIAL continuation, it makes it harder to read. Obviously that isn't true for everyone. Also the month wait makes it that much harder. Some character aspects have bothered me aswell, I'm still scratching me head about the Buffy/Satsu thing, but I'm waiting for the next few issues to decide completely if I like it or not. What happened with Willow in Anywhere But Here also bothered me a little bit.

I'm sure I will get into it more once the story starts kicking into high gear, which it hasn't so far. I will continue reading and enjoying Season 8, it just hasn't been what I hoped for... yet.

[buffynerd]

I think it was a perfectly valid exploration for Joss to take Buffy on. I mean, hasn't she just been experimenting sexually since day one with vampires? I think that Buffy sleeping with Satsu is just another way for her to explore who she is and, really folks, don't you think sleeping with a human member of the same sex is more realistic (ie. normal) than someone sleeping with the undead? Straight girls sometimes sleep with women, it happens and it's really ok.

[Slayer489]

Season 8 is different for SO many reasons, although in my opinion it's still fantastic storytelling and it's a nice pleasing continuation of the series in my eyes. They are setting up this season as a "they all drift apart" season. It's the repercussions of the seventh season dramas and these issues are being addressed. But by the end of the season, I'm sure all or most of these issues will have been completely resolved. It's the month long waits that make us all go crazy with wanting answers and wanting them all to get along again. That wouldn't be the way Joss wants to tell it. He wants to create drama between the characters and have it be a season theme.

I know that a lot of people aren't happy with the Buffy/Satsu situation. I was the same when I first read it. Although, when I re-read it and had time to think, it makes some sense and I think it's a great and brave thing for Joss to have done. She's not turning gay or anything, it simply happened. One night stands are like that sometimes. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion though, as I have mine. And my opinion is that Season 8 is fantastic!

[pablo]

i aint trying to convert you to a new buff s.8 hate club - nor im denying im going to buy the next issues if it goes back to cool plots, it's just the whole buffy/sastu thing that made me lose my temper.
as i've said before, it's just a rant, as i'm quite the impulsive kinda guy. i just don't like seeing my fav franchise being spoiled that way - its my total devotion for the show that makes me feel so disatisfied with batsu (omg ive just invented the worts shipping name).
and, imma stress it again, IT'S NOT ABOUT SEXUALITY, prejudices against homosexual people. It's SO not.
It's just that <<Buffy turns gay!>> is such a perfect story to relaunch a, mainstream-wise, dead franchise. and in fact LOTS of sites and newspapers picked up the news!
i'd rather have a smaller-scale, less-hyped BtVS s.8 - that focuses on the STORIES, the people, not the events or big shockers! that kinda bullshit should be left to other s°it.

plus, i LOVED tara and willow, and cried when tara died. but that was different - they built up a magnificent love story, regardless the two sexes involved, that really got me.
Here it's just a whiny speech from buffy and then wham we're reading their post-sex chat.
it's just, gross.
just gimme ONE GOOD reason i should stick to this! Joss cmon you can do better than this.
I wouldn't rule this love story if i got to know better satsu, or saw a good developement between the two characters.
it was just an unrequited love, with no reaction from buffy, let alone chemistry btwn the two - and then the next issue pictures buffy in bed with her!
it's just plain, flat-out sensationalism hell-bent on hpying up the new comic. there are TONS of way they could have handled the thing.

IMHO, obviously

[Jinxieman]

I don't mean to disrespect your opinions but all I can say is that your rant is just a string of opinions that, thankfully, I disagree with.

I'm quite enjoying season 8 and I am excited to see where Joss will take it. That is not because I am a blind follower of Joss, it's because I'm enjoying the story he is telling. I hate hearing people say that Joss is just trying to milk more from Buffy or making choices for publicity. Joss makes his decisions based off of where the story and the character go and develop...sometimes that is good and sometimes it doesn't work out as well as even he would like, but I think Season 8 going really well and I for one am enjoying it.

I'm sorry that you are not.

[Wyndam]

If you do not like it then do not read it. It is that simple.

Comics are nothing like television, and there is no way that Buffy in comic form could ever channel what watching a television show each week was like. You have to separate the two and learn to evaluate and interpret each medium in a separate fashion.

So if you don't like the comic, then stop buying the issues, there's not really much more that can be said.

[pablo]

Wyndam, of course i can stop buying the issues, i was just expressing my opinion, the way i see it.
I have already processed the whole tv vs. comics issue, and i really haven't experienced anything like that while "jumping" from one medium to another, with other franchises (hp, sw, lotr). sometimes it felt more natural, course, but this buffy comics don't get me that much.
they may grow in me, one day i'll be their #1 fan, but right now, i'm a bit let down.
that's it.

[Grave]

that is it though!
with no warning i was shocked.... im hoping this is the last thing we see of it IMO. and no if satsu was male, there wouldn't be a problemo lol

[balesthebloody]

I have no problem with Buffy sleeping with women.
She never had any luck with guys so why not change it up a little bit?
If she falls for Satsu then so be it! Love is love. Homosexual or heterosexual. Doesn't matter really. I may not have the same beliefs as gay people but it's not my life, it's theirs. So I don't worry about it. And it sure as hell is not going to turn me away from one of my favorite series of all time just because the main character has had a lesbian encounter. If anything it is going to make me want to read more!

While Season 8 is nothing like the show I still like it. I never thought that it would be like the show. I think that Buffy being in comics has changed things yes, but some things are for the good.This is just icing on the cake for me. I feel like Buffy had a good ending and I was content with it. So yes of course I am not going to be for Buffy as much as I am Angel. Hell I feel like I needed Angel to keep going so I think that is why I like it more. Buffy to me is still going strong and will for at least the rest of the season.

[Grave]

lol that is a good point. never thought of it that way
im slowly warming up to the idea of Buffy+Satsu

[TC]

mikey said:

If Satsu was a male slayer, would people be this outraged? I think not. I think some people are having a little trouble seeing their icon as a bisexual woman. BUFFY?! BISEXUAL!? No way! She's a "normal" girl. Ha!

Actually, people'd like crap their pants because they're so angry. People'd probably bitca about there being a male Slayer! Haha!

[caducus]

I think it's kinda crazy how so many people are reacting, to be fair, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but at the end of the day its Joss Whedons buffyverse and he can do what he wants with it - people do tend to take ownership of the buffy world based on certain factors, but the story has to evolve, things have to happen that shock us, or we'd simply get bored, I really hope that this "event" doesn't lead people to lose faith in Joss or in the buffyworld we know and love

[patrick]

mikey said:

If Satsu was a male slayer, would people be this outraged? I think not. I think some people are having a little trouble seeing their icon as a bisexual woman. BUFFY?! BISEXUAL!? No way! She's a "normal" girl. Ha!

Nail on the head, my friend.

[buffysmglover]

MY RESPONE

I haven't read the issue yet. But I begged HitNRun to text message me what happens and he did, along with a pic of the new not-couple. (By not-couple I mean the couple who aren't for real.). He also said Joss has said Buffy is using Satsu like she used Spike, because of the loneliness we know she feels from issue 11. Every girl that was changed in "Chosen" feels a strong connection to eachother, and Buffy is not a part of that. What I'm hoping to find in this issue or in coming issues is that we're not looking at a one-gendered Spuffy romance (like most here, I am not homophobic. I'm actually accused of being homosexual, which is kind of lame since the people saying that have never gotten to know me.). There needs to be some HUGE mental twist, not physical, that takes the idea of "Oh, it's just more Spuffy, but Spike's a girl" and throws it out the window.

I won't have this issue until Sunday at the earliest. So I won't be able to discuss it intelligently here until next weekend. But I called my shop person today to make sure they had Wolves at the Gate and my second cover to Angel: After the Fall Issue Four and I asked him about it. He said he's read it, and he was very disappointed. But our reasons are seperate. I am in no way disappointed with the decision to have Buffy "experiment" in itself, but I am disappointed that this is being done through comic space. There is not as much room for a story in a comic as there is in a television show, and it's more difficult to connect to readers than it is to viewers. As viewers, we saw the Willow's tears and pain when Tara left. As viewers, we saw Spike's facial expression of emotion after he tries to rape Buffy (I must be in Season Six phase or something.). It is going to take A LOT of INSANELY EXCELLENT WRITING in Season Eight to make me feel the trouble and heartache that may and most likely will come from this relationship the same way I felt seeing Buffy kill Angel in Season Two, or Buffy jumping from the tower in THE GIFT.

But to extend a little further on the comic space issue, We have 28 issues left. How many will take focus on this relationship? It in itself could be an entire arc or two. Spuffy lasted most of a season! As far as I can tell, Season Eight is anything BUT a season. Or we're getting a 23-minute drama once a month. It's a sitcom with out as much comedy, and it takes longer to be fully developed, which hurts the story.

I've been typing for a while now, and I'm not even sure what I've typed. So I'll leave you with that.

[littleshiva]

mikey said:

If Satsu was a male slayer, would people be this outraged? I think not. I think some people are having a little trouble seeing their icon as a bisexual woman. BUFFY?! BISEXUAL!? No way! She's a "normal" girl. Ha!

I would be outraged if Buffy did this with a dude, too. It's just--we hardly know anything about Satsu, we've had little character development with regards to her, Buffy's actions seem incredibly irresponsible, and we've had little to no build-up to this OUTSIDE of the comics. I want things to happen that are directly connected to the 7 years of character development that we've gotten on screen, and so far--no dice. Yes, I know, "over a year has passed since Chosen, etc. etc.," but so far, the only characters who really feel like THEMSELVES are Xander, Andrew, and Faith. Everyone else, and ESPECIALLY Buffy, is acting really weird. I mean, come on...her little bisexual romp aside...robbing banks? Really, Buffster?

Also, I loved Spuffy for what it was, but hasn't Buffy grown beyond that? Didn't Spike teach her that there was more to love than random encounters?

[balesthebloody]

But aren't those things character development? I mean things change..people change. We can't expect everyone to be the same since they left Sunnydale. This slayer operation is new to everyone and I think we are now starting to see the toll it is taking on the team. It is pulling them apart. I mean this isn't the small group of four or five friends that used to meet in a library at the high school anymore. With Season Eight we get to see how the gang has changed since those days. I think that qualifies as character development.

[CowboyGuy]

littleshiva said:

Also, I loved Spuffy for what it was, but hasn't Buffy grown beyond that? Didn't Spike teach her that there was more to love than random encounters?

Therein lies my only gripe about this encounter. To me, this is a re-hash...a step backwards. I'm not looking at Satsu at all...this is about Buffy. She's done this. She has already used someone to feel better.

As far as the experimenting goes, I feel like it could be a stunt. I don't really care. People do experiment...but I'm just wondering why it had to be Buffy?

I'm getting kind of sick of the whole "Woe is me, I'm a slayer, I'm alone and I don't wanna be...I wanna be normal". This has been a theme for the whole damn run, and Buffy needs to get over it already.

[Rebecca]

I agree Buffy has changed a lot since season 7. She's still lonely, but she seems to have lost her moral compass, if you will, and THAT I think will bite her in the end. What's that saying? "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely"? Buffy has absolute power in her scottish castle over a lot of girls. She's said that she feels isolated. Perhaps this power is the root of her moral ambiguity.

This all revolves around Twilight. Everything that Buffy had done "out of character" in this season is because of Willow's spell. It's caused her distance from Giles and Willow, caused her to rob that bank, caused her to sleep with someone that she normally would not have.

At the end of Chosen, I had high hopes that Buffy would finally be at peace with a bunch of slayers out there... she could live a normal life. Instead, Joss had decided to keep Buffy in charge of this vast number of noob-slayers, and it has definately taken it's toll on her character. I think either Buffy will realize she is going down the wrong path or Twilight will do something in the end to end the spell.

In the end, I think Joss knows what he's doing, and I have faith in him.