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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 27, 2010 23:15:12 GMT -5
All I'm saying is, as much as I love season 8, it would be a better season if they'd taken the time and effort to make this vamps issue hang together a bit more logically. Because it just doesn't, and I'm afraid I have to classify it as a flaw. I just can't envision the people of the world reacting to this situation the way that's depicted here, and it's a problem.
"Carpe Noctem" is certainly a step in the right direction, but still not quite enough.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 27, 2010 14:53:25 GMT -5
Obviously, this is far from the first time we've been confronted with a big logic gap in the Buffyverse and told to "just go with it." The difference is the long, long period of time we have to think about it this time. I just can't stop thinking about why the government and police wouldn't look more closely at this phenomenon... a race of demons living among us, feeding on us, and at least sometimes killing us. Not to mention the legions of conspiracy theorists (both crackpot and sane) and bloggers and self-appointed investigators out there, and there should be a very large element of things not adding up here.
Wouldn't parents be objecting to their kids going off and getting bitten in the throat for fun? Wouldn't religious groups have a problem with the glorification of demons?
I know Scott has said these objections probably do exist, but we're not being shown them because they want to emphasize how bad things are for the Slayers PR-wise. Still, I think it would have improved the story a lot to show at least some of the anti-vampire side of things.
Logic problems that we're willing to gloss over in a TV season lasting a few months just don't seem so minor over the course of several years.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 27, 2010 11:56:05 GMT -5
In order for vampires to be perceived as they are right now in this story, the vast majority of vampires would have to be going along with it. The questions are: why would vampires so overwhelmingly go against their basic natures (especially with Slayers in full retreat worldwide)... why does Harmony hold any kind of authority over them... and what about the rest of the world, where her show is presumably not a big pop culture phenomenon?
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 27, 2010 10:55:41 GMT -5
Interesting story, and probably the best attempt yet at making the "tame vamps" storyline plausible... but still doesn't quite succeed.
These are demons, not just hungry bullies. The moment they claw their way out of their graves, the very first thing they do is look for someone to kill and eat. It's hard-wired into them, like Cyn said.
I realize there's a spectrum of vampire personalities, from the demented psychotic butchers to the more subtle ones, like Spike and Harmony.
But I just can't shake the belief that self-gratification through feeding is only half the motive for vampires... it's also the hurting and the killing and the fear.
There should be many, many more vampires like Cyn. Enough to prevent vampires from achieving a reputation as nothing more than exotic prostitutes.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 26, 2010 9:35:57 GMT -5
Any thoughts on the Fray Timeline infection playing into creating this Twilight personification of Angel/Angelus. If Twilight is a future version of Angel, then I think he was "created" sometime before the Frayverse events in ToYL, and that Dark Willow's actions were a response to that.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 25, 2010 13:06:45 GMT -5
At this point, my only idea is that it represents an opening portal.
While that might be relevant to the plot, I don't see why it would be suitable as an insignia, however.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 24, 2010 10:25:43 GMT -5
I really wonder what Buffy & Co. have done with Amy and Warren and the General. I can't imagine Willow was glad to see them, or vice versa.
And didn't Willow used to have the power to read minds when she wanted to? I'd think that would come in mighty handy in this situation to determine whether the Three Stooges are on the level or not. I suppose Amy would have the power to block that mind-reading, but presumably Willow would know she was being blocked and know something was fishy.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 24, 2010 10:15:35 GMT -5
I think Scott Allie has said that none of the characters original to AtS would be appearing in season 8. I don't know if Dark Horse's their license with Fox allows them to use those characters or not. I know that they can use any of the ones who originated in BtVS, so that includes Angel, Spike, Cordelia, Wesley and Harmony. Of those, two have already appeared, one is confirmed to be appearing in the future, and the other two are dead.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 23, 2010 8:42:07 GMT -5
I voted for Willow and Tara, Xena and Gabrielle, Claire Bennet (Heroes), Susan Ivanova (Babylon 5), Emily Fitch (Skins), Thirteen (House), Cara (Legend of the Seeker), and Bette Porter (The L Word).
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 23, 2010 8:26:48 GMT -5
I can't remember... did Angel and Amy ever interact directly on the TV show? If she was the one disguising his voice, then she probably knows what his real voice sounds like. I'm just wondering if she'd recognize it.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 22, 2010 21:39:42 GMT -5
One small point, possibly insignificant: When Twilight forgets Andrew's name, Andrew says "That's the second time... my name is Andrew." But the first time Twi forgot his name (in "Turbulence"), Andrew was supposedly unconscious. Did he actually hear everything Twi said when he was monologuing over their sleeping bodies? Would it matter if he did?
It looks like Twi is going for the classic supervillain endgame: put the hero's friends in some kind of obvious mortal danger, wait for the hero to come to the rescue, then force the final showdown.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 22, 2010 13:24:54 GMT -5
Only 9 more days until we can stop using these damned spoiler tags... It could be that Angel's failure to remember Andrew's name indicates it's been longer for this version of Angel than the 1-2 years since *our* Angel would have last seen him. I'm really, really hoping that this turns out to be a future Angel. His sheer venomous nastiness makes me hope Buffy stakes him without even waiting for whatever greater-goody-goody explanation he might care to vomit up by way of "justifying" his actions. Just dust the bastard... if the world can only be saved through murder and genocide, then it's not worth saving.
I really want to know why Angel keeps addressing these characters as if he expects them to know they're guilty of something.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 22, 2010 11:46:34 GMT -5
So should we assume that Twilight really has fired Amy? "Get rid of" could mean either he got rid of her for good, or temporarily.
Still, I wouldn't think Twilight would just Amy and Warren and the General go, off into the wild, where they could potentially do damage to his big supervillain plot. Still not buying it.
There's obviously a double meaning of "when you get rid of your resident witch, you start to see the truth". I notice that Willow arrived on the scene at almost the same time as Twilight did, and that attempting to take her out of play was Twilight's first act. Is Willow keeping Buffy from seeing some truth that Twilight wants her to see? Is she doing so knowingly or deliberately? Does Willow know more than she's been telling?
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 20, 2010 21:36:32 GMT -5
You know, I do agree that I'm tired of the "straight girl experiments with another girl" story. Which is why I'd rather Buffy realized that she's properly gay and got into a nice, healthy, rewarding relationship with Satsu. They both deserve it.
But I strongly disagree that the storyline has been out of character, cliched, or exploitative.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 20, 2010 15:50:16 GMT -5
Lesbianism can only become "cliched" if you consider it a gimmick that exists only in fiction, rather than an actual lifestyle that people live. Should we eliminate all straight romance from stories as well? They're certainly a HELL of a lot more cliched than gay storylines, which are still a whole lot rarer in the media than they are in real life. I know I'm getting kind of sick of the fact that two people of the opposite sex can't work together on TV without it being expected that they'll wind up in bed together. I think Steed and Emma Peel from "The Avengers" were the last exception to that rule.
I wish Joss would make Buffy a full-fledged lesbian, if for no other reason than to smash the expectation of "only one token gay relationship per story, and only among supporting characters."
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 20, 2010 9:49:10 GMT -5
I'll never understand this fallacy of "Character A has never done B in the past, therefore character A may never do B in the future."
You can't have a story without character evolution.
People who never do anything unexpected or "out of character" aren't people, they're computer programs. Unusually stable computer programs, in fact. Reliable, predictable, and boring.
Buffy being with Satsu is less OOC than Willow hooking up with Tara, really. With Willow we had a girl who was very definitely attracted to boys in seasons 1-3, and fairly quickly shifted to being exclusively attracted to girls. With Buffy we have a character who was obviously attracted to boys, and is now attracted to boys and girls (or at least one specific girl.)
I find it irritating that every time a gay storyline pops up anywhere, certain people instantly dismiss it as "exploitation" regardless of the context or execution. It often seems like backdoor homophobia... "let's save the poor gay people from exploitation by never depicting homosexuality at all."
To dismiss Buffy/Satsu as gratuitous HGOGA is to claim that a) Joss is a bad, amateurish writer; b) he's an exploiter of gay storylines rather than a pioneer of them, and c) he was desperate... which would be an odd claim to make, since season 8 was a top 20 comic at that time and already the best-selling non-Marvel/DC title in the country.
The one thing I find sad about this storyline is that we find ourselves having to define the quality of Buffy's relationships by how cleanly or how messily they fail, not by whether they succeed or not.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 19, 2010 10:26:10 GMT -5
Gay storylines are "tacky" at more or less exactly the same proportion that straight storylines are. Unless of course you belong to the "gay people are icky" camp, in which case there's probably no solution except to actually meet and get to know a few gay people.
Two years later, Buffy and Satsu are still my favorite thing about season 8, I still think she's the one partner who'd be best for Buffy right now if Joss were allowing her any chance at happiness, and I still hold out hope there will be more to it. In fact, she's probably the most compatible partner Buffy has ever had.
We know Buffy is attracted to Satsu emotionally, and we know she's attracted to her physically. We've seen quite a few popular 'ships in the Buffyverse with less of a basis than that.
They've devoted quite a bit of real estate in the comic to this relationship and its fallout, and I certainly hope some kind of story payoff is going to be forthcoming... next season if not this one, should Satsu survive it (crosses fingers). Scott Allie seemed to be under the impression there was more to follow.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 18, 2010 14:45:01 GMT -5
As far as I know, the only change we've been told about for the trade is removing Willow from the scene of people being taken prisoner... removing Giles and the Girl Who Looks Like Dawn would be useful too. They'll probably just re-do that whole panel.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 18, 2010 12:48:03 GMT -5
And Satsu claimed that Andrew was drawing a lasso for Buffy. I guess that was just a wise-ass comment on Satsu's part and she hadn't really seen Andrew?
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 18, 2010 10:40:52 GMT -5
I'm sure this is the main reason for the desire to keep season 9 shorter and smaller in scale. I like the idea being floated that Joss will meet with the arc writers next season "writers' room" style like with the TV show, to really make sure it hangs together as a cohesive story, instead of assignments being doled out by e-mail with lists of plot points to hit.
I don't know why they added the unnecessary complication of Willow's no-teleport spell in the first place. They could have just have assumed that FG&A were captured with the other Slayers... when Twilight recognized them among the prisoners he had Amy teleport them back to his HQ and put them to sleep... and then later AW&G simply teleported into the vicinity of Buffy's hideout to present their sob story.
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