El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Apr 24, 2008 15:30:20 GMT -5
Sexual orientation IS a real thing though. Just because it isn't tangible doesn't mean it isn't real. The classifications of peoples orientations are based on their thoughts and actions. Now you're making my point. The types of sexuality are real only because people have gotten together and agreed on what they are and given meaning to them. A flowerpot is only a flowerpot when someone comes along and says "That's a flowerpot", and then puts some flowers in it. If no one ever does that, then it's just an object with no inherent meaning on its own. Pink is just a color until someone comes along and says, "Oh, look, it's so girlie."
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Apr 24, 2008 15:21:24 GMT -5
Yay! Gavin's getting a little love! ;D I was never trying to say that Gavin was a better, more fully-developed character than Lindsey. But when it comes to which one I enjoy watching more, especially in their scenes with Lilah, it's Gavin, hands-down.
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Apr 24, 2008 15:16:39 GMT -5
Definitely not. You're confusing me now. You're comparing the definitions of gay, straight, and bi to the definitions of colors? One is based on thoughts and actions of human beings, the other is......colors. LOL I'm saying that the three main types of sexuality aren't real things that actually exist, they're ideas and concepts created by human beings. One on hand, you're basing your whole argument of sexuality on what society has decided they are and defined them as, yet you're completely contradicting yourself by saying that society shouldn't define blue and race cars as "boy" things and pink and dolls as "girl" things. I have no problem with either argument on their own, but you can't have it both ways.
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Apr 24, 2008 14:57:23 GMT -5
I'm talking about the dictionary definition. Nothing else. Does that clear it up for you? No, because where else does the dictionary definition come from? The point being that nothing has meaning in and of itself beyond that which people assign to it. A TV remote-control sitting on a table has no meaning or purpose on its own until someone comes along and uses it to change the channel and gives purpose to it. Heterosexuality, bisexuality, and homosexuality aren't real things that exist on their own--they're a collective idea in the minds of human beings. So in referring to them as facts, immutable concepts that can't be changed, you're having to draw on them as things that have been defined by society in a certain way, and then written down as words in a dictionary. Which means you must agree with it. Yet you don't agree with the meaning that that very same society has assigned to the color pink. Isn't that a little hypocritical? Now, does that clear it up for you?
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Apr 24, 2008 14:31:43 GMT -5
1. Again, this seems to be a trend with you, that isn't what I said. I think it's wrong for society as a whole to say what colors mean (pink or blue being made specific genders). What I WOULD be okay with is a society of individuals making their own decisions about things like that. Not forcing children into believing one way or the other, but letting the child gravitate to whatever interests them. Be it blue or pink or dolls or race cars. Okay, then it sounds to me that you're saying something similar to Sartre: that nothing, neither colors nor objects, have any inherent meaning to them beyond that which individuals, or society as a whole, attaches to them. You advocate the individual, think-for-yourself approach of each person attaching their own meaning to things. Fine. It's completely your prerogative to do that. By why does that not apply to sexuality, as well? An orange is an orange because over the millenia we've defined what an orange is, but a definition is--by definition--just a collective idea. Same for sexuality. Heterosexual, bisexual, and homosexual are just ideas, concepts, that have been defined over the years and accepted as truth. You can't cite one thing as fact on the basis that it's been defined as such by society, and then toss that process out the window when that very same society has defined or associated something in a way that you don't happen to like...
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Apr 24, 2008 13:06:15 GMT -5
One can say colors have no inherent meaning, but then nothing has inherent meaning. Meaning is given by people. Meaning is determined by individual and collective interpretation. Without a viewer to attach meaning to something, its meaning would not exist. This is part of the state of consciousness and reflection. Sounds like a pretty good description of the "Firefly" episode "Objects in Space", which Joss wrote after being inspired by Jean-Paul Sartre's "La Nausee" in high school (or was it college?). The idea being that nothing in this world--whether that's a color, or a leaf, or a gun, or whatever--has any meaning beyond that which each of us assign to it. It certainly doesn't make it wrong that we assign those meanings to them.
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Apr 24, 2008 12:18:14 GMT -5
I look at the Amy/Warren thing similar to Dracula. [ok really different, but hear me out] The first episode of the Fifth season starred a "big bad" that had NOTHING to do with the rest of the season, but only hinting at the larger story. I think this is a trend: S3: "Anne" arguably had nothing to do with the rest of the season S4: "The Freshman" Sunday... staked, we see only a glimpse of the Initiative S5: "Buffy vs. Dracula" Drac wasn't staked, and we see Dawn only at the end of the ep S6: "Bargaining 1 & 2" Demon biker gang... nothing to do with the trio, and we see willow going to a dark place for the first time S7: "Lessons" the corporeal spirits.... no explanation, and we only get a taste of what's to come S8: "Long Way Home" Amy/Warren... they take off at the end, barely mentioned again. We only see Twiight's boots at the beginning, and we have the General at the end declaring war. I think Amy and Warren were meant to be just that. The opening episode villains, covering up the actual Big Bad for the majority of the episode. That's a pretty good point. And just because they escaped at the end is no proof that they'll definitely turn up again later on. In another TV show or comic, they absolutely would, but in the Buffy-verse, not necessarily.
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Apr 24, 2008 12:11:48 GMT -5
I should build a wall around this thread and then sell tickets...
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Apr 23, 2008 22:19:29 GMT -5
I think Willow having to face Warren again is genius. Because it's going to force her to face what she did to him. She's going to have to face some consequences. I think she paid it in full with the curse in "Killer In Me". It's time for Warren and Amy to face some consequences. Yeppers. Except as enjoyable as it'd be to see them get their just due, I'd rather we just never see the two of them again. Let them just fade away into marginal character limbo. Willow's already faced what she did to him and owned up to it. Has she gotten off easy for it, relatively speaking? Maybe. Is there more they could do with that story? Probably. Should they? No. That would be taking the overall story backwards instead of moving it forward, and given the limited space of the comics, I'd rather see the story moving forward into new areas than going back over old ones...
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Apr 23, 2008 22:06:27 GMT -5
You see, there I disagree. I have come to terms that Harth is a long shot at being Twilight, however I think Buffy may have significance for him. For those of you who don't know, Harth was endowed with the slayer dreams/memories. Fray is his sister, who got the strength of the slayer. I can see Harth (being inundated with dreams of slayers) becoming obsessed with Buffy as have most men she has encountered. He may not be integral to Buffy's life, but he knows her. Intimately. Imagine, he has all of her memories. He would know more about her than any character we know in the Buffyverse. Just sayin'. I don't think he knows her quite that well--having all of her memories. If that were the case, shouldn't Buffy have the memories of all the slayers that came before her? But she doesn't, hence the research--first the books, then with Spike--she does into the deaths of past slayers in "Fool for Love". I always took it to mean that the Slayer memories were more of a subconscious thing that mostly surfaced in dreams.
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Apr 23, 2008 19:02:47 GMT -5
Are you saying I shouldn't have eaten the yellow snow?
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Apr 23, 2008 18:54:05 GMT -5
The most complaining I hear is about the retcon that occurred with Warren coming back. Joss did see the discontinuity post hoc, and I *believe* said that he forgot about the First using his form to communicate with Andrew. Yeah, the retcon, and the necessity of Warren's long, drawn-out explanation of how he survived (if you have to go to those lengths to explain it, that should be your first clue that it's probably not the greatest idea). But for me, it's also a couple of other reasons: - Warren and Amy were always pretty marginal villains. That was sorta the point with the Trio, the idea of "Are these guys really our Big Bads this year? But they're so lame." I had no urge to see either one of them ever again, so starting out the season with them didn't do a lot to get me excited about S8. It kinda had the feeling of trying too hard to tie the comics to the TV series by bringing back old villains, rather than introducing new ones. - Warren surviving really takes a lot away from what Willow went thru at the end of S6 and in S7. "The Killer in Me" isn't nearly as strong an episode knowing that Willow only thinks she killed a guy, compared to when she actually killed a guy. None of the other characters besides Buffy and Spike got much in the way of character arcs at all in S7, and so that puts a decent-sized dent in what little arc Willow did get that year, and makes S7 feel even weaker than it already was...
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Apr 23, 2008 17:12:38 GMT -5
Great season with a lot of quality episodes, which is probably why the votes are more evenly distributed than the other seasons. Great episodes. I consider it the only season--of either show--that doesn't have a single "bad" episode all the way thru. "Dead Man's Party" and "Gingerbread" are fairly forgettable, but are hardly out-and-out stinkers. S3 of "Angel" comes very close in terms of overall quality, beginning to end. "Provider" is probably in the bottom ten of "Angel" episodes, but otherwise: fantastic season. Oddly, tho, other than "Waiting in the Wings", it doesn't really have any 'standout' eps--just a long string of 'good' ones...
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Apr 23, 2008 15:51:19 GMT -5
But how many flashback episodes have been a waste--on any of Joss's three shows (I'm even throwing "Out of Gas" from "Firefly" in there)? There's always been a point to them, a reason for the flashback that's relevant either to where a particular character is, or will be, in their lives, and is therefore important to the overall story. So to get all snarky about it now, 6 months in advance and claim that it likely won't further the story and will probably be a waste of a month, is very premature, shows almost no faith in Joss, and doesn't hold up when compared to past evidence of previous flashback episodes.
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Apr 23, 2008 14:33:13 GMT -5
*gets popcorn out of microwave, sits down to eat it*
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Apr 23, 2008 14:06:36 GMT -5
You know what would make a fun forum-scavenger-hunt? Go thru all the old posts and try to find the last time mikey agreed with someone about something, with 500 karma points to the winner. (j/k, mikey, that was said all in fun )
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Apr 23, 2008 13:56:34 GMT -5
I have to say, this is probably the geekiest argument on the forum. LOL People fighting over who would be or wouldn't be in the opening credits of a show we'll never see. LOL, true enough. Not quite sure what even motivated me to jump into it, but then again, tho I don't advertise being a geek, I've never denied it, either...
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Apr 23, 2008 13:03:09 GMT -5
I think Willow meant that she had never had sex/an affair in the room they see the curled up Buffy in. The vision they were in wasn't naughty, but since they were visiting each other's naughty, I think Willow was surprised about being in that room, saying that she had never been a bad little witch there. I'm pretty sure that the water-demon/snake lady thing had already happened. +1 When Willow sees the image of Buffy bleeding (and crying?) on the ground in this strange room, she immediately protests that she's never been there, never done anything wrong there. Since she was so ready to speak right up and defend herself about that, I'd think that she'd also do the same about a vision of herself being all naked and naughty with some sort of exotic snake demon creature--"Whoa, hey, I never did that!" But she didn't say a word, which makes me pretty sure it already happened. That, plus the fact that it happened right after the vision of Buffy and the other slayers robbing the bank, which we know has already happened...
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Apr 23, 2008 12:52:00 GMT -5
Right now, 13 issues in, I'd have to say just Buffy, Xander, Willow, and Dawn, with everyone else listed as "guest stars". Giles wasn't in the credits the last two years (as Tony moved home to England and only worked on the show part-time) and his role in S8 so far hasn't been big enough that I'd consider him being back to "series regular" status... yet. Faith and Andrew were never in the opening credits, and so far their roles haven't been big enough this season, either, to deserve inclusion. Satsu and Renee, well, Tara made the credits once in 3 years (and we know how well that turned out ), so tho while both have been fairly major characters so far, they haven't "earned" it yet. Even Angel, Spike, Anya, Riley, and Oz were listed as guest stars for awhile before eventually being added to the credits. But I agree with Wyndam that it's probably still too early to make any real solid judgments--hell, we're still only about a third of the way thru the season so far...
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Apr 23, 2008 1:48:04 GMT -5
My issue isn't the animation. It's the fact that it likely won't further the story and we'll have to wait 2 months for the next REAL issue to come out. I hope I'm wrong though. But some of the best episodes of the show could be described as not really "furthering the story." "The Wish", "Doppelgangland", "Earshot", "Hush", "Restless", "Fool for Love", "Normal Again", "Selfless"... But all (or at least, most) were strong in terms of adding to character depth, and that's where the real strength of the shows always lay, and not with worrying about what the Big Bad plans to do with the Urn of Flabotanum or whatever. I really have no idea what relevance to S8 this high-school story in #20 is going to have, but I'm sure there will be some. They're not just throwing it in there for yucks. Maybe Buffy needs to go back and re-live something from back then to realize something about herself now? I'm not gonna judge it till I've read it...
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