Alternatives to Kennedy

[Skytteflickan88]

^^ Kind of different though. Willow was kind of a mom-figure for Dawn, way more than Xander was a possible brother-figure, so Dawn/Willow would have been more incest like.

[midwesternwatcher]

I agree. Willow doesn't need a romance. But she does need a story line. It could even be about NOT having a romance.

[Randi Giles]

Oct 24, 2010 7:02:54 GMT -5 joxerlives said:

I like the idea of Willow/Xander, I remember there was a lot of speculation that they made love after Xander saved her on the bluff at the end of Grave. I doubt Anya would have gone for it though.

Willow/Dawn would be cool though not to mention a return for Oz. Willow/Buffy of course an old favourite and I personally like Willow/Amanda

I have to wonder where do some o these rumors come from. It wouldn't have even make sense for Willow and Xander to make love after the end of Grave. She had just lost someone who she considered the love of her life among others things that were going on. Personally I never liked that pairing. I think the best storyline for Willow could have been about her recovery. It would have been nice to see how Giles and the coven helped Willow.

[midwesternwatcher]

That would've been good, but wouldn't you want Willow to do something positive, I mean before the final episode?

[astranger]

She still can. After all, becoming a better person doesn't require one to be in a romantic relationship. In fact, I have always thought it better that such growth should come from friends. After all it was friends that opened Willow up to the world, now let it come full circle and have them make her whole again. Its one of the basic themes of the series.

It would be nice if friendship trumped sex for a change.

[Randi Giles]

I actually do think of it as a positive thing. Seeing Willow with Giles(her Dumbledore) and interact with the Coven helping her to become a better witch. I think it would have shown her progression going from a witch to a goddess.

[Jaz ♀♀]

^ Totally, and it would have helped way more with the s8 story line of when we see Willow pretty much goddess-like and powers to match. I remember the first time reading TLWH and thinking "whoa!, how and when did she become this powerful! She can fly!?" I felt like i was missing a major story arc in her life. Willows arc for season 7 would have been better if they (and i'm totally quoting from Randi here) where to have shown her progression going from witch to goddess.

[Randi Giles]

The whole flying thing took me by surprise as well.

[astranger]

I'm not sure how I feel about it either.

Willow used to be my favorite Character until Tara eclipsed her in Season 5 (for me at least), but even then I still liked her as my favorite of the original 4. But during Season 6 I became progressively more alienated to her. And this continued into Seasons 7 and 8. Now I'm not sure I like her anymore.

I think in some ways my hate of Kennedy is part of that, loosing sight of who Willow used to be and what made me like the character in the first place.

[midwesternwatcher]

When I said "do something positive," maybe I didn't phrase that right. Of course it's a positive thing if Willow does better and gets better as a person. But I want to see her do something positive toward helping the group, doing something for somebody else. For instance, she could do something good for Dawn, who has always had problems of her own and is also sidelined for much of S7. Here's a thought: she could do something for Faith, help Faith fit in, maybe we could have a reconciliation of sorts with Faith. Remember when Faith punched Willow in the face, and later Willow told the Scoobies Faith should go to jail? Willow didn't have a lot of mercy in her heart for a sinner, because she had never needed that kind of mercy herself. After S6, she does, so she should be more forgiving with Faith.

I hope I'm clearer now. Maybe I should've said something like "pro-active".

[Skytteflickan88]

Why do people keep calling Willow a goddess? She's a uber-strong witch, nothing more. She's just buds with goddesses or fairies, whatever they are. Nothing that shows she's anything but human. WE can specualte of course, but I've never gotten the need to call her a goddess (sorry if I'm overreacteding, maybe you didn't mean to put so much into that one word).

Oct 24, 2010 17:00:27 GMT -5 astranger said:

It would be nice if friendship trumped sex for a change.

When did that happen? Buffy sleeping with Spike occasionally in season 6?

I might be nitpicking, but you make it sound like it's the sex in the Willow/Kennedy relationship that was the most basic component. I think the friendship in that relationship was stronger than the sexual attraction. Or did you simply mean that romantic relationships got too much room in the show above friendship? Because I can't really agree on that either. The scoobies love for each other always seemed to be so strong, even compared to romantic love.

Oct 24, 2010 20:22:10 GMT -5 midwesternwatcher said:

Willow didn't have a lot of mercy in her heart for a sinner, because she had never needed that kind of mercy herself. After S6, she does, so she should be more forgiving with Faith.

I don't know about that. Remember how easily she accepted Spike into the gang, the guy who had killed lots of people, tried/threatened to kill her best friends, kidnapped her and tried to kill her? True, until season 6, she didn't know that much about being bad, but she never seemed to be a hateful person to bad guys.

I'm of course comparing her to my own, "justice first, second chances never"- attitude in life. If someone punches me, they should go to prison. If someone kills people and start working for a murdered, I think they should fry. So compared to me, she's a saint.

[astranger]

When did that happen? Buffy sleeping with Spike occasionally in season 6?

I might be nitpicking, but you make it sound like it's the sex in the Willow/Kennedy relationship that was the most basic component. I think the friendship in that relationship was stronger than the sexual attraction. Or did you simply mean that romantic relationships got too much room in the show above friendship? Because I can't really agree on that either. The scoobies love for each other always seemed to be so strong, even compared to romantic love.

What I mean is that in the first few seasons the friendship between the core 4 was very strong. As it went on these got somewhat sidelined in favour of romantic involvement. In the 7th series there is quite a bit of this that really shouldn't be there. Not just Willow and Kennedy but also Faith and Wood as well as Xander and Anya neither of which really went anywhere this season.

I just think it would have been better for the show if it focused back on the core four. It would have the nice element of going full circle then and in some ways draw on what make the characters fight evil in the first place.

[Jaz ♀♀]

^ There was a few great moments between the core 4 in s7. One main scene that i can think of is the end of "Same Time, Same Place" when Buffy and Willow are on the bed and Buffy gives her strength (physically and emotionally). That scene beautifully showed their love and friendship for each other.

But i agree with you, I would have loved to have seen more scenes like the above and the writers focusing more on the core four.

[Skytteflickan88]

I guess we can only dream of scenes/moments like the spell in Primeval.

But the reunion scene in Retreat was pretty good. Buffy & Giles crying and everything.

[midwesternwatcher]

"I don't know about that. Remember how easily she accepted Spike into the gang, the guy who had killed lots of people, tried/threatened to kill her best friends, kidnapped her and tried to kill her? True, until season 6, she didn't know that much about being bad, but she never seemed to be a hateful person to bad guys."

Sky, you know I love you, but could you give me more details on this? I don't remember that any of the Scoobies ever accepted Spike into the gang. They just didn't have the heart to kill him when he was helpless. And was Willow more accepting that any of the others? Maybe so, but offhand I can't think of any evidence for that. The one most accepting of Spike would've been Dawn, right?

I'm not saying you're wrong, but if you are, I missed something.

[Randi Giles]

Okay Sky. Goddess like or uber witch. That was the only way I could refer to the way she was in chosen. I guess that's thanks to Kennedy. I hope that's better for you.

midwesternwatcher - Honestly there wasn't much she could do for Dawn, but be that mother type of figure. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but there's not too much of a story that we don't know about.

As far as Faith goes I think they did come to a reconciliation. It just wasn't on screen. It would have been nice to their ride home from LA to Sunnydale.

[midwesternwatcher]

Willow could've helped Dawn understand her nature as the key.

[astranger]

I have a question for you midwesternwatcher. Did you enjoy season 7?

I think that Season 7 is full of good ideas that failed to come through. I have often wondered if disliking season 7 has any impact on how people view Kennedy.

[Josh]

Oct 25, 2010 18:05:53 GMT -5 astranger said:

I have a question for you midwesternwatcher. Did you enjoy season 7?

I think that Season 7 is full of good ideas that failed to come through. I have often wondered if disliking season 7 has any impact on how people view Kennedy.

Well I dislike Kennedy and I actually love Season 7 overall. So she didn't bring it down for me.

[midwesternwatcher]

Oh, I definitely enjoyed S7. But it was clear to me that this was the swan song. It was like the last performance of a play, always both the best and the worst.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought S7 was generally liked, despite all the Kennedy hate. The attitude of astranger above seems to be typical. So I thought. Am I wrong?

I'm not sure just what "good ideas" you have in mind, astranger. Could you go into that a bit more? What opportunities did they miss, exactly?

One idea that occurs to me is to somehow make use of Dawn. Is she really just a teenage girl in S7, despite her odd origin? Or is there still a lot of mystical energy somehow wrapped up in her? Could that energy be used against the First in some way? Or would there be danger that The First would use Dawn against the good guys? It seems to me something could've been done with that. Even if Willow is afraid to use magic, she still knows a lot about it, and she could help Dawn and the others handle problems like that.

The Guardians ... but that's another thread. Gotta keep some focus!